What circular ND 10 stop filter to buy?

[Nancy Moran G]

Thank you for taking the time to help me.
Good links and photos.
Nancy

[William W]

It is most usually best to buy the filter to fit the lens with the LARGEST Filter Thread.
In your case, buy a ɸ77mm Filter (for the Tokina 11 to 16)
Then you buy STEP UP Rings (to use that Filter with the LARGER thread) on the lenses which have a smaller filter thread.
You would need two STEP UP rings if you wanted to use the ɸ77mm filter on your other two lenses:

ɸ52mm to ɸ77mm
and
ɸ 58mm to ɸ77mm

There is often a lot of confusion about are they: “step up rings” or “step down rings”:
I suggest to my students that they look at the camera from the back (as if through the view finder) and then describe the ring from that viewpoint: so if the ring is stepping UP to a LARGER filter it is a “Step Up Ring”.

WW



Footnote:

If one is buying only ONE filter, the reason that it is usually best to buy the (bigger) filter to fit the LARGEST diameter lens thread is so there is less likelihood of an OPTICAL VIGNETTE.

There is still a likelihood of a VIGNETTE when using STEP UP rings. But that is usually only on when used on (very) Wide Angle Lenses.

But it is an not such a usual occurrence to have a (very) Wide Angle Lens with a smaller Filter Diameter than the biggest filter size that one would initially buy to suit other lenses that one already uses.

I do have a couple of examples though: the EF16 to 35 F/2.8 MkII has Filter ɸ82mm
and there are very wide Primes that have a smaller filter size:
> EF24 F/1.4 (filter ɸ77mm)
> EF20 F/2.8 (filter ɸ 72mm)

I am sure that there are more examples.

[Nancy Moran G]

Thank you Bill. I was wondering why it was up/down but in 'reverse' order,
kind of like F stops- bigger #, smaller opening...
Now, if I can figure out my tripod, head choice, I will be happy. I go to NYC in March and was hoping to
Be somewhat familiar with all my new stuf.
Nancy

[William W]

. . . yes aperture and f/numbers can be another brain stretcher when first setting out.

Your (good) "Tripod" will actually be two items: the 'Tripod' and also the 'Head'.

There are many threads here at CiC about selecting the best/most suitable tripod: often you'll find a bargain second hand and it is quite easy to check the condition and stability of a tripod before buying it.

WW

[bobrobert]

I have the Fader ND Vari filter which at wide angle - about 20mm - can only vary by about 2 stops. To get 8 or 9 stops you have to zoom to about 100mm. Does the Singh Ray have the same limitation? The Hoya 77mm Neutral Density NDx400 Filter is a good filter that can focus and expose whilst on the the lens unlike the B&W 10 stop.

[Colin Southern]

I have the Fader ND Vari filter which at wide angle - about 20mm - can only vary by about 2 stops. To get 8 or 9 stops you have to zoom to about 100mm. Does the Singh Ray have the same limitation?

No.

The standard thickness will obstruct at around 22mm on a FF camera and there's a slight increase in cross hatching at extreme angles, but nothing particularly worry some.

I'm afraid that the Fader isn't known for being one of the better ones

[William W]

I use quite a few stand alone (i.e. Single) ND Filters: including the Hoya ND X400 (which is just over 8 stops attenuation).

My technique is to attain sharp focus and then screw on the ND Filter: this is especially so with the X400.

IMO this procedure is best practice and is how I instruct my students: obviously there will be some unusual circumstances where this practice might need to be aborted.

I suppose, mainly to save time and take a shortcut, sometimes I will attain focus with an ND2 or ND4 or an ND8 already on the camera, depending upon the circumstance and the EV of the scene - but with the ND X400 I really like to see the scene accurately through the viewfinder, irrespective of entertaining the argument of whether or not (in theory) the AF of the camera will function accurately.

The viewfinder is very dark with >8 Stops attenuation on the front of the lens - even when framing up a bright beach scene.

When I use varying ND Filters my procedure is to attain sharp focus and then turn the filter to attenuate the light to the desired degree.

WW

[Nancy Moran G]

I am about to order the Singh Ray Vari ND filter and 2 step up rings. I see it has some vignetting on wide angle lenses. I have the
Tokina 11-16 2.8 that I plan on using quite a bit with the filter. Is it going to 'distort' too much on that lens to spend $400 on?

I see the Mor- Slo also. If I buy them both with the standard mount, will they work with same mount on each? Or is there more vignetting because of bigger mount?
Thank you,
Nancy

I have the Nikon D7000

[Colin Southern]

I am about to order the Singh Ray Vari ND filter and 2 step up rings. I see it has some vignetting on wide angle lenses. I have the
Tokina 11-16 2.8 that I plan on using quite a bit with the filter. Is it going to 'distort' too much on that lens to spend $400 on?

I see the Mor- Slo also. If I buy them both with the standard mount, will they work with same mount on each? Or is there more vignetting because of bigger mount?
Thank you,
Nancy

I have the Nikon D7000

Hi Nancy,

You won't get any distortion, but the real concern is the degree of vignetting on an ultra-wide angle lens - especially when you're also using step up rings and (if I'm reading you right) considering stacking a Mor-Slo as well? If that's the case then I suspect (but I don't know) that you'd be well and truly out of "vignetting" area and into "clear and outright obstruction" category.

Couple of things to add to the mix ...

- In my experience, UWA lenses often create more issues than they solve; if you're planning on using a lens that wide regularly then you really need to understand how to get an aggressive/interesting foreground perspective. If you just point them at the horizon you'll end up with pretty boring shots as the field of view is so wide you don't get any detail. They're definitely not a "quick fix" for landscape shots. These days I'm tending to shoot landscape at longer lengths, and getting better results.

- You could eMail Singh-Ray - they're bound to have a better idea as to how well it's likely to work on your lens, although be aware that an integral member of their team (and my primary contact for their blog stories that I contribute) tragically passed away unexpectedly as a result of an accident on ice, so things might be a little "up in the air" there for a week or two (I don't imagine that it'll affect the sales/shipping process though).

Keeping in mind too (just trying to keep expectations realistic) that all filters are just tools -- tools that have a definite learning curve in knowing how to get the results. Things like exposure metering and focusing can be significant challenges with any dark filter - as well as the need for a sturdy tripod. Case in point - with my Riwaka River shots I was focusing at minimum attenuation and then switching to manual focus (which retains the last AF setting unless disturbed) - for metering I worked out that -1EC was needed and I then achieved that by test metering at ISO 800 (30 seconds) and then working backwards to get 4 minutes at ISO 100 (you can't get exposures longer than 30 seconds on most cameras without using bulb mode). And on top of that, I very much had obstruction issues; thankfully, cloning the areas out with Photoshop's content-aware fill makes them a piece of cake with images like this -- but they're still very much a part of the original image. So they can deliver great results that would be difficult to achieve by other means, but they don't necessarily make getting a great shot easy.

Hope this helps.

[Nancy Moran G]

Thank you Colin. Yes, I understand it won't be a 'quick fix' for a better shot and there will be a learning curve.
Singh Ray site mentioned putting the Slo Mo together but understand that's alot of 'darkness' !

We travel in our RV and are near the water alot, including sunrises, sunsets and other beautiful spots that I feel this
Filter will be very advantageous for me. I go to NYC in March and wanted to get skyline photos using this filter, so that is my
Date for now to get it and learn.

YOU ARE NOT going to believe this...we are in Florida about 2 hrs from Ft Myers where I had been able to get some
great Osprey shots that I posted in Dec. We are now inland in a very tiny town.
I looked up SinghRay site for info and guess what!!!??? Their business/plant/distribution is @20 minutes away!
I may go there. If I mention your name, do I get a discount?!

Thanks for all your help.
Nancy

[Colin Southern]

Thank you Colin. Yes, I understand it won't be a 'quick fix' for a better shot and there will be a learning curve.
Singh Ray site mentioned putting the Slo Mo together but understand that's alot of 'darkness' !

A LOT of darkness. To be honest, I'd struggle to find a use for it. My Mor-Slos are 5 stoppers, but I don't use them much; they'd certainly allow shooting at brighter parts of the day, but during those times shadows are hard and there's no colour in sky/water.

We travel in our RV and are near the water alot, including sunrises, sunsets and other beautiful spots that I feel this
Filter will be very advantageous for me. I go to NYC in March and wanted to get skyline photos using this filter, so that is my
Date for now to get it and learn.

If you're shooting into the sunrise (mostly what I do) then it creates an extreme dynamic range requirement (unless the shot is a silhouette). In those situation a GND or Reverse GND filter is more useful. Often ND and GND are needed, but that has it's own set of compromises (although a good work-around is to simply stack and combine multiple shots to simulate a ND filter (eg 32 stacked consecutive shots will give the same motion effect as a single shot with a 5-Stop ND filter.

YOU ARE NOT going to believe this...we are in Florida about 2 hrs from Ft Myers where I had been able to get some
great Osprey shots that I posted in Dec. We are now inland in a very tiny town.
I looked up SinghRay site for info and guess what!!!??? Their business/plant/distribution is @20 minutes away!
I may go there. If I mention your name, do I get a discount?!

You can ask for a discount, but even I don't get one!

If anyone asks, tell them I've already sent in the next blog article that they asked for!

[Saorsa]

Thank you Colin. Yes, I understand it won't be a 'quick fix' for a better shot and there will be a learning curve.
Singh Ray site mentioned putting the Slo Mo together but understand that's alot of 'darkness' !

We travel in our RV and are near the water alot, including sunrises, sunsets and other beautiful spots that I feel this
Filter will be very advantageous for me. I go to NYC in March and wanted to get skyline photos using this filter, so that is my
Date for now to get it and learn.

YOU ARE NOT going to believe this...we are in Florida about 2 hrs from Ft Myers where I had been able to get some
great Osprey shots that I posted in Dec. We are now inland in a very tiny town.
I looked up SinghRay site for info and guess what!!!??? Their business/plant/distribution is @20 minutes away!
I may go there. If I mention your name, do I get a discount?!

Thanks for all your help.
Nancy

One problem with NDs in FL is the wind. I live in Punta Gorda, not far from Arcadia and there is always a breeze moving foliage and sometimes whole trees. I have tried some ND shots in my local park but haven't been happy because everything is moving somewhat.

BTW, Early March will provide you with some fun shooting over there.

[Colin Southern]

One problem with NDs in FL is the wind. I live in Punta Gorda, not far from Arcadia and there is always a breeze moving foliage and sometimes whole trees. I have tried some ND shots in my local park but haven't been happy because everything is moving somewhat.

It's often an issue we just have to work around; case in point, one may need a short/snappy exposure to freeze wind effects and then a long one to get cloud motion - and then combine the two in post-processing. It's not usually a problem providing that there's not movement in the transition zone. I did this (in reverse) with this shot, as the boat motion made the land blurry.

[Nancy Moran G]

Sarosa, Great point on the wind. Thank you for your insight.

Colin, I will forget the Mor Slo for now and look at GND's with my order.
All help, comments always appreciated.
Nancy

[Colin Southern]

Sarosa, Great point on the wind. Thank you for your insight.

Colin, I will forget the Mor Slo for now and look at GND's with my order.
All help, comments always appreciated.
Nancy

If you get any GNDs you'll need a holder too. I'd strongly recommend the 100mm Lee foundation kit, available from B&H.