Another tough decision on which one?????

[Gold Coast]

I have to make a decision soon on which camera either a Canon 7D or the Nikon D7000. These are both excellant cameras and I have had both brands over the years and really not stuck on one or the other. I am a little above amature and like to do mostly outdoor Scienic, nature, lakes, rivers, mountains, birds, some sports and people and some indoor. I am not intimidated by buttons and switches as some are. Lenses for either one will come with time as money permits.
They have some pretty good deals on camera and lens packages good for a start till I learn the camera and then upgrade to bigger and better lenses. I see real good deals time to time on used lenses for either of these cameras.
I am looking for suggestions and pro and cons on these cameras I am interested in. I live in the Sierra foothills in California in a small town and never see many quality cameras to talk to there owners. I would rather have input from those who have experiance with these cameras. I have been to several camera stores in bigger towns and some of them never want to spend time answering questions.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated on these cameras. Thank you

[GrahamH]

Of the two, I've only had experience with the 7Dand I foud it easy to use. Loved the camera. As it is now over 2 years old, the prices are dropping and seems a pretty good choice of the two. (Although recent events gave me the opportunity to upgrade, but between 7D and A77, I'm going with A77 - not that I expect you to broaden your choices.)
Graham

[Polar01]

I would suggest you look up Ken Rockwell he probability has reviews on both those cameras. He is independent and does not get funding from the suppliers. Good in depth review and comparsions, he use to be out of the US west coast now I believe the east coast. So check out his web site.

[rpcrowe]

I cannot comment on Nikons since I am a Canon user. However, I have a 7D and absolutely love it. I use it in conjunction with a Canon 40D camera and a pair of lenses: 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and 70-200mm f/4L IS. This combination of lenses is absolutely great.

I must say however, that lenses are usually more important factors than cameras when considering image quality. I would rather shoot with a Canon 40D and a top-line lens rather than a 7D and a lesser lens.

I hate when people tell me things like this but, it appears that you have just missed out on a 15% sale on canon refurbished units. The prices are considerably higher today than when I was researching for another poster last week.

[siggi]

I am biased towards Nikon,my wife and I have 6 Nikon DSLR's including a D7000 each,6 years trouble free shooting between them.In SA Nikon offers life long free sensor cleaning and the after sales service and free training course with each camera purchased is an added plus.(this in South Africa).
I respect the Canon brand and in your position I would merely compare the two cameras side by side with an 18-200mm lens fitted and the one that feels 'right' would be my choice. In this forum it is often stated 'the person behind the camera not just the camera produce good images'.
We have a highly experienced photographer in our club who wins prizes with a point and shoot!

[thequacksoflife]

I would suggest you look up Ken Rockwell he probability has reviews on both those cameras. He is independent and does not get funding from the suppliers. Good in depth review and comparsions, he use to be out of the US west coast now I believe the east coast. So check out his web site.

I would suggest NOT looking at his site.

[thequacksoflife]

right after my last post....

lets be honest if you buy a nikon d7000, canon 7d, Sony A77, Pentax K5 they will take great pics. Look at the lens line up and see what works for you..... we're at a point where it's not the camera at fault i you can't get pics.

I have an investment in Nikon lenses so I'm sort of tied in.....

in the uk value for money wise I think pentax might edge it.

[Donald]

You are really at at stage of splitting hairs.

If you're on the cusp of starting a new system (for that is what it is), then you need to get to somewhere where you can hold both units in your hands, play around with them and 'feel' which is right for you.

You could spend your life debating technical differences and fine points. You just need to go out there and buy. Great pictures come from the person using it, not from the box itself.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi William,

Welcome to CiC from me, great to have you join us.

I would suggest you look up Ken Rockwell ~
He is independent and does not get funding from the suppliers.
Good in depth review and comparsions. ~
So check out his web site.

and

I would suggest NOT looking at his site.

Sorta sums up people's views on Ken; people either love him or hate him.

I think properly introduced and read by an experienced photographer, he is of benefit.
But if a new 'tog dives in, reads one review, takes everything he writes literally and at face value, then one can be misled, or if repeated elsewhere, one can even get 'egg on face' - Ken has a wicked sense of; humour, exageration, sarcasm, etc. and it is easy to be mis-informed.

Do read reviews elsewhere, then read Ken's "About" page, then read a lot of his stuff so you know his style.

Then you'll be able to appreciate his reviews properly


However, as others have said, the time for reviews for you is probably over, you really should try both cameras ideally, especially if you have NO DSLR/SLR lenses of either Canon or Nikon manufacture that should be considered, go with what feels intuitive to use, first impressions count.

Cheers,

[Gold Coast]

I have been reading many reviews in the past few days and Kens also. I understand alot of what he is writing about. He does a pretty good review when he does one and covers alot of information. I will continue to read reviews and get all the information I can absorb till the time comes to pull the trigger. I appreciate all the responces from everyone here also. It all adds up in the end. I hope to make this the last camera buy and learn it and enjoy everything it can do. Then the lens fun starts and other accessories. It never seems to end, but I guess thats the fun of photography. Thanks to all I appreciate like I said on honest answers. We all have different opinions. Thats whats makes life interesting. Soon as I make the plunge I will take part more in this forum. Thanks again

[MrB]

As a contented Pentax user I have no experience of these two, but their specs are compared directly here -
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Nikon_D7000
and it appears the Nikon is better on most of the features that are important to enabling good imaging. And its cheaper, so you will have more funds for a good lens.

Philip

[Dave Humphries]

As a contented Pentax user I have no experience of these two, but their specs are compared directly here -
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Nikon_D7000
and it appears the Nikon is better on most of the features that are important to enabling good imaging. And its cheaper, so you will have more funds for a good lens.

Philip

Hi Philip,

I hadn't seen that site before, thanks.

After looking at several comparisons; I would again urge some caution here too, it does tend to focus on numeric data and disregard things like ergonomic differences.

Even the numeric data is not completely reliable (at least not in a way that will matter to most folks), they state the number of lenses available for the D5100 (no AF motor in body) and the D7000 as being the same; true they'll fit, but I'd have thought they should have only counted AF-S lenses for the D5100, or they'll mis-lead people.
Especially comparing across brands to say, Canon, where the reader may not be aware of the limitation, for example I find very bizarre that they think the D5100 has more lenses available (169) than a crop body Canon 7D (162).

Comparing Canon FF to APS-C, they do manage to get the ratio of these figures right between say 7D (162) and 5DII (125) - by not counting the EF-S lenses for the latter.

I am sure the same is true for any review site, each reviewer has their own 'blind spot' where they overlook things, the trick is to read them all (or none!), so that you build up the full picture in your head, or better still, compile your own paper comparison chart.

My current favourite review site is probably DPReview, or earlier; Steve's Digicams, but I'm certain they too make occasional mistakes (and have blind spots), anyone care to share on them

Hope that helps,

[Hero]

Dave: Is AF that crucial that you regard any non-AF-S lens useless on a D5100 or lesser model? I don't, although I think they should mention it.

William: Since your choice of topics you want to cover in photography, you might want to/have to revert to friends or rental-shops for lenses. check out what brands they have or specialise in. Because the glass available is far more important then the camera-brand it's connected to.

[Gold Coast]

I completly understand what lenses mean to a camera. It like the quality of speakers in a stero system. The cameras I have had in the past I never bought a lens without trying one first that will never change especially at the prices today. It took me about a month to get the stereo speakers and quite a few miles of driving to listen to different ones. I"ll probally end up in the bay area at bigger camera stores that have a good selection to try. I have a friend who lives about 150 miles away who is a professional outdoor and landscape photographer and I will also consult with him. He has all top of the line Canon cameras and lenses. Lenses I will never be able to afford. 1st of March should be a good target date. Not that far away. Still plenty of time for research for a final decision.

[inkista]

One more factor. The D7000 is a year newer as a model than the 7D. Introduction dates were Sept. 2010, and Sept. 2009, respectively. Which means that the 7D may be coming up for a refresh soon (no one's sure, since it's the first model in its tier, and we've got no gap between it and a predecessor to judge. Most of the xxxD models get replaced every fall, and the xxD models go from 1 year to 18 months between refreshes. It's been over two years for the 7D). PMA@CES this year is being held from January 8-13. PMA is the Photo Marketing Association, CES is the Consumer Electronics Show. They're combining forces this year, and being held together.

I'd keep an eye out for press releases that week. You may have to do your homework all over again.

One more thing. This is just my personal opinion, but the biggest paradigm shift from film to digital is realizing that the bodies are the most disposable part of the system. They're now digital electronics. Like cellphones and computers, paying more and going up-tier doesn't necessarily mean you keep the thing longer. You just have more features to play with while you have it. But these things will not last decades like their film predecessors. Feature updates and electronics breakdown keep most folks upgrading every three to five years for a single camera. If you have multiple bodies, you might hang onto them longer, simply because you're splitting the workload.

If you want to save money and get a ton of features, and you're not worried about keeping up with the Joneses, you could go with a used mid-tier camera, one generation back. The problem is that both of the models you're looking at are the first of their tiers, so you'd also have to drop or go up a tier. But say, a 50D or a D200/D300 might work for you as well, cost less, and give you more to spend on lenses.

Unlike bodies, lenses get refreshed once a decade or so, last you a lot longer, and don't depreciate nearly as much when you take them out of the box. In fact, some folks have made money the last couple of years flipping used lenses. The cash you spend on the glass is the permanent lasts-you-decades money.

[Shadowman]

I am biased towards Nikon,my wife and I have 6 Nikon DSLR's including a D7000 each,6 years trouble free shooting between them.In SA Nikon offers life long free sensor cleaning and the after sales service and free training course with each camera purchased is an added plus.(this in South Africa).
I respect the Canon brand and in your position I would merely compare the two cameras side by side with an 18-200mm lens fitted and the one that feels 'right' would be my choice. In this forum it is often stated 'the person behind the camera not just the camera produce good images'.
We have a highly experienced photographer in our club who wins prizes with a point and shoot!

I was watching an old Jean Claude Van Damme movie "Kickboxer" and a few of the reporters had Nikkormat 35mm cameras. These were manufactured from 1965 to 1978. Are you familiar with this brand? I am always on the look out for cameras and photographers and how they handle the gear in movies these days. The Nikon D5000 was used in the movie "The Dilemma".

[Gold Coast]

I used to have a nikkormat and quite a few lenses for it when I was in Germany tears ago. I shot alot of pictures with it all over Europe. All most all slides. Used to develope and frame all of them in the base hobby shop. Those were the fun days. I had several thousand slides at one time. They are all gone now and nothing to remember back. There was a divorce and it all disappered most likely on spite. Whats gone is gone and thats that.

[Shadowman]

I used to have a nikkormat and quite a few lenses for it when I was in Germany tears ago. I shot alot of pictures with it all over Europe. All most all slides. Used to develope and frame all of them in the base hobby shop. Those were the fun days. I had several thousand slides at one time. They are all gone now and nothing to remember back. There was a divorce and it all disappered most likely on spite. Whats gone is gone and thats that.

Bill,

From what I read about the Nikkormat it was a very sturdy camera. With it's metal construction I wonder how comfortable this would have been if shooting in cold weather?

[Gold Coast]

I am almost positive it was metal if I remember right.I used it in all kinds of weather naturally no in the rain. It was not sealed by todays standards. I also had an Olympus OM10 a few years later with several lenses. It took pretty good photos not quite as good as the Nikon. I then went on to a Nikon F4. That was a good camera and had lots of fun with it. I then went into astronomy with a 12 inch reflector telescope for awhile and also bought a Canon 30D. So next year its time to upgrade to newer tech camera. This seems to never end. I guess it will always grow with bigger and better things coming out. This next camera will be it and will concentrate on lenses and other accessories as money and time permit.

[Dave Humphries]

Dave: Is AF that crucial that you regard any non-AF-S lens useless on a D5100 or lesser model? I don't, although I think they should mention it.

Well, as you say Hero, AF isn't crucial, the lens still takes pictures, but its not something you want to discover after purchasing a lens and similarly, or when buying a camera body, expecting a full range of lenses, then discovering there's possibly only half that number that will AF, is going to be a disappointment and later, a frustration.

I knew (before I bought my D5000), but convinced myself the AF-S lenses are better anyway and it wouldn't matter, but it is still a frustration because half the affordable lenses aren't available with - you try finding a fast Nikon AF-S wide angle prime in the 20-28mm range that is less than £/$1000. They (Nikon) have a gap in their range; there are affordable f1.8 35mm and 50mm lenses, but where is the equivalent 24mm or 28mm? beyond my budget, that's where. I can live with about £600 - £700 (GBP) for a decent prime lens, but over £1100, nah. There are zooms, but these are bigger and inevitably have design compromises in the £800 area that show at the edges of frame. Climbing down off my hobby horse ...

Hence my desire that the limitation is fully recognised in reviews and comparisons.

Cheers,