The silent majority

[Mike Buckley]

I'm surprised to see several people mentioning that they don't provide critique unless it is requested. I inferred from reading the forum FAQ that all posted images are subject to critique even though that isn't explicitly mentioned. Perhaps I should refrain from providing critique when it's not requested? Your thoughts?

By the way, I always want critique of my images, including the few times that I forget to ask for it.

[nimitzbenedicto]

I'm surprised to see several people mentioning that they don't provide critique unless it is requested. I inferred from reading the forum FAQ that all posted images are subject to critique even though that isn't explicitly mentioned. Perhaps I should refrain from providing critique when it's not requested? Your thoughts?

By the way, I always want critique of my images, including the few times that I forget to ask for it.

Now people will be encouraged to critique your images.

About your CiCing other images: If you want to critique - go for it!
if you don't, it's your call.
bottom-line , only you can decide what you want to do.

[Carl in Louisiana]

I'm surprised to see several people mentioning that they don't provide critique unless it is requested. I inferred from reading the forum FAQ that all posted images are subject to critique even though that isn't explicitly mentioned. Perhaps I should refrain from providing critique when it's not requested? Your thoughts?

By the way, I always want critique of my images, including the few times that I forget to ask for it.

+1 for me Mike. I always want critique other wise how am I to learn how to give back if I never learn in the first place. I have never been to a formal school for photography or any other training for that matter. What I have is a camera and CiC. If I have any skills beyond that I don't know it.

I belonged to two metal detecting forums in the past, my other hobby, and most folks posted finds that are very common like current coins or junk jewelry and most everyone posted "great finds/awesome finds/that's a hugh pile of clad, well you get the point. When reading all these posts it just sounds like a broken record and helps no one. Ego does not improve skill levels. I do post to some but feel unqualified in doing so as my knowledge level is zilch when it comes to photography other than what I have picked up here and reading other places. Knowledge without practical experience is not a whole lot but it is a beginning. I am not knocking anyone with a formal education and practical experience as I think they know what I mean or hope so.

[Shadowman]

You could write a lengthy essay about why photographs earn sparse commentary, starting with how the photograph is presented. In the case of "Star Storm", Daisy Mae presented the image, commented on how it is different from earlier works, and also provided a title which most commentors either ignored or were not aware of the source.

So the first set of viewers of the photograph either enjoyed it or didn't and their responses would not have really mattered to Daisy Mae because as she stated she was experimenting. Negative comments shouldn't stop her pursuing this endeavor, nor should positive responses encourage her. This is her journey not ours.

Then you get to the first set of critiques, either they liked it and said so or they didn't. Any further comments either for or against are irrelevant because Daisy Mae is till going through an experimental process and we cannot shape her vision. So for me I think I will wait and see how her experiment progresses before making a comment.

[arith]

Critique is mostly what I'm after; sometimes I want acknowledgement something I try is actually alright, but mostly critique especially with processing.

[terrib]

For me, there are enough posts on the forum that I can't take the time to respond to all so I do generally filter out many of them. I usually go to "New Posts" and scan them for 1) Titles that catch my interest 2) Posts by people I've developed a connection with and 3) Posts that I've previously been following. I tend to skip the ones that are not my thing i.e. portraiture or street photography. For those that I do view, if something in the photo speaks to me then I try to give encouraging or positive feedback and sometimes I will give constructive criticism. Although I don't really feel skilled enough for advise on technique, I can sometimes give an opinion just as a viewer. But if I don't comment, there are a lot of reasons besides the photo didn't move me that may have caused my silence. It could be just the number of posts since my last visit or like others have said, I just don't have anything new to add and there's already been enough comments.

As to my own posts, I do enjoy the feedback and am ALWAYS open to criticism. Even though sometimes I'm just sharing, the real reason for sharing here is to improve - otherwise I'd just share on Google+ with my friends. But I try not to read too much into either a large or low response because there are too many factors involved. But one thing I have noticed is that if you follow the advice in the "how to get good feedback" post and be specific with your questions, then you'll generally get a good response. The time and effort you put into your thread - not just your photo - will generally be returned to you.

[Kdfrank]

I'm finding this to be one of the most helpful threads I've read here. So thank you Paul for bring it up.

First, even having played with the camera my whole life there is still much to learn. I also work full time, have a son in college, etc,etc,etc. If I'm honest though I could find more time to engage rather than say watching USC football!

As others have posted, I see some excellent work here for which I feel I have nothing to add but an "atta boy" ( or "atta girl" ). Again, it is helpful to hear from the community that those types of posts are often valued.

So what do I do? I look at many of your images, learn from your posts and when the chance arises...grab the camera and go try a few of your ideas. Thanks to those who are regular posters and commenters.

[Kris V]

...... I will often not comment on the more experienced contributors. I don't know.......perhaps if I were seeing more comments on my own posts, I would be more likely to comment on others.

+1 - Especially for P52.

[Donald]

I'm surprised to see several people mentioning that they don't provide critique unless it is requested. I inferred from reading the forum FAQ that all posted images are subject to critique even though that isn't explicitly mentioned.

It's perfectly correct to say that every image posted, other than in competitions that are voted upon, is a candidate for comment. But the point I was making is that the learning experience is going to be greatly enhanced if the person posting the image in the first place says something about what they are looking for. That's why I keep citing Frank's post on the subject.

If someone posts an image with either no comment or just a , "This is a picture of ...............", my reaction, apart from thinking that's good, or that's not good etc etc., is to ask, "Yeh, so what do you want from me?"

If I have no idea what your thought process was, no idea what you were trying to achieve, no idea whether you think it's brilliant, or no idea if you're asking about composition, exposure, etc., then I don't know how to respond in a way that will be helpful to you.

I could write, "Wow, that's great", or, as the case may be, "That's rubbish", neither of which are going to help you in any way whatsoever (although I do accept that it is nice even to just get a, "That's wonderful"). As far as I'm concerned, the seeking and given of constructive criticism has got to be a two-way exchange that extends beyond the mere presentation of the image by one of the parties.

[Mike Buckley]

Thanks for the clarification, Donald. Very helpful!

[djg05478]

Sometimes I comment because I really like the photo regardless of the number of views or number of comments.

Sometimes I comment because I can identify with the story/situation surrounding the photo.

Sometimes I comment because its an opportunity to participate and engage on the forum, which is really the best way to start making connections and increase the likelihood of feedback on my own submissions.

Sometimes I don't comment because its all been said.

Sometimes I don't comment because I can't identify the helpful thing to say. I leave the technical comments to those more qualified to leave them.

But I do read through alot of the posts.....there is soooooo much valuable information on this site, ironically its mind numbing.
Debbie

[pnodrog]

Thanks everyone. I have found it reassuring to find my general approach is often shared and I have gathered interesting little insights from many of the posts.

One thing that did come up was some sort of thumbs up indicator. I know there is the I found this helpful vote but and I know some of you mark it even when you would have known all about it and are simply affirming the post. However there are times where a comment has not helped me but I just simple agree with it and would like some way to acknowledge the comment without having to make a new post.

[davidedric]

Thanks everyone. I have found it reassuring to find my general approach is often shared and I have gathered interesting little insights from many of the posts.

One thing that did come up was some sort of thumbs up indicator. I know there is the I found this helpful vote but and I know some of you mark it even when you would have known all about it and are simply affirming the post. However there are times where a comment has not helped me but I just simple agree with it and would like some way to acknowledge the comment without having to make a new post.

Isn't that the +1 vote? Or perhaps I've misunderstood?

[Tri Danimal]

I am surely in the silent majority.

I typically do not comment on the images I see on CiC. My reason is I am just starting out on this journey, as you can probably tell by my posts and questions, and I do not feel I am qualified for providing comments. The only comments I usually have are “I really like the composition” or” this is a great photo, keep up the great work”.

I will try to start becoming more involved in the feedback as I know I really like to have feedback. As silly as it sounds I like to see the “great picture” or similar simple comments because it lets me know I am making progress in the right direction, I think. Or maybe it’s that I am just starting out and I like bits of encouragement to keep getting better as a photographer.

Thanks for the link Donald on effective feedback, I will review it and put it to use.

[FrankMi]

I typically do not comment on the images I see on CiC. My reason is I am just starting out on this journey, as you can probably tell by my posts and questions, and I do not feel I am qualified for providing comments.

Hi Daniel, as you are just starting out you likely have a number of questions pop into your head when you see an image posted. Please don't hesitate to ask the photographer additional questions about their image as they occur to you. Most of us would love to help others understand how they got the image to its final presentation and it can provide you with some of the answers you may be seeking.

You don't need to limit you participation to only providing feedback and critique.

[Dave Humphries]

When I started here, I found there was sometimes a gap to be filled where occasionally the more experienced photographers had 'missed the point' (of a question being asked) and I, as a fairly newbie at the time, could identify with the problem, indeed I may have only just found the solution myself a few weeks earlier, so it was helpful to pass that on too.

If I erred on occasion, then someone else educated both me and the original poster

So as long as you are honest in your answers, it can help even for the very new to 'engage', even if they don't fully know what they're talking about, as long as it's not written so 'authoratitively' that it might mislead other inexperienced members, in which case someone will (hopefully tactfully) have to correct the error.

Me?
When answering questions or giving critique, I always try to remember;
I may have misunderstood the intention of a shot or the gist of a question
Mine is but one opinion, and it's no more valid than anyone elses
I may be wrong

My perception of my failings are that;
I possibly do come across too 'authoritarian'/experienced, I notice that sometimes; once I have commented in a thread, everyone else 'goes quiet', which is a shame for the original poster - don't be put off, challenge me!
I often try to help 'too much' and give an overwhelming amount of information (I just hope I don't put people off) - personally, I found it helpful when I was learning to be told it all, but not everyone can process all that information in one go
I sometimes find something 'wrong' with an image that everyone else is raving about and I can't help myself, since I feel we're all here to learn and so I raise it, hopefully as best I can.

I too spend far too much time here, because I find it more rewarding than my own photographic efforts.

Many of the replies above had me thinking 'me too'.

Good thread Paul, it has us all talking!

Cheers,

[jeeperman]

This is a very good thread and not just for the newer people. I myself try and comment where I am either moved or see that I might offer some help. There are times though that I will read posts for a couple days and say very little, but I am still reading. Some days it just takes a little extra something for me to post and I have no idea why.

I many times look for posts that have not gotten a response for whatever reason. I remember being new here and on occasion my post would go a while before answered. I get why these days but when new I wondered what the problem was. I suspect Donald scans for un attended posts as well. Sometimes it just takes that one reply to start the frenzy.

While I have been making images for some 30yrs, I have only gotten serious about things inside the last two years. One of the largest steps forward I took when new here was to start to critique others images. I was amazed at how much this helped me learn. When you are trying to give critique, you are forced to analyze the image. This does not stop with others images and infact some of what you see in others images will pop up when you have your finger on the button. It has helped me from prior to capture all the way threw PP.

Will I make mistakes in my image assesment? Absolutely and like Dave am happy to have someone come in an straighten me out. So don't be shy about putting your thoughts and questions out there....it is why we are all here. After all, it is not the "Iv'e already learned everything site"

While I try to give critique I will still give atta boy/girls as well. Pats on the back surely help in their own way, just try and mix in some critique along the way. We all benifit from it.

[KCBrecks]

Thanks for this opportunity Paul. Sometimes it almost feels like spying as I look at posts and neither comment nor mark as helpful.

I joined this forum in January this year after having the good fortune to buy a Canon EOS 1000D with the 18-55 and 75-300 lenses as an ex display from a local warehouse for just £120. It had just 36 shutter actions so was virtually new, just in a tatty box. It had been my hearts desire to move to a DSLR but the costs were just way beyond my means. This forum has been a source of constant inspiration and education. The move from bridge and compact cameras was not as easy as I had expected, despite having used SLR film cameras way back. Looking at other's work, reading what they had done and occasionally posting an image then studying the comments has been a major part of my education this year. I have even come to shooting in RAW and relishing the scope that has opened for working on images.

I do agree with Mike Buckley though that anything I post is by that action inviting comments. It is irksome to have posted a pleasing picture then having to face the criticism of the forum but that is how to learn and how much better it is to have criticism or praise from people you don't meet every day.

Perhaps the 'Found this helpful' device could be used to effectively say 'I like this' similar to the Like button on Facebook. Then we could be 'Silent supporters'.

[Andrew1]

Paul, I'm much like you and only comment where the subject is something I am interested in. I also don't add fluff and comment where others have listed my same opinions. Mind you that changes with the sun. Many here have already done that so I wouldn't be adding here except to say I visit another forum where the people registered make a choice on how they want editing and critiques completed. Both have three or four levels with wording basically indicating none, some, any. Those instructions are listed in the visible profile which on this site would be right under our Real Name. Some want zero editing of their "art" while others stipulate it in the Critique thread only. It works well.

PS I make a point of voting on every mini comp whether or not I like any of the photos. I also try to make only one choice. I will go back on every one and see where my pick ended up and if it's very far off will go back and take another look. It's a self education thing. One quirk I have is that this is a forum we all benefit from and some level of contribution is what keeps it going. If someone posts a shot I like and I don't recognize their name I will take a look at their history of posts. If they only post photos, and never add to the forums, I pass them by. Not right or wrong, just my choice.

[Clactonian]

It is very rare for me to read a post or view a photograph without having an opinion. The next step is the big one ... taking the plunge to go into print with a reply.
With photographs I will often download these and try out my ideas on crops or processing (where feasible). If that exercise reinforces my opinion then I might reply to the post, hopefully in a helpful manner. I am always mindful however that it is not my photograph, I was not there, and unless explained in the post, I have no knowledge of what the photographer was trying to achieve. Too often one can read harsh comments such as 'you should have moved further to the right' or similar, when if truth be known the photographer would have done if it were not for an obstacle.
Maybe the solution to our dilemma is for the poster to give more information about the photograph. The story, the intention, the physical limitations, and the reason behind the edit etc. This would certainly ease the burden when trying to give constructive comment.