Crown 2.0

[Kyle]

I built myself a table, bought some foam core, backdrop and gave the bottle pictures another go.
I went over all the advice I received in the last thread. I think my shots have improved but still got a long way to go.

Here's the crown again.
1.

Then I decided to try some glass shots.
2.
3.

I added some water and ice. I think it had a nice effect.
4.
5.

This is my fiancee's perfume. I thought it had an interesting shape. The black thing on the side somewhat ruined the shot I think.
6.

I also tried shots with a white background. Since it's not a full sweep you can see the edge of the table.
7.

I took shots of a few other glasses as well but these are the best ones from the session. I ended up spending nearly a whole day screwing around with the set-up.

All C&C is welcome and much appreciated!

[Shadowman]

Nice series.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Kyle,

You need some feedback from Mike and Terry on these really, but you'll have to make do with me for now

I like the bottle shot, it is good, but could be better, as you acknowledge, one thing that caught my eye were the surface (fabric) ripple in front of the bottle, this may explain why others often shoot such subjects on 'solid' surfaces such as glass or perspex, etc.

The four glass shots all seem to lack exposure (esp. image #3), I'd have expected the bright parts to be brighter.

I like how you got the pink text to 'illuminate' (as if a neon sign) in #6 - you could clone out the 'black thing' to the right of the neck perhaps?

In #7, I see that 'black thing' looks like it is causing more grief by hiding some black text - I wonder now if it might not succumb to mechanical abuse (i.e. removal), at the risk of you receiving some abuse from your fiancée in return

HTH, Dave

[Kaye Leggett]

As Dave says, Mike and Terry are the experts here. I have dabbled in this genre and will again - I can easily while away a day as you have engrossed and having fun - so keep on persevering.

As to the photos, I like the look you have achieved in no 2. the darkness is OK as you have captured the shape of the glass and good lighting. Like Dave, I think 3 is too dark and I'm not sure 4 & 5 work, but can't explain why.

Keep at it.

[Ziggy]

I think you did well. Would like to see a sharper label in the first one.

[Kyle]

Thanks for the comments everyone.
I'm still not 100% on how to handle the post processing on these shots. I think #3 is darker mostly because I believe that's where I was playing around with using the black side of the foam to reflect onto glass.

Dave, I'll definitely have to try rip the black thing off the perfume and see if my lady notices. I highly enjoy the way the pink text on the bottle pops in the photo.

[Mike Buckley]

Just a few quick comments... EDIT: Now that I've finished writing the post, they actually weren't so quick.

#1: Nice colors and composition. The tabletop seems to be a piece of fabric that has a fold in it. Considering either eliminating all folds or making more of them and making them more prominent to ensure that they aren't considered a mistake. There is a white reflection in the bottle just above the top right area of the label. My guess is that that's a direct reflection of a light source. It's a distraction for me. Even so, this image is the best executed one of the lot in my mind.

#2: You just barely maintained the bright outline all the way around. That's a LOT more difficult to do than anyone who hasn't made this style of photo can imagine. There are some reflections in the bottom of the bowl and in the base that appear to be fabric. Wanted reflections are always good but unwanted reflections lessen the quality of the image. I assume those reflections are unwanted. Consider desaturating to monochrome to eliminate the very few bits of color that don't add any value for me to the image. This is one of the very few situations when I recommend desaturating rather than converting using a color filter. That's because the results will be just as good when desaturating, will require less effort and will create a smaller file. The tabletop displays tonal variation on my calibrated monitor when I'm guessing that you wanted no variation.

#3: Good for you for using a color other than white as the bright outline! You lost display of both the front and rear rims in the center unless the viewer takes the time to display the largest version. Even then, it's difficult to discern the rim because there is so much tonal variation in that area of the background. That issue persists throughout all of the background and tabletop.

#4: Refer to my comments about #2 with regard to the bright outline, desaturating and tonal variation especially in the tabletop.

#5: Same as comments about #4.

#6: This is a very difficult subject to photograph and you made it more difficult by deciding to photograph dark opaque letters against a dark background. That's a fundamental mistake for me unless you can produce an image with all of the letters outlined in a bright light (I wouldn't know how to do that). The issue becomes even more complicated by the dark, opaque thing that blocks out some of the letters.

#7: Much, much better than #6 mostly because the subject is complemented more by the bright background and tabletop. Compare your image to this one and you'll have a good idea about improvements to make. This is the kind of subject that it's generally easier to photograph using a series of captures that are combined to get ideal lighting on each of the important areas. I've never photographed such a difficult subject and I don't imagine myself ever being so masochistic. Consider mastering simpler subjects before taking on one this difficult.

[Loose Canon]

I ended up spending nearly a whole day screwing around with the set-up.

Hey Kyle!

I would call that nearly a whole day well spent!

Interesting stuff you got going on here and some nice work!

The Crown bottle looks pretty good to me with one major exception. Unless that is lemonade in the bottle the color is waaaaay off! I’m guessing you hit it too hard with too hard a light. But if a realistic color isn’t a thang, then it looks pretty good otherwise. The label looks good, and the embossing is rendered fairly well.

You are losing the bottleneck to the background. Little separation on one side and almost none on the other. However, if you zoom in tight you will notice some faint highlights on both sides of the neck. Just dodge these in good and the issue is solved.

It was mentioned that some sharpening could be used on the label. If you think this is the case, what I think I would do is apply some local contrast to the label first and then see how that did. Sharpening and contrast enhancement are closely related and I like the contrast option in almost every case, at least to begin. This will make the colors pop more and can be done without over-saturation. If it needs further sharpening from there (and it probably won’t) it would be minimal.

A quickie example of what I’m saying (with the fabric smoothed a bit):



The glasses I wouldn’t feel right commenting on without knowing what your set-up is. #3 looks the best but seems underexposed to me.

The rest have some strange ghosting issues going on and I can’t determine whether it is something going on in post or if it is a lighting issue.

The perfume bottle? Cool! This is a tough shot and you did well with it!

But before I go any further, I’m going to strongly recommend that if you reshoot, you do not remove The Thing. And I would like to comment on the light field shot primarily if that is hokay.

The Thing is a very integral part of this Subject. Without The Thing the subject is changed and for the worse. It is no longer The Subject and is just a clear glass bottle with some text. What I would do instead of taking the easy way out, which anyone can do, is to find how to photograph the very subject that everyone is recommending you change.

To do this you are going to have to find a way of rendering either The Thing as more gray in color, or the lost text as more gray in color. Of these, the best (and hardest) is going to be rendering the text as black and the part of The Thing behind the text as a lighter shade. If you notice The Thing through other areas of the bottle you will notice that It is rendered in other than black in places already. Why? Because The Thing is getting more light in these areas causing it to render lighter.

Now that there is a working Theory on what to do, how does one go about it? I would say there are some options. If you want it in one frame one option might be to try to shoot some light with a very small reflector or possibly even a small mirror, and probably hand held while the shot is taken, from the side The Thing’s on in an effort to shoot some light inside the bottle between the text on the front and The Thing in back. Maybe from the opposite side would work better, or maybe from somewhere else. You would have to experiment but I bet it could be done.

And if it couldn’t use a two shot composite. One with the text showing nicely to composite over a shot with The Thing lit a little more causing it to be a lighter shade. Work the lettering to black as necessary in post over the lighter shaded Thing.

And while I was compositing? I’d have a serious look at compositing the dark field dayglo “sexy” into the light field shot since that lettering came out so cool!

Some other smaller tidbits?

The little tube that runs into the bottle from the spray nozzle is typically removed in perfume shots. Probably best done in post to avoid Lovely and Charming Fiancé hitting you in the head with the bottle when she finds out you removed it at the shoot! I happen know that is not a cheap bottle of perfume!

And?

Were you aware that your happy face is reflecting in the light field shot? This is a definite no-no!

You have some good stuff here Kyle and a good grip on how its done.