Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43

Thread: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

  1. #1
    imagemkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    La Veta, Colorado
    Posts
    81
    Real Name
    Thom Anderson

    Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    I've recently purchased an Epson 3880 printer. I've seen info regarding the preferred dpi as 360. Most of my files are at 300dpi and I have printed a few of these with the new printer. They seem fine. Will I notice a difference if I print at 360? I really don't want to have to convert all my files (at least those I'm going to print).

    So my question is: does it really make a difference and is it worth the effort to modify them to 360dpi?

    Thanks, Thom

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cobourg, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,507
    Real Name
    Allan Short

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Thom Epson printers default setting is 360 dots per inch, Canon and I believe HP default at 300. Even when printing at 240 you can usually get a pretty good image at smaller sizes. Is it worth to reset the images you have already done, to my way of thinking no. It is not hard to change future images, if using LR or Photoshop you can do this when you first open your images, not sure with LR but in Photoshop when you open in ACR that line under the image click on it and it will take you to the raw settings. If using something else I sure that there is a way to do this.

    Cheers: Allan

  3. #3
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    21,408
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    I have the Epson 3880 as well and use the 360 dpi for all of my printing, because in theory, printing at the native resolution will give the best results.

    You can certainly leave them at 300 dpi and let the printer drivers do the scaling. They are quite good and chances are quite good that you won't notice any difference. I just happen to prefer doing things myself, rather than relying on automation; I get fewer nasty surprises that way (not just in printing).

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by imagemkr View Post
    I've recently purchased an Epson 3880 printer. I've seen info regarding the preferred dpi as 360. Most of my files are at 300dpi and I have printed a few of these with the new printer. They seem fine. Will I notice a difference if I print at 360? I really don't want to have to convert all my files (at least those I'm going to print).

    So my question is: does it really make a difference and is it worth the effort to modify them to 360dpi?

    Thanks, Thom
    Your files don't have something as a dpi. Your printer has something as dpi.
    If you understand that difference, things become much easier.

    George

  5. #5
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    21,408
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by george013 View Post
    Your files don't have something as a dpi. Your printer has something as dpi.
    If you understand that difference, things become much easier.

    George
    Actually George, this is not correct when it comes to printing. The dpi is a scaling factor and it has to be considered in when sizing the image for printing. HP and Canon printers have a native resolution of 300 dpi and Epson printers have a native resolution of 360 dpi. The Photoshop and Lightroom setup screens both require the dpi to be entered.

    When we print, we have to set the image size as well as the scaling factor when resizing the image. If we stick to the native resolution of the printer when scaling, the interpolation of upsampling or downsampling will occur only once, int the PP software. If we do not apply the native resolution at the time of scaling the image, interpolation will occur both in the PP image resizing operation as well as when the image data flows over to the printer and the printer driver is used.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    Actually George, this is not correct when it comes to printing. The dpi is a scaling factor and it has to be considered in when sizing the image for printing. HP and Canon printers have a native resolution of 300 dpi and Epson printers have a native resolution of 360 dpi. The Photoshop and Lightroom setup screens both require the dpi to be entered.

    When we print, we have to set the image size as well as the scaling factor when resizing the image. If we stick to the native resolution of the printer when scaling, the interpolation of upsampling or downsampling will occur only once, int the PP software. If we do not apply the native resolution at the time of scaling the image, interpolation will occur both in the PP image resizing operation as well as when the image data flows over to the printer and the printer driver is used.
    The file has a dimension of x by y pixels. Nothing more or nothing less. In your editor you can calculate what dimension your image will get when viewed at a certain resolution. And if you want you can resize the image. But the file itself won't get a property as dpi.

    George

  7. #7
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    21,408
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    In that case, why does this file show a 360 ppi resolution?

    Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,956
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    In that case, why does this file show a 360 ppi resolution?

    Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi
    Excellent riposte! Interesting that "dpi" suddenly becomes "ppi" as if there were no difference.

    Hopefully in this thread someone could explain that.

    I know very little about printers but I thought that printer "dots" were those actual pico-liter splodges of ink emanating from the head and that there could be quite a few "dots" per "pixel" . . . but now I'm confused.

    Makes me glad I don't print, eh? Please pardon my levity.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cobourg, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,507
    Real Name
    Allan Short

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    To make it more fun, I use a Epson set at 360 dpi/ppi that is what is shows, now when I print, I can adjust the print quality to 2880 x1440 for high quality or 1440 x 720 for regular quality.

    Cheers: Allan

  10. #10
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    21,408
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    There is a difference, but the image pixels map to the printer pixels quite nicely. I'm going to simplify a bit and I'm not going to be pendantic and will refer to black as a colour, even though it's not.

    Let me stick with the Epson Stylus Pro 3880, that I know quite well. It has 8 different ink colours (black, gray (Epson calls this Light Black), light gray (Epson calls this Light Light Black), light magenta, magenta, yellow, light cyan and cyan). Just to confuse things a bit, there are two blacks; one (Photo Black) is used for glossy paper and the other (Matte Black) is used for matte papers, but only one of these is used for a print and the printer selects which one based on paper type in use).

    The 3880 can also deposit two different dot sizes; a full sized dot and a half sized dot, so the printer can generate additional colours by varying the dot size. In the highest quality mode, the printer deposits 2880 dpi using the 8 "colours", so 2880/8 = 360 dpi, which is the "native resolution" of the Epson printers. Canon and HP printers run at 2400 dpi, so 2400/8 = 300 dpi resolution.

    So, the mapping between the pixels in the file and dots on the paper do line up; one colour pixel in the image maps to 8 discrete ink dots on the paper. If you set your native resolution in your image file to be the same as the printer resolution, the printer driver does not have to do any interpolation, hence the recommendation of using file resolution of 300 ppi for images to be printed on Canon and HP printers and 360 ppi for Epson printers all makes sense.
    Last edited by Manfred M; 20th April 2017 at 04:26 AM.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,956
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    There is a difference, but the image pixels map to the printer pixels quite nicely. I'm going to simplify a bit and I'm not going to be pendantic and with refer to black as a colour, even though it's not.

    Let me stick with the Epson Stylus Pro 3880, that I know quite well. It has 8 different ink colours (black, gray (Epson calls this Light Black), light gray (Epson calls this Light Light Black), light magenta, magenta, yellow, light cyan and cyan). Just to confuse things a bit, there are two blacks; one (Photo Black) is used for glossy paper and the other (Matte Black) is used for matte papers, but only one of these is used for a print and the printer selects which one based on paper type in use).

    The 3880 can also deposit two different dot sizes; a full sized dot and a half sized dot, so the printer can generate additional colours by varying the dot size. In the highest quality mode, the printer deposits 2880 dpi using the 8 "colours", so 2880/8 = 360 dpi, which is the "native resolution" of the Epson printers. Canon and HP printers run at 2400 dpi, so 2400/8 = 300 dpi resolution.

    So, the mapping between the pixels in the file and dots on the paper do line up; one colour pixel in the image maps to 8 discrete ink dots on the paper. If you set your native resolution in your image file to be the same as the printer resolution, the printer driver does not have to do any interpolation, hence the recommendation of using file resolution of 300 ppi for images to be printed on Canon and HP printers and 360 ppi for Epson printers all makes sense.
    Thanks for the explanation, Manfred, which does indeed highlight the peculiar world of photography where "dpi" means at least two different things but, fortunately, "everybody knows" which is which!

  12. #12
    dje's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    4,632
    Real Name
    Dave Ellis

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by xpatUSA View Post
    Interesting that "dpi" suddenly becomes "ppi" as if there were no difference.
    Ted I think it's a subtle difference - ppi is really all PhotoShop can talk about because it is simply scaling the pixel dimensions of the image to a certain resolution. So if you have an image that is 3000 pixels wide and you intend to print it 10" wide, PS will be sending an image to the printer that has 300 pixels corresponding to one inch of printing - 300 ppi.

    Manfred has explained clearly how dots per inch in a printer gets complicated!

    Dave

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,956
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by dje View Post
    Ted I think it's a subtle difference - ppi is really all PhotoShop can talk about because it is simply scaling the pixel dimensions of the image to a certain resolution. So if you have an image that is 3000 pixels wide and you intend to print it 10" wide, PS will be sending an image to the printer that has 300 pixels corresponding to one inch of printing - 300 ppi.

    Manfred has explained clearly how dots per inch in a printer gets complicated!

    Dave
    Thanks, I don't use Photoshop but I understand the point.

    That he has, Dave. Looks like "dpi" means anything Chuck Norris says it means . . just kidding.

    Is it time to talk about monitor dpi yet . . .

  14. #14
    dje's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    4,632
    Real Name
    Dave Ellis

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by xpatUSA View Post

    Is it time to talk about monitor dpi yet . . .
    Ted I'm not really a macoshist

  15. #15

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    amsterdam, netherlands
    Posts
    3,182
    Real Name
    George

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    In that case, why does this file show a 360 ppi resolution?

    Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi
    You tell me. I can change that number to any value without changing the file or print. It's more like a request.



    The 3880 can also deposit two different dot sizes; a full sized dot and a half sized dot, so the printer can generate additional colours by varying the dot size. In the highest quality mode, the printer deposits 2880 dpi using the 8 "colours", so 2880/8 = 360 dpi, which is the "native resolution" of the Epson printers. Canon and HP printers run at 2400 dpi, so 2400/8 = 300 dpi resolution.
    You're stating now that 2880 is equal to 360???? And 2400 is equal to 300???? Very confusing. It looks more as a printing resolution of 300ppi will use 2400dpi. My first conclusion would be that a lot of books and software may be rewritten.

    I must say I don't know how a printer works. Are the colors laid next to each other or across each other?

    Dave,
    Ted I think it's a subtle difference - ppi is really all PhotoShop can talk about because it is simply scaling the pixel dimensions of the image to a certain resolution. So if you have an image that is 3000 pixels wide and you intend to print it 10" wide, PS will be sending an image to the printer that has 300 pixels corresponding to one inch of printing - 300 ppi.
    So the way we use it, is always pixels per inch. When I recalculate the image size to be sent to the printer to be printed at 100%, I do the calculations on pixels per inch. And when I print the same image on 300"dpi" vs 360 "dpi" at 100% I will get 2 different sizes. And when being printed on the same size, at least one of them must be resized. by the printer driver or by you.

    George

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    400
    Real Name
    Dem

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by imagemkr View Post
    So my question is: does it really make a difference and is it worth the effort to modify them to 360dpi?
    I do not think it will make much difference so it is probably not worth doing.

    An image file has x by y pixel (the actual data to print or display on the monitor) and a ppi tag that is supplied as EXIF metadata (two tags in fact: "X resolution" and "Y resolution") and can be changed to any value you want without affecting the image data.

    A printer has its own resolution (dpi) that is hardware limited and is fixed to a particular value, say 300 dpi. You might be able to change this setting to say 200 dpi, but you cannot ask your printer to print at say 299 or 301 dpi, unless these are predefined options and the hardware can accommodate them.

    A printer would normally give at least two options regarding the size of the print: either print "original image size, scale 100%" or "fit to page, auto-scale".

    In the first case, the printer driver reads the ppi tags from the EXIF, recalculates the dimensions of the image in inches and prints it at these dimension (upsampling or downsampling the image as required) at whatever dpi the printer resolution was set to.

    In the second case, the printer driver ignores the ppi tags from the EXIF, uses the paper dimensions to upsample or downsample the image and prints the image again at whatever its dpi was set to.

    There is often a third option called something like "Zoom, 100%" or "dot-to-dot", when the printer driver ignores the ppi tags from the EXIF, ignores the actual paper size and prints each pixel as a "dot" at printer's own resolution. No upsampling/downsampling is taking place and the size of the print is defined by the dpi setting of the printer.

    Back to the OP. Unless you are using method #3 and, like Manfred, upsampling/downsampling your images manually for a specific print size and resolution (say 20" x 30" at 360 dpi), you won't get any improvement by simply changing the value of the ppi tag in your files.
    Last edited by dem; 22nd April 2017 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #17
    dje's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    4,632
    Real Name
    Dave Ellis

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by george013 View Post
    Are the colors laid next to each other or across each other?

    George
    Next to each other in a dither pattern. But don't ask me the details!

    Thom

    This article on the Epson 3880 by Eric Chan might be of interest. It contains a section on Native Resolution under the Print Quality Section.

    Dave

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,956
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Quote Originally Posted by dje View Post
    Next to each other in a dither pattern. But don't ask me the details!

    Thom

    This article on the Epson 3880 by Eric Chan might be of interest. It contains a section on Native Resolution under the Print Quality Section.

    Dave
    Excellent article: these links get us a little closer to the subject at hand (saves a bit of scrolling or searching):

    http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan...tml#native_res

    http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan...arison_fourway

    .
    Last edited by xpatUSA; 20th April 2017 at 04:43 PM.

  19. #19
    imagemkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    La Veta, Colorado
    Posts
    81
    Real Name
    Thom Anderson

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    Thanks for the article, Dave. The more I read the more confusing it gets. Maybe I should just keep doing my thing as the results are fine. Read below.

  20. #20
    imagemkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    La Veta, Colorado
    Posts
    81
    Real Name
    Thom Anderson

    Re: Epson 3880 printer - 300 vs 360 dpi

    I have been having my prints done professionally at a local digital studio before buying the 3880. The printers they use are Epson 9800s and my files that they printed from were always sized and sharpened at 300 and no one ever mentioned 360 and they came out just fine. My last printer about 12-15 years ago was an Epson 1280 and I always printed at 300 or sometimes 250 with excellent results.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •