Nikon NEF File Corruption or ?

[Stagecoach]

I posted a couple of images today (Christinas DoF Thread) that were screenshots of Nikon NEF files opened in ViewNX and viewing them later I noticed they did not appear as sharp as I would expect and had noticeable artefacts around edges.

Going back to the original NEFs and opening in ViewNX all files showed this anomaly at both normal screen size and enlarged up to 400%. If I opened these NEFs in ACR there was no evidence when enlarging right up to 400% and on then transferring these into PSE also no problems.

Opening the Jpegs in ViewNX there is also no evidence of similar artefacts when enlarging up to 400%.

The problem is also identical with images taken with a different lens.

Here's an enlargement at 400% screenshot of the problem, around tree line and dishes, which is also clearly evident at 100% and screen viewing size.



Does anyone know the reason for this?

Whilst it does not affect my workflow at present I have not yet tested to see what happens if I make adjustments in ViewNX and save as a Tiff. I have only upgraded to ViewNX Ver 2 in the last week and never noted this in Ver 1

Grahame

[Shadowman]

Grahame,

It's been awhile since I've used ViewNX and I remember the program always being a little quirky. I still have one camera that uses that software and it would interact directly with PSE8, meaning I could directly convert images into the editor. Perhaps there is an update for ViewNX that addresses what you are seeing.

[Stagecoach]

Grahame,

It's been awhile since I've used ViewNX and I remember the program always being a little quirky. I still have one camera that uses that software and it would interact directly with PSE8, meaning I could directly convert images into the editor. Perhaps there is an update for ViewNX that addresses what you are seeing.

Thanks John, the version I have just started using is the latest upgrade. To be honest I never really used the original version much but I have found the new one useful where I am wanting to view through a number of images looking at the Exif and it works way faster than the older version.

I have also found with this new version with the images open in it I can transfer directly to PSE where they open first in ACR which could not be done before. It's also a great tool for screen capturing images with all the EXIF and the histogram showing, apart from fuzzy images.

Grahame

[Black Pearl]

Post some examples from the other software because if I'm honest I would expect the shot above to look like that at 400%

[Stagecoach]

Robin

Here is the NEF opened in ACR at 400% and totally normal to me. I have included the much closer power cable which shows the artefacts also in the previous image.



And here opened in ACR then PSE, again I have no concern here.



I understand these are pretty big enlargements but the problem is evident at normal screen size viewing of the entire image to me

Grahame

[ajohnw]

It's rather difficult for me to use ViewNX2 Grahame but I suspect you will get very different results by selecting other tone curves. From what I remember there is a choice of landscape, portrait etc. You'll find that they make a difference to the gradation which to me looks to be the main problem.

There is some info on adding more curves here. and examples of the effects.

http://imagesbyeduardo.com/main/tag/tone-curves/

John
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[Mike Buckley]

I think the difference is probably explained by the fact that ViewNX is reading the proprietary information whereas ACR is emulating it. It's also possible that you've got a setting such as John mentioned or perhaps a sharpening setting either in-camera or in the software that is causing the artifacts.

Having said that, I'm stumped as to why the JPEGs opened in ViewNX don't display the difference. Perhaps the information that is lost in the JPEG just happens to have improved the image but someone would have to go to a considerable extent to sell me on that explanation.

[Stagecoach]

John, Mike

Thanks for the above. I have found that with the NEF displayed in ViewNX showing the artefacts they disappear when I undertake one of either of the following two actions separately;

a) Uncheck the box in the editing panel titled - Auto LateralColor Aberation (is checked by default)
or
b) Check the Auto Red Eye box

These two actions also make the image disappear and reappear and the little box that sais RAW take a few seconds and turn yellow?

Found this purely by luck, looks like I may have a glitch but I'll have another play tomorrow and possibly download another copy.

Grahame

[ajohnw]

If you select neutral picture control I think you will find all problems disappear - there are other settings as well. I found the chromatic corrections worked even on that awful as it turned out lens I bought but I suspect that they wont be perfect at 100%. That needs manual work as lenses vary.

John
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[Black Pearl]

Just a thought - I wonder if VNX is previewing the image or fully rendering it?
If you save the file as a 16bit Tiff and open it in the other software is the image still the same?

[Mike Buckley]

Just a thought - I wonder if VNX is previewing the image or fully rendering it?

Considering that it displays the image differently as a NEF and as a JPEG, that indicates to me that it is rendering the NEF.

[ajohnw]

All I can add is that with the default picture mode the NEF looks nothing like the camera jpg. Odd because it suggest it rendering as per the camera. If you look at the last screen shot I posted in the NEF challenge thread once the picture mode is set correctly all sorts of things are corrected.

John
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[Stagecoach]

John, Robin and Mike,

Thanks the the further ideas, I'll have a further look today and report on anything else I find.

In answer to Robins' question;

If I have the NEF image showing on the screen where I can clearly see this affect/artefacts and use the 'convert file' function and save as a Tiff when this Tiff is opened in PSE the image is fine, showing no sign of the problem.

The Nikon 'Picture Control' settings are set to 'Standard' in ViewNX.

Under the programme 'Options' function the 'Colour Management is set to 'NikonsRGB 4.0.0.3002'

Grahame

[Black Pearl]

So VNX is previewing the file and not fully rendering it until you save it which is what I guessed at.

Odd - it could make processing the image a little difficult if you are relying on what you see but the end result will be ok.

[ajohnw]

So VNX is previewing the file and not fully rendering it until you save it which is what I guessed at.

Odd - it could make processing the image a little difficult if you are relying on what you see but the end result will be ok.

Really odd. I just had a look at 400% and it looks as crap noise wise as in any other package I can use. The neutral profile does make a significant difference to colour and tone though. The others do as well but have the expected effects on the tone at each end.

John
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[Stagecoach]

So VNX is previewing the file and not fully rendering it until you save it which is what I guessed at.

Odd - it could make processing the image a little difficult if you are relying on what you see but the end result will be ok.

Robin you are correct. I have done further diagnosis and it has confirmed that what I was looking at is the 'RAW/NEF' Preview image file on the screen.

When firstly opening the RAW file it is shown in a 'Preview' mode in both the browser and edit functions until you make an edit to it. As soon as you alter anything in the editing function, eg apply redeye, exp, change picture control type etc, the image view then changes to RAW where the artefacts do not show.

This explains the dodgy screen shots as they were showing the lower quality preview images.

Thanks for the help.

Grahame

[Stagecoach]

Really odd. I just had a look at 400% and it looks as crap noise wise as in any other package I can use. The neutral profile does make a significant difference to colour and tone though. The others do as well but have the expected effects on the tone at each end.

John
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John,

Problem solved, as above. Whether this is 'normal' for NX2 I have no idea and never noticed this in the previous version.

As for the artefacts, these were the rubbish that was showing around the edges of anything. As I have never really used NX2 before for editing today I'm going to do an edit in NX2 and save as Jpeg and one with my standard ACR/PSE workflow and compare.

Grahame

[Mike Buckley]

Grahame,

I see that you're using the Nikon D300. I thought sure that model is recent enough that it saves full-size JPEG previews within the RAW file. If it is older than I remember and instead saves smaller previews, that could perhaps be at least part of the explanation.

Let's assume for the moment that the camera does not save full-size previews. Once you edit the RAW file and save the changes using Capture NX2 (not View NX2), a full-size preview will be saved within the RAW file. I believe View NX2 will only save a JPEG preview that is the same size as the preview created by the camera.

[Stagecoach]

Grahame,

I see that you're using the Nikon D300. I thought sure that model is recent enough that it saves full-size JPEG previews within the RAW file. If it is older than I remember and instead saves smaller previews, that could perhaps be at least part of the explanation.

Let's assume for the moment that the camera does not save full-size previews. Once you edit the RAW file and save the changes using Capture NX2 (not View NX2), a full-size preview will be saved within the RAW file. I believe View NX2 will only save a JPEG preview that is the same size as the preview created by the camera.

Mike,

I'll do a test later (have to go out shortly) to confirm your theory in para 1. Firstly for info I always shoot RAW+Jpeg Fine (max size) although only use the RAWs.

Test;

a) Open the Jpeg (4288x2848) from camera in ViewNX2 and expand a certain part to 400% and take a screen capture.
b) Open the NEF from camera in viewNX2 without doing any edit (this is where the artefacts show) and expand the same certain part to 400% and take a screen capture.
c) Compare the two screen captures for 'size' of subject.

If the same size it would suggest the Jpeg embedded in the NEF is same as camera size. If smaller it would suggest the embedded jpeg that shows as the preview when opening the NEF is smaller.

Grahame

[ajohnw]

John,

Problem solved, as above. Whether this is 'normal' for NX2 I have no idea and never noticed this in the previous version.

As for the artefacts, these were the rubbish that was showing around the edges of anything. As I have never really used NX2 before for editing today I'm going to do an edit in NX2 and save as Jpeg and one with my standard ACR/PSE workflow and compare.

Grahame

What you have described is a little like what happens on Linux - screen doesn't update properly. When I have used it I click once on the file thumbnail and then on the edit button at the top of the screen. If I double click the thumbnail a viewer comes up and I can't get out of it.

Be interesting to see if there are colour variations between NX2 and Adobe particularly if there are several shades of white about. From comments elsewhere you will get Nikon colours with NX2, what ever that means.

John
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