Sparrows

[Benjy]

Trying to catch these sparrows in flight,any tips would be most helpful....Sony 70-300 G SSM lens,S/Speed 1/640,ISO 1600,F5.6,Manual mode,....d:...

[Texas Dave]

I think I would figure out how to get more light on the subject so that I could turn the speed up and ISO down a bit.

[Dave Humphries]

I agree with Texas Dave - it needs more light, Bernard

I was wondering whether even the on camera flash might be useful at that range (shot at 250mm).

Failing that, could you reflect some light in to this area with a reflector, or, as you may not have one, something else that's say, 2 - 3 feet square and white?

Perhaps even a white bed sheet laid on the ground between camera position and feeder?

[Nicks Pics]

What others have said is true that more light would probably help most, (thinking of a brighter time of day, or less shadowy location, or brighter weather etc.) It's hard to really appreciate how much MORE light there is on a bright day than a dark one. ISO and F. stops can make relatively little difference in brightness compared to having lots more natural light on the subject. Nonetheless, I think most bird photographers would agree that using higher ISO than 1600 is not unusual, and a faster shutter speed than 1/640 is necessary to freeze tiny bird wings. For large birds, you probably need to use 1/1000 at least, for small birds try that, or as fast as you can while maintaining a proper exposure.

I think more light would help you most, as it would allow you to use a fast enough SS. Also, use a higher ISO if necessary, to allow you to use more like 1/1600 shutter speed at least. This would be much more possible with some sunshine. Getting your birds well exposed and frozen under the conditions in your photo may not be very realistic.

Hope this helps!

[Brownbear]

Hi Bernard,

Just to say that I agree with all that you need more light to capture sparrows in flight. If you use only natural light then finding brighter natural light (but not harsh light) will make things much easier... Perhaps you could move your feeder to an area where the light is better in the morning or afternoon?

Those sparrows are small and dark coloured, and small birds are much more difficult to capture sharp focus on while in flight than large birds. (at least for me) During the past year I've learned that some low lighting conditions are just impossible for birds in flight. These days I always check out my exposure to see what my limits will be for shutter speed when my camera ideally is set f4/ ideally maximum ISO 1600 (for a full size image) but sometimes as high as 3200 for my camera (Nikon D 7100). With my Nikon D80 ISO of 800 was my comfortable max, same with my Sony 200.

Next I check to see what shutter speed these settings allow for... If it is a shutter speed of below 800 (hand held, no flash) I move on to something else, or in the case of an Eagle in Flight ( ie; when I'm truly desperate) I'll try for an artistic blurred effect. (still no luck)

Here are some sample images of BIF taken in good light, excepting the duck (foggy morning) All at a focal length of 300 mm, no noise reduction except for the sky surrounding the tree swallow.

I'm not the best at explaining these things but I hope that if you see the shutter speeds and ISOs used in brighter light than you have for your sparrows you will see that even with shutter speeds of 1/800 a second motion blur is seen in the wings... And that with large slower flying birds, faster shutter speeds are needed than 1/640 second, and even faster for smaller birds... (Again assuming low light, no flash, hand held)


Great Big Bird... A pelican, easy to grab focus on...

SS 640 ISO 500 (good light but early morning light, ie not super bright)... Note the motion blur in the wings



Another Pelican... Frozen in action
[B]SS 2000 ISO 900



Tree Swallow (super fast flying)

I pre-focused on the bird before it took flight... Could I have gotten away with a slower shutter speed, yes, but faster shutter speeds are easier to grab focus with.

SS 2500 ISO 1400 (cropped to about 40% of the original size) Noise reduction done on the sky to eliminate speckles.



Duck (photographed in heavy fog/note the motion blur in the wings)

ISO 1600 SS 1/800



PS Hopefully at a glance you can also see how much brighter the scenes in my images are as compared to the locale for your sparrow... ie; blue sky, water, even the fog because the lake water reflects the light yet higher shutter speeds and ISOs are still needed for BIF.

[IzzieK]

Just needs more light, Benjy...maybe you can adjust it in PP??? Otherwise it is a nice shot...

[selig1656]

we learn from our experiences and from others.

[jcuknz]

I am slightly puzzled as to what the light source is ... is it a light lighting up [down] the feeder ? From the shadow on the left bird that is suggested to me.
I think that probably , again from the left hand bird, that the camera is not capable of shooting at 1600 ISO and it would be worth a try to shoot at 400 or 800 ISO and compensate in editing while maintaining the shutter speed. I assume you have a proper editor with the curves tool and preferably layers.
Something which intrigues me is that the head and tail of the right-hand bird looks almost sharp and comes up reasonably in editing but left hand bird doesn't ... so is there a focusing difference in distance between the birds?
With my gear I have a remote cable [50ft EBAY I think]but I have yet to put it to good purpose [ one of those things which I never get around to ] The one time I used it for birds feeding the problem was not seeing what the camera did and I had left my binoculars behind at home ... perhaps not an option to a DSLR user without Live View. But if you can rig up a remote release and have the camera closer [ not using the zoom at maximum length and aperture ] results should be better.

When you cannot use high ISO, as most camera a few years ago, there was the approach of picking the shutter speed needed and while you could not see results on playback in the camera [ like we used to be when shooting film ] wwhen you get to the editor you can lift the dark results with Curves or Levels. Here I used Curves as an adjustment layer and then removed it to bring the feeder back to a reasonable brightness .... so right birdie looks quite good but left birdie is a hopeless case I am afraid.

[Benjy]

Thanks All for most helpful replies,I just can not seem to master BIF,will take on board all advice given,John,no light on feeder,shot taken late afternoon,thanks again will keep on trying,Dave,divorce case if she who must be obeyed catches me with bed sheet spread out the back...

[jamn4ex]

I would move the feeder to a place that gave me the slanting sun of afternoon at my back or to the side slightly to try and produce nice sweet light.

[Benjy]

James,thanks for helpful advice,but this is Scotland I,m afraid,not so much Sun ....

[Brownbear]

I just can not seem to master BIF,will take on board all advice given,

Hi Bernard,

I don't think it is truly possible to master BIF. I'm happy if I manage one nice shot from a days outing. I still haven't captured an image of an Eagle in flight that I love but I intend to keep trying.

What I was hoping to express and show is that you're trying to photograph small birds in flight in dark lighting conditions at a slow shutter speed... On top of that you're try to capture two birds in flight, doubling an almost impossible challenge... Yet you captured nice focus on the bird on the right hand side, with a nice flutter in the wings, so you're getting there.


I looked up the weather in Loch Lomond... Approximately 1340 hours of sunshine per year, about 500 less hours than Vancouver. I wait for sunny or bright overcast days (nice clouds) to head out and photograph birds. Fog works nice, too. (for the backgrounds)

If I had a bird feeder I'd place it in the best light I could find. If it is not possible to move your feeder I wonder if taping a piece of white paper over the dark wood would help?

Here are some links on BIF that I hope you will find helpful and inspirational...

http://www.canadiannaturephotographe...sinflight.html

http://photonaturalist.net/how-to-ph...-in-bad-light/

http://pronaturephotographer.com/201...rds-in-flight/ (David Hemmings images are an inspiration)

I read somewhere that for large birds in flight a SS of 1/1000 is the minimum starting point, and for small BIF 1/2000... I lost that link but it makes sense to me especially for longer focal lengths with no tripod (minimize camera shake, especially in dark conditions) Yes, slower shutter speeds are possible but so much harder to do. Why not practice in brighter light with larger birds like gulls to start with?


Quote from David Hemmings..

Never stop trying!
Even after you become adept as a bird in flight shooter and fully understand and use all the technical features described above, there is still no guarantee you will get fantastic images. Having the tools is all too often not quite enough. Persistence will get you there. Many times I have spent hours and days in the field to get just 3 or 4 top notch images. Keep practicing and never give up!

[Benjy]

Christina,a big thanks for taking the time to give some advice and links re. BIF,your tips are most helpful and I shall take them on board and will keep trying to improve,even though I am not too good I love it and get tons of enjoyment from my Sony A65,camera,Thanks once again to all for help.....PS.1340 hours of Sunshine????

[Brownbear]

Precisely 1374 hours of sunshine according to my research.

http://www.loch-lomond.net/theloch/data.aspx

And sending lots more sunshine your way!


I've seen some lovely

Christina,a big thanks for taking the time to give some advice and links re. BIF,your tips are most helpful and I shall take them on board and will keep trying to improve,even though I am not too good I love it and get tons of enjoyment from my Sony A65,camera,Thanks once again to all for help.....PS.1340 hours of Sunshine????

[Benjy]

Christina, your correct,bright sunshine this morning,yahoo....if you google Vale of Leven website that is where I live a place called Bonhill a Big thanks again for your help....

[Bobobird]

Nice try but...

Firstly I would suggest you take a look at James' thread here
Heres a few birds from nearby my feeders.

Has already been said above but would repeat -

- shutter speed is paramount. For small birds 1/2000 barely cuts it. Your 1/640 was way too slow.
- aperture f5.6 would barely cut it if you are going for multiple birds. It will be a really lucky (lottery ticket buying) day if you can get both or more on the same focal plane. f8 or tighter may just work.
- light now that you don't have here. Either try on a day with better or a different time of day.

Flash - be really careful about that. The chances of getting "steely" eyes is quite high especially from close up. Dave made some good suggestions but personally I think that if you want to improve your bird photography that you should try to get the environment right.

Position - get that feeder out of the shot!

Christina has provided lots of great tips and links.

In a short while we shall see some great results.

And... if you are wondering - no, it is not the equipment. Not yet anyway.

[Bobobird]

@Christina (still cannot get used to Brownbear, though initials would become BB haha).

That quote - good but definitely off by some.

Non-pro BB quote - motivation, dedication, determination, persistence, failure.

Wanting to do something is not the same as must do something. Motivation will drive that.

@Bernard - forget the technicalities but get that ONE great shot asap. That will motivate you more than anything else. Every shot after that will be a failure and that will drive you even more.

I have been doing this for like 2.5 years now and up to today have not been 100% satisfied with any of my shots. So...

[Brownbear]

Hi Bobo,

Great tips, wonderful to see you sharing.

Brown Bear came about from a dream I had about a Brown Bear and her cub and letting me photograph them to my hearts content, super close-up. (The images were spectacular!) So I figured it was good karma, and I did note that the initials were the same as yours, so super good karma. But perhaps not so great karma for my eagles in flight. Anyhow I will keep it until this Fall when I hope to be able to take a trip photograph Grizzlies in the wild.

BB Quote - true and beautifully put!

Bernard...

I agree with Bobo about the feeder. Perhaps if you place it in a tree with nice light the birds will land on a branch nearby - ultimately striving for the same backgrounds as James... Great to hear it's sunny there. Pouring rain here but I'm still sending you sunny days with just the right amount of cloud for nice light.

@Christina (still cannot get used to Brownbear, though initials would become BB haha).

That quote - good but definitely off by some.

Non-pro BB quote - motivation, dedication, determination, persistence, failure.

Wanting to do something is not the same as must do something. Motivation will drive that.

@Bernard - forget the technicalities but get that ONE great shot asap. That will motivate you more than anything else. Every shot after that will be a failure and that will drive you even more.

I have been doing this for like 2.5 years now and up to today have not been 100% satisfied with any of my shots. So...

[Benjy]

BoBo,thanks so much for advice,much appreciated,me too also..BB...Benjy Boyle

[Bobobird]

LOL - and now we have 3 and that is really cool...