Using Live View - Help Needed

[rpcrowe]

Mike writes: "I would simply use auto focus and I would know intuitively that everything would be in focus probably using f/5.6 to f/8 for ideal sharpness."

Yep, me too! I have never worried about focus for landscapes as long as I was in one of the autofocus modes and shooting at from f/5.6 to f/11. Sometimes I think some photographers get too involved and want to control things that may just be O.K. when left in the auto mode...

I say, "Don't fix it unless it's broke" and the autofocus on my Canon DSLR cameras has always served me quite well for landscapes. I have never even considered hyperfocal distance when shooting landscapes...

BTW: If I shot using the LCD as my viewfinder which I almost never do, I would want to use a Hoodman (type) loupe. I like my eye against the camera and I like my viewfinder protected from all ambient light. This is for dual reasons: to protect against glare from the sun and to isolate the image in my vision.

The reason I don't like using the LCD (at arms length) like many people do is that portions of the image are so small that I would have difficulty seeing the composition.

As an example...



In the above image the space between the tree on image left and the border of the image would probably be less than 1/16 inch. The area between the vertical tree stump and the edge of the image might be less than that. These small areas would be very difficult to see and as a result, I would have difficulty framing the shot exactly as I wanted it. The mountain top at image right is another place where the view on the LCD would be too small for me to see it accurately.

The Hoodman (type) loupe would help me frame the image. There are Chinese knock offs of the Hoodman on eBay at very low prices...

[Digital]

Mike writes: "I would simply use auto focus and I would know intuitively that everything would be in focus probably using f/5.6 to f/8 for ideal sharpness."

Yep, me too! I have never worried about focus for landscapes as long as I was in one of the autofocus modes and shooting at from f/5.6 to f/11. Sometimes I think some photographers get too involved and want to control things that may just be O.K. when left in the auto mode...

I say, "Don't fix it unless it's broke" and the autofocus on my Canon DSLR cameras has always served me quite well for landscapes. I have never even considered hyperfocal distance when shooting most landscapes...

I second that motion.


Bruce

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

I just figured it out, and I am embarrassed to say that I was in Movie View Live Mode... Hence my challenges with the Live View mode.

The Live View button the the back of my camera has a switch where one can choose photography or movies. I have never even thought of making a movie or using that feature on my camera.


Please accept my sincere apologies for this. Live view in camera mode is far easier.... I think I made a movie about 3 apples this afternoon. Sorry.

If we don't figure this out, save all your camera settings to a memory card in Slot 1 that has no image files stored on it (Setup Menu >> Save/Load settings). Then revert all of your camera settings to the default settings using the information explained on page 131 of your camera manual. You'll be able to use your memory card in Slot 1 to load your settings that you were using before reverting to the default settings.

[Brownbear]

Thank you for sharing Richard. I guess this means that you don't think it would make a difference to place your focus on one particular part of a scene, say where a leading line is leading to? Simply not necessary because everything is in focus?

Beautiful image!

Mike writes: "I would simply use auto focus and I would know intuitively that everything would be in focus probably using f/5.6 to f/8 for ideal sharpness."

Yep, me too! I have never worried about focus for landscapes as long as I was in one of the autofocus modes and shooting at from f/5.6 to f/11. Sometimes I think some photographers get too involved and want to control things that may just be O.K. when left in the auto mode...

I say, "Don't fix it unless it's broke" and the autofocus on my Canon DSLR cameras has always served me quite well for landscapes. I have never even considered hyperfocal distance when shooting landscapes...

BTW: If I shot using the LCD as my viewfinder which I almost never do, I would want to use a Hoodman (type) loupe. I like my eye against the camera and I like my viewfinder protected from all ambient light. This is for dual reasons: to protect against glare from the sun and to isolate the image in my vision.

The reason I don't like using the LCD (at arms length) like many people do is that portions of the image are so small that I would have difficulty seeing the composition.

As an example...



In the above image the space between the tree on image left and the border of the image would probably be less than 1/16 inch. The area between the vertical tree stump and the edge of the image might be less than that. These small areas would be very difficult to see and as a result, I would have difficulty framing the shot exactly as I wanted it. The mountain top at image right is another place where the view on the LCD would be too small for me to see it accurately.

The Hoodman (type) loupe would help me frame the image. There are Chinese knock offs of the Hoodman on eBay at very low prices...

[ShaneS]

I waited until I got home from work to really take my time reading this thread and then I saw my name being mentioned

For my landscape shots I used auto focus and did not utilized live view. f16 might have been overkill on my part but I am still learning the effect of the various f-stops on depth of field by experimentation.

However, I did experiment with live view while trying my hand at some still life shooting and had some of the same confusion in terms or changing the aperture and shutter speed as Christina. I was not as diligent as her in terms of tackling that at the time (or since) as I had other areas that I was working on. Having read one of the later responses I suspect that I might have been in movie mode as well so I will definitely try it again.

I hate to open a can of worms here but why would you need to be in manual focus mode to effectively use live view to check your depth of field or sharpness of a subject? My thinking would be to leave the camera in auto focus mode (single) and then just pick one of the 39 or so points by moving the little box around and then pressing the shutter down halfway. Is that just a different way to use live view or am I missing something?

[Shadowman]

I waited until I got home from work to really take my time reading this thread and then I saw my name being mentioned

For my landscape shots I used auto focus and did not utilized live view. f16 might have been overkill on my part but I am still learning the effect of the various f-stops on depth of field by experimentation.

However, I did experiment with live view while trying my hand at some still life shooting and had some of the same confusion in terms or changing the aperture and shutter speed as Christina. I was not as diligent as her in terms of tackling that at the time (or since) as I had other areas that I was working on. Having read one of the later responses I suspect that I might have been in movie mode as well so I will definitely try it again.

I hate to open a can of worms here but why would you need to be in manual focus mode to effectively use live view to check your depth of field or sharpness of a subject? My thinking would be to leave the camera in auto focus mode (single) and then just pick one of the 39 or so points by moving the little box around and then pressing the shutter down halfway. Is that just a different way to use live view or am I missing something?

Shane,

It seems that the image Mike was helping Christina with, referenced in the first post, is not included in this thread nor why Christina was having troubles with same image.

[Mike Buckley]

The Live View button the the back of my camera has a switch where one can choose photography or movies.

Considering that I use a D7000 and you use the D7100, my camera probably works the same way. I actually have no idea how to intentionally or accidentally make a movie. Your comment might explain why there is a little red dot in the middle of my Live View switch. Yikes!

I think I made a movie about 3 apples this afternoon.

Put it on YouTube. It will probably go viral.

Now that you have figured out how to focus using Live View and seem to like it, I just want to mention, ahem, that that makes me two for two (Live View and Auto ISO combined with Aperture Priority).

Don't eat any of those three apples. We'll get to the next lesson tomorrow. It's 1:00am local time and I'm gonna go to bed. I'll get back to you tomorrow.

[Mike Buckley]

Shane,

It seems that the image Mike was helping Christina with, referenced in the first post, is not included in this thread

That's okay. Christina and I like talking about Shane when she's not around.

[Mike Buckley]

Psst. Christina! Shane's back. She can see what we're writing about her.

I hate to open a can of worms here but why would you need to be in manual focus mode to effectively use live view to check your depth of field or sharpness of a subject? My thinking would be to leave the camera in auto focus mode (single) and then just pick one of the 39 or so points by moving the little box around and then pressing the shutter down halfway.

You're right that it doesn't matter which focus mode you are using to check for sharpness. However, if you determine that something isn't focused quite right, it might be easier to make the change by focusing manually rather than switching to a different auto focus point and refocusing. That's especially true if you are doing a close-up macro shot with a small depth of field, when there may be no focus point in the part of the image that you want to be tack sharp. Also, I created the exercise for Christina to include manual focusing just so she could get the hang of it and determine for herself whether manual focusing would perhaps be a good fit.

You might want to consider configuring your camera to use 11 focus points rather than 39. Considering the style of photographs you make, 11 are probably sufficient. Regardless of whether you use 11 or 39, only 9 of them are cross points and cross points tend to focus better than the points that are not cross points. If I remember correctly, the two focus points of the 11 points that are not cross points are the points on the extreme left and right, but you should verify that.

[ShaneS]

I can hear you

Thanks for the clarification Mike.

[Mike Buckley]

Richard explained why he would never use the LCD (Live View) while hand holding the camera. If you do use Live View while releasing the shutter whether using a tripod or not, it's imperative that you either hold your hand immediately behind the viewfinder or insert the thingy over the viewfinder that prevents light from getting in it. Otherwise, your exposure may be made incorrectly.

The nice thing about using Live View to shoot in my black makeshift studio is that there is so little light and no light is ever coming from behind the camera. So, I never have to worry about covering up the viewfinder while shooting in Live View in that situation. However, that's far from a typical outdoor shooting situation.

I really am going to bed now...about 40 minutes later than when I first wrote that I would.

[Mike Buckley]

Shane,

Please read again my post that responded to your question. I added some important information about using 11 focus points rather than 39 perhaps after you had already read it. Sorry about that!

[jcuknz]

As I understand the workings of AF the 'c omplete' signal merely means that the camera has found and locked onto a focusd point.... when you have three apples at different distance but all in, or mostly in, the focus box then the camera could have locked on any apple though I believe AF tends to go for the closest subject .... though a DSLR might be a bit more sophisticated in its thinking.

If somewhere in the menus there is the option of changing the size of the focus area it is well worth trying a very small area as my camera lets me do and normally I never have more than one object within the target area.

In making this contribution I have not read past #10 as I find the subject quite amusing as I don't have anything but live view.

I assume that the camera can magnify what is on the LCD and the thought horrifies me as a case of comparing 'mush against mush' which put me off any attempt at manual focusing way back and thanks to the small target area option I simply do not need to.
If I wanted to shoot three apples in a line I would possibly do it in two or three shots and stack them .... I did this the other day looking over the fence at three rather nice copper 'things' at a nearby metal working yard .... four shots ... three tanks and the background building.

I would imagine the same technique could be used for many subjects and I hand held for the exercise.

[Mike Buckley]

As I understand the workings of AF the 'c omplete' signal merely means that the camera has found and locked onto a focusd point.... when you have three apples at different distance but all in, or mostly in, the focus box then the camera could have locked on any apple though I believe AF tends to go for the closest subject .... though a DSLR might be a bit more sophisticated in its thinking.

Shane and I use the same DSLR and Christina uses the corresponding, most recent model that is one generation later than mine and Shane's. There is no need to adjust the size of the focus indicator when using Live View because you can zoom in to more than 100% of the size of the image, thus including smaller and smaller portions of the image within that indicator.

If somewhere in the menus there is the option of changing the size of the focus area it is well worth trying a very small area as my camera lets me do and normally I never have more than one object within the target area.

The only related option in Shane's and my camera is the ability to change the size of the metering area, not the focus area. I don't know about Christina's camera but, as explained above, I don't see any reason to have such an adjustment and would be surprised to learn that there is one.

I assume that the camera can magnify what is on the LCD and the thought horrifies me as a case of comparing 'mush against mush' which put me off any attempt at manual focusing way back and thanks to the small target area option I simply do not need to.

That depends on the type of photography being done. Magnifying the image is ideal for me because it makes it possible to see what is and is not in focus. When I want certain areas out of focus and certain areas in focus, using Live View certainly beats using the depth of field preview because that method allows very little light in, making it very difficult to see the image. Besides, not all cameras have a depth of field preview. Indeed, I don't understand why manufacturers provide a depth of field preview when the camera also provides Live View.

If I wanted to shoot three apples in a line I would possibly do it in two or three shots and stack them

Depending on the focal length, whether the lens is a macro lens, and the distance from the subjects to the camera, that might be the only way to make all parts of all three of them in focus. On the other hand, depending on those factors, it may be possible to get all three of them in focus using just one capture.

[Mike Buckley]

using 11 focus points rather than 39

Hmmmmmmmmm. I just now discovered that I have been using 39 when I thought I had configured the camera to using 11. I actually rarely use anything other than the center focus point, so that would explain why I was unaware of this and have probably not been affected by any focus issues when using a point that is not a cross point.

[Mike Buckley]

Shane,

Now that it is morning and I am thinking more clearly than at the late hour of my previous posts, I need to revisit the topic you brought up.

why would you need to be in manual focus mode to effectively use live view to check your depth of field or sharpness of a subject? My thinking would be to leave the camera in auto focus mode (single) and then just pick one of the 39 or so points by moving the little box around and then pressing the shutter down halfway.

While the camera is in Live View, there are no 39 focus points. Instead, you use the multi-selector dial to move the red focusing box in any direction. It moves continuously rather than skipping over areas as do the focus points. To be able to use the 39 or 11 focus points, depending on how you have configured your camera, you would have to exit Live View, which would be both unnecessary and cumbersome.

Even so, your point is still valid that you could use auto focus or manual focus while in Live View so long as there is enough contrast for auto focus to work effectively. That brings up another point that when there is insufficient contrast for auto focus to work effectively, you always have the option of using manual focus.

[Brownbear]

Thank you for being so understanding. I feel like an airhead but I'm actually quite bright! But it is nice to know that you didn't have a clue either

Unfortunately the apples didn't do anything interesting. I will save them for my next assignment, or if I can't help myself (all of a sudden I have a huge craving for an apple) I can find more.

I have a work assignment that I have to finish in the next two days but I will tackle my next assignment on the weekend.

Auto ISO with aperture priority on a tripod? I thought that was a big NO-NO!

Shane... we were talking about you because your last set of landscape images were truly stunning with amazing back to front sharpness.

Considering that I use a D7000 and you use the D7100, my camera probably works the same way. I actually have no idea how to intentionally or accidentally make a movie. Your comment might explain why there is a little red dot in the middle of my Live View switch. Yikes!



Put it on YouTube. It will probably go viral.

Now that you have figured out how to focus using Live View and seem to like it, I just want to mention, ahem, that that makes me two for two (Live View and Auto ISO combined with Aperture Priority).

Don't eat any of those three apples. We'll get to the next lesson tomorrow. It's 1:00am local time and I'm gonna go to bed. I'll get back to you tomorrow.

[Brownbear]

Thank you for sharing your experience with Live View.... I feel much better.

I can hear you

Thanks for the clarification Mike.

[Mike Buckley]

Auto ISO with aperture priority on a tripod? I thought that was a big NO-NO!

Correct. Notice that my post doesn't suggest using it with a tripod.

Next lesson coming soon. You can get to it at your convenience.

[Brownbear]

John and Mike,

I tend to use single point focus (auto and manual) and I place that point of focus on the point of interest or in the case of landscapes on what I think will create the best back to front focus... My camera gives me a choice of 11, 21 and 51 points.

In reading the section on Live View my manual states that one should set the focus area to normal-area AF to pin point focus on a spot, and wide-area AF for hand held shots of landscapes.

It also offers face priority AF and subject tracking AF. I'd prefer to keep it simple but perhaps the subject tracking AF would work well for a landscape shot of mountains taken from a moving boat?