Biker Portrait

[KimC]

As I like doing candid portraits, a member of the forum (Bill), suggested I do some street photography. He also suggested I get out of my comfort zone... so that's what I did today. I have to say, I was a little uncomfortable at first just shooting people, but I really started to like it. It made me excited to shoot. Thanks Bill!!! :-)

So, would appreciate your views on how I did? This is just one, I have others (rather extreme ends of the spectrum) that I will post...

ISO 800; 1/2000; F13; 130mm

There was a lot of color in this and I thought B&W looked better.

*** Open for best view ***

[Manfred M]

It's an interesting shot, but frankly I don't love the crop. I find it too tight on the top (too much of the head cut off) and left the handle bars would have been a nice frame. On the other hand, the material on the right does not add anything to the image and could be cropped off.




You're a touch off on your exposure too.

[Shadowman]

Nice clean conversion. You cropped the Harley Davidson logo, blasphemy! Really, the key subject is the biker but also the tattoos.

[Geoff F]

Manfred has already said exactly what I was thinking. With just a fraction more space at the top, and possibly on the left as well, this would have been an excellent shot.

[William W]

Good work.

I bet a Mars Bar that it was difficult to make that first step?

It is a marvelous, huge leap and very good beginning step.

***

Comments on the image as it is displayed:

It is probably a bit too compressed for that Camera Viewpoint.

At Full Profile those Handle Bars are very dominate, releasing the Shutter a second earlier, when he was at about 3/4 Profile would be nicer, I think.

Even so, the Lens seems slightly too long and probably you were a tad too far away - that's life - maybe you were shooting from the other side of the road - probably were as you're in the USA and you folk drive on the RH side of the road.

What's the full frame image look like? (What I mean the whole frame 'as shot' without any cropping?) maybe an even better crop is possible if the shot is wide enough.

I agree that Manfred's tighter crop is better, but arguably it would be better still if ti were a wider shot but slightly shot a little closer and cropped differently. (easy to say now, but the point in stating it is: your camera is so good, technically, that the maxim "shoot wide - crop in post" is a good one to remember.

The B&W conversion lacks a full range of Grey Tones - Manfred's edit has adequately widened that range of Grey Tones.

***

But, moving aside from C&C of THIS PARTICULAR SHOT: The procedure of the shot was not the best suited to the reasons that I encouraged you to try your hand at street work (i.e. I encouraged street work for you to get better, quicker more confident at candid portraiture shot in situ).

This was an opportunity ‘snipe shot’; it is a nice shot, with strong lines and tightly focused composition and good strong elements. But as street work for your "practice" for your Candid Portraiture Work, I suggest that you'll need to get closer; attain and gain rapport; and extract the Subject's Personality using that PROXIMITY - (i.e the perspective created by the camera and lens VIEWPOINT) - AND also use composition of the interesting elements to enhance that.

In this shot, you've stood off and 'viewed' the interesting elements of a scene and then recorded them for us to see, 'from afar', that procedure is not usually the most conducive to creating excellent ‘Candid Portraiture In Situ’. So the message is, the procedure of ‘Practice and Training’ is just as important as the product the practice and training produces.

Yes, I know, that suggestion requires a few more steps which are further outside your comfort zone, but I am extremely confident that you can achieve that.

WW

[IzzieK]

+1 to John for the crop of the logo... As for the technicalities of the shot, this has already been discussed above...

[Mike Buckley]

Great attempt for a first try. Glad to know that you like the process!

My reaction is that the subject is the man's armpit. To change that, I would use Manfred's crop on the right side and I would crop at the bottom about halfway between the motorcycle and the right elbow.

[KimC]

Thank for commenting Manfred. I learned a lot yesterday - #1 that I have to be much quicker; #2 that I have to pay a lot more attention to the background; #3 I need to pay more attention to the other people in the image and what they are doing, and make sure their position is workable.

This one is an example of needing to be faster shooting and adjusting the focal length.

I do like your crop and exposure correction. As B&W is new to me, can you please share how you made that adjustment?

It's an interesting shot, but frankly I don't love the crop. I find it too tight on the top (too much of the head cut off) and left the handle bars would have been a nice frame. On the other hand, the material on the right does not add anything to the image and could be cropped off.

You're a touch off on your exposure too.

[KimC]

Thanks for commenting John. My brother has a Harley so I understand how strong the brand is. This was about the biker and his tats... not the bike.

Nice clean conversion. You cropped the Harley Davidson logo, blasphemy! Really, the key subject is the biker but also the tattoos.

[KimC]

Next time Geoff... ;-) Thanks for commenting.

Manfred has already said exactly what I was thinking. With just a fraction more space at the top, and possibly on the left as well, this would have been an excellent shot.

[KimC]

Thanks Bill -- you get a Mars Bar it was difficult, as it feels a bit invasive to me, but I was oh so happy that I did it as I found it to be a HUGE learning experience.

Yes, I agree about it being compressed. Related to my comment to Manfred about making adjustments quickly. Ideally I would have liked some more room as well. What I posted is pretty much the full image.

Yes, I agree that a 3/4 profile would have been pretty cool. As you suspected, I took this across the street as he was exiting a driveway, so I needed to be super fast, which I was not. I did get some shots of him hanging out on his bike which show 100% of him.

I was working with a mentor who wanted me shooting full frame, no cropping. I do understand with the size of the files on the 810, there is an ability to crop and maintain a decent file size. If I had widened it out, there would have been a lot to play with on this shot. I do have a number where I shot wide and have been playing with the cropping.

I do like Manfred's conversion and I have asked him how he made the adjustment.

As for the other comments -- I captured a rather wide variety of images yesterday. I believe I have a few that get at your point. I will post them later today. I want to be sure I am understanding what you mean. I looked at the image in the link, and the bikers are glancing at you... which creates the connection. Am I understanding that correctly? If so, yes I agree this is further outside my comfort zone as I still remember from yesterday when I caught a glance caught in camera's lens...

Bottom line is I was happy with my first attempt, and very excited about what it taught me. I really believe this is going to help me develop a lot!

I appreciate everyone's support!

Good work.

I bet a Mars Bar that it was difficult to make that first step?

It is a marvelous, huge leap and very good beginning step.

***

Comments on the image as it is displayed:

It is probably a bit too compressed for that Camera Viewpoint.

At Full Profile those Handle Bars are very dominate, releasing the Shutter a second earlier, when he was at about 3/4 Profile would be nicer, I think.

Even so, the Lens seems slightly too long and probably you were a tad too far away - that's life - maybe you were shooting from the other side of the road - probably were as you're in the USA and you folk drive on the RH side of the road.

What's the full frame image look like? (What I mean the whole frame 'as shot' without any cropping?) maybe an even better crop is possible if the shot is wide enough.

I agree that Manfred's tighter crop is better, but arguably it would be better still if ti were a wider shot but slightly shot a little closer and cropped differently. (easy to say now, but the point in stating it is: your camera is so good, technically, that the maxim "shoot wide - crop in post" is a good one to remember.

The B&W conversion lacks a full range of Grey Tones - Manfred's edit has adequately widened that range of Grey Tones.

***

But, moving aside from C&C of THIS PARTICULAR SHOT: The procedure of the shot was not the best suited to the reasons that I encouraged you to try your hand at street work (i.e. I encouraged street work for you to get better, quicker more confident at candid portraiture shot in situ).

This was an opportunity ‘snipe shot’; it is a nice shot, with strong lines and tightly focused composition and good strong elements. But as street work for your "practice" for your Candid Portraiture Work, I suggest that you'll need to get closer; attain and gain rapport; and extract the Subject's Personality using that PROXIMITY - (i.e the perspective created by the camera and lens VIEWPOINT) - AND also use composition of the interesting elements to enhance that.

In this shot, you've stood off and 'viewed' the interesting elements of a scene and then recorded them for us to see, 'from afar', that procedure is not usually the most conducive to creating excellent ‘Candid Portraiture In Situ’. So the message is, the procedure of ‘Practice and Training’ is just as important as the product the practice and training produces.

Yes, I know, that suggestion requires a few more steps which are further outside your comfort zone, but I am extremely confident that you can achieve that.

WW

[KimC]

Thanks for commenting Izzie. I commented to John about the logo.

+1 to John for the crop of the logo... As for the technicalities of the shot, this has already been discussed above...

[KimC]

Thanks Mike. Yes, I do like it, and feel I can gain a lot from it :-) Frankly it invigorated me -- something that has been missing of late :-)

The image does have limitations, so I am going to look thru the others to see which have more to offer.

Great attempt for a first try. Glad to know that you like the process!

My reaction is that the subject is the man's armpit. To change that, I would use Manfred's crop on the right side and I would crop at the bottom about halfway between the motorcycle and the right elbow.

[Manfred M]

Thank for commenting Manfred. I learned a lot yesterday - #1 that I have to be much quicker; #2 that I have to pay a lot more attention to the background; #3 I need to pay more attention to the other people in the image and what they are doing, and make sure their position is workable.

This one is an example of needing to be faster shooting and adjusting the focal length.

I do like your crop and exposure correction. As B&W is new to me, can you please share how you made that adjustment?

Okay Kim; quick lesson in setting white point, black pint and mid point. I've done all the adjustments on Photoshop Cc 2014. You'll have to click on the images to enlarge them to see the slider settings.


1. First of all, this is your origin image that you posted. I used a screen print to capture the image and am showing you screen prints of the image manipulations.




The black point shows a value o 0, the white point a value of 255 and the midpoint value is 1.00

Virtually every B&W photo should have a black point that is black and a white point that is white. The same goes for colour images and this is one of the first things I do when I edit an image.



2. Here I have moved the black point and white point sliders to an area of the histogram where we start seeing significant detail. The new black point of around 11 and the white point with a value of around 199. These points are now defined as being the pure black and pure white points of the image. The image looks cleaner (less muddy) and has some "pop".





3. Now that the black point and white point has been set properly, you can now control the exposure by moving the mid-point slider to the left or to the right. In this example, by moving the slider to 1.2, I've lightened the image, while maintaining my black point and white point.






4. If you want to darken the image, move the mid-point slider to the right; here it is at 0.80

[Mike Buckley]

Kim,

The information that Manfred helpfully provided involves reasonably basic post-processing. If you're not familiar with it, perhaps run it by your mentor so you can make a point of mastering it. This stuff is important for post-processing both color and monochrome images.

[KimC]

I plan to sit down tonight and closely look at the info Manfred provided. I'm not mentoring with anyone currently Mike; Manfred kindly provided a lot of info, so thinking I can figure it out. :-)

Kim,

The information that Manfred helpfully provided involves reasonably basic post-processing. If you're not familiar with it, perhaps run it by your mentor so you can make a point of mastering it. This stuff is important for post-processing both color and monochrome images.

[William W]

. . . Yes, I agree about it being compressed. Related to my comment to Manfred about making adjustments quickly. Ideally I would have liked some more room as well. What I posted is pretty much the full image. Yes, I agree that a 3/4 profile would have been pretty cool. As you suspected, I took this across the street as he was exiting a driveway, so I needed to be super fast, which I was not. I did get some shots of him hanging out on his bike which show 100% of him.

Understood, thanks.

*

I was working with a mentor who wanted me shooting full frame, no cropping.

Understood. That’s a good practice exercise and it has other advantages and hones different skills.

*

I do understand with the size of the files on the 810, there is an ability to crop and maintain a decent I do have a number where I shot wide and have been playing with the cropping.

Good.

*

As for the other comments -- . . . I want to be sure I am understanding what you mean. I looked at the image in the link, and the bikers are glancing at you... which creates the connection. Am I understanding that correctly? If so, yes I agree this is further outside my comfort zone as I still remember from yesterday when I caught a glance caught in camera's lens...

Yes. In my Photograph the two men are looking directly down the camera’s lens: that’s the connection. I had previously wandered over and struck up a conversation and directly asked if I could make their portrait and I asked if they could give me an email address to send them a copy. They both were quite happy for that and I waited until they got into a comfortable pose, which, by way of non-verbal communication, included putting their full riding gear. I sent a copy of the colour JPEG and also a B&W conversion JPEG that night.

I am not suggesting that you do anything that you feel unsafe about.

I am suggesting that you engage the Subjects so that they personally and/ - OR - their predicament or situation engages your camera. My biker image was just an example to act as a counter-example to your shot.

Your biker image would have been ‘more engaging’ if you had nailed it a second before and had him ¾ Profile and more ‘riding into your camera’ – the man would not have needed to be looking at the camera to create that engagement.

Here is an example where the Subject’s situation engages with the camera, and the Subject’s are ‘in their own space’, in that situation. For me to have engaged those women personally would have spoiled the moment. Even after I had made my shot and they had made theirs, they were totally oblivious to me and my camera’s presence – on the other hand, the two bikers were very aware of my camera from the time I got out of my car and began taking photos at that parking area.


Here is another example of where direct personal engagement would have spoiled the shot that I wanted – and it would have woken the kids, which would have been a very dumb thing to do – but the very front on camera viewpoint, looking along the wall and the rectangular composition, I think works, to emphasise the very precise nature that Mum or Dad had when they ‘parked’ their twins just outside the grandstand steps.

I am not suggesting that for every ‘street shot’ you make you need to personally go up and engage the Subject, what I am advising is that, for the purposes of practice and increasing a range of skill levels, it would be beneficial for you to stretch further outside your comfort zone and engage the Subject directly, sometimes: I only mentioned that specifically, because I was very sure that you have never made that step, before.

No-one can practice every skill at once - similarly, you mentioned that your Mentor was keen for you to frame each shot as the finished product – yet, in ignorance of that, I suggested to ‘shoot wide crop in post’. Both techniques have value.

Practice both techniques and hone both to a level of excellence. Simply by practicing both and reviewing the outcomes you will intrinsically learn when and where to use each one to the best advantage to suit any particular shooting scenario.

*

Bottom line is I was happy with my first attempt, and very excited about what it taught me. I really believe this is going to help me develop a lot!

Yes, you should be very happy.

Yes, it has already developed many skills.

WW

[William W]

. . . [Addressed to Manfred] I do like your crop and exposure correction. As B&W is new to me, can you please share how you made that adjustment?

As I previously mentioned I think Manfred’s work on expanding the range of grey-tones is excellent.

Two points that I wanted to make about the B&W conversion.

1. Manfred used the B&W which you had already posted. He was working on a BLACK AND WHITE image expanding and making a nuance to what was a slightly muddy and compressed set of grey-tones which lacked range and contrast.

2. The 'errors' originate in the original conversion to B&W. During that original conversion, there is the opportunity to nuance the various grey-tones as to how each represents colours.

A facsimile is using B&W CONTRAST FILTERS, when shooting with B&W Negative Film.

To be able to nuance where each colour fits into the final GREY TONE range, can have a large impact on the final B&W image.

WW

[KimC]

Bill, thank you for this added information. It's very helpful to not only me, but I'm sure other members as well. I appreciate the examples that you provided.

I believe my latest posting displays this...

Understood, thanks.

I am suggesting that you engage the Subjects so that they personally and/ - OR - their predicament or situation engages your camera. My biker image was just an example to act as a counter-example to your shot.

Your biker image would have been ‘more engaging’ if you had nailed it a second before and had him ¾ Profile and more ‘riding into your camera’ – the man would not have needed to be looking at the camera to create that engagement.

Here is an example where the Subject’s situation engages with the camera, and the Subject’s are ‘in their own space’, in that situation. For me to have engaged those women personally would have spoiled the moment. Even after I had made my shot and they had made theirs, they were totally oblivious to me and my camera’s presence – on the other hand, the two bikers were very aware of my camera from the time I got out of my car and began taking photos at that parking area.


Here is another example of where direct personal engagement would have spoiled the shot that I wanted – and it would have woken the kids, which would have been a very dumb thing to do – but the very front on camera viewpoint, looking along the wall and the rectangular composition, I think works, to emphasise the very precise nature that Mum or Dad had when they ‘parked’ their twins just outside the grandstand steps.

I am not suggesting that for every ‘street shot’ you make you need to personally go up and engage the Subject, what I am advising is that, for the purposes of practice and increasing a range of skill levels, it would be beneficial for you to stretch further outside your comfort zone and engage the Subject directly, sometimes: I only mentioned that specifically, because I was very sure that you have never made that step, before.

No-one can practice every skill at once - similarly, you mentioned that your Mentor was keen for you to frame each shot as the finished product – yet, in ignorance of that, I suggested to ‘shoot wide crop in post’. Both techniques have value.

Practice both techniques and hone both to a level of excellence. Simply by practicing both and reviewing the outcomes you will intrinsically learn when and where to use each one to the best advantage to suit any particular shooting scenario.

WW

[KimC]

Thank you for the added information. Yes, I do understand that the original errors occurred when I converted to B&W. Is there some place I can learn about - "nuance where each colour fits into the final GREY TONE range, can have a large impact on the final B&W image"?

As I previously mentioned I think Manfred’s work on expanding the range of grey-tones is excellent.

Two points that I wanted to make about the B&W conversion.

1. Manfred used the B&W which you had already posted. He was working on a BLACK AND WHITE image expanding and making a nuance to what was a slightly muddy and compressed set of grey-tones which lacked range and contrast.

2. The 'errors' originate in the original conversion to B&W. During that original conversion, there is the opportunity to nuance the various grey-tones as to how each represents colours.

A facsimile is using B&W CONTRAST FILTERS, when shooting with B&W Negative Film.

To be able to nuance where each colour fits into the final GREY TONE range, can have a large impact on the final B&W image.

WW