What Kayak for Wildlife Photography

[rtbaum]

A dry bag is a must! I destroyed a SLR film camera and lens back in the day by not using one. It did not fall in the water, it succumbed to water that accumulated in canoe from switching sides while paddling. It is not a question of if water will get in, but when.

[NorthernFocus]

Hi, Terri. We boat on Prince William Sound Every summer and use kayaks as our dingy to get ashore, just for paddling around, and of course for photography. To be clear, I'm NOT a kayaker but have been afloat on all sorts of boats literally since I could walk and also use them for photography. But, like most things, we all have our opinions and the following are just my point of view on the topic. Priorities for me while using a kayak for photography are:

1) stability: for safety of both self and gear and for ability to shoot
2) durability/reliability: to avoid getting stranded somewhere due to springing a leak
3) portability: ability to operate solo both on the water and getting to/from
4) ease of entry/exit: not as simple as it sound with gear
5) paddling performance: the first thing on most kayakers' lists, bottom of mine

We've found inflatable kayaks to be excellent for items 1, 3, and 4. Adequate for photography purposes for items 2 and 5. You may want to check out the website of Advanced Elements. They make some really good inflatables in various configurations. They are really wide and stable yet light weight. You can get singles in the 20-30 lb range that are over 30" wide. Even with dogs aboard etc. we've yet to get dumped out of one. We paddle tandem in the 15ft "convertible model. It can be used with or without a deck on it.

As a reality check, don't expect critters to sit calmly and let you paddle up to them just because a kayak is quiet. In my experience, something about the motion of the paddles seems to freak them out. You can drift right up on things if you're still. As soon as you start paddling they get jumpy. You have to develop a stealth paddle mode

Whatever you choose, enjoy. It's a great way to go.

Edit: I forgot to mention another benefit of inflatable kayaks. You can travel with them. Ours weighs less than 50lbs and folded up checks as standard luggage with the airlines.

[rtbaum]

Kevlar is an option for cutting weight. Kevlar is quite strong, but can tear. What it comes down to is that you must avoid sharp rocks. This normally only a problem on entry and exit, I really don't have a problem with "wet-footing it" as stability is much better when the craft is floating in shallow water as opposed to teetering on the shoreline.

A 14.5' kevlar canoe comes in around 30#

[terrib]

We've found inflatable kayaks to be excellent for items 1, 3, and 4. Adequate for photography purposes for items 2 and 5. You may want to check out the website of Advanced Elements. They make some really good inflatables in various configurations.

This thread is getting long so you didn't get to see this statement buried in one of my replies " I also had considered seriously this boat, Advanced Frame Expedition, but every single person I've talked to has advised against it. It just seemed an alternative that offered me the ability to carry it in any vehicle without addition cost of carrying setups and something I could haul around, being about the weight of a feed sack."

So just when I'd talked myself out of it, you come along. Geez, maybe it was an old thread here that I got the idea from you to begin with. Other than the time it takes to inflate, I really couldn't see a disadvantage of this for me but 3 instructors from 2 different organizations both dissed them. I do think, though, that your point about the priority of performance along with where I am likely to use one is a good one. And since I have 2 different vehicles and sometimes a camper, it seemed easier than dealing with loading setups. Not to mention if I want to ride with someone else, they don't have to accomodate my boat as I can just throw it in the trunk or back seat.

OK, so if I go back to considering this seriously and you've used one of these, what is your opinion about the model to choose? I had picked the Expedition, even though a bit heavier, because I thought it would track better and has a little more storage. But storage is probably minor so tracking would be the only advantage and maybe being able to keep up with my friends on the occasions I join them. I was going to get the optional backbone too.

Thanks for the information!

[NorthernFocus]

In my prior post I meant to expound on the importance of stability when photographing from a kayak. Presumably any photographer with significant time behind a camera has experienced instances when one momentarily loses balance and/or becomes somewhat disoriented due to concentrating on the image in the viewfinder. Well the same thing occurs when sitting in a kayak. And to make matters worse, the boat may be slowly turning while you're focusing on your subject. As you twist your body/camera/lens around to stay on target your center of gravity shifts. With concentration on photography your mind/body may not be making the sub/unconscious little adjustments needed to keep the boat upright. The more stable the boat, the less of an issue this is. Over time your boat handling skills and floating photography technique develop to make this less of an issue. But there is always an element of risk afloat that doesn't exist with one's feet planted on terra firma.

[NorthernFocus]

Apparently we were both typing at the same time.

Regarding inflatable kayaks, no serious kayaker would likely be caught dead in one. Other than perhaps the back-packable versions for deep back country stuff. If your primary interest in the kayak is for photography, then you have to filter the input you'll get from serious kayakers. They'll be focused on performance first. Secondly performance. And finally performance

If I recall, the AE Expedition model is one of the narrower ones, therefore better paddling performance, less stability. If you're short/small, likely still plenty stable but just be aware. For a given hull design, stability is more or less proportional to width.

We bought a boat without the backbone but with an upgrade to the "rigid" inflatable bottom. I contemplated adding the backbone later but after using the boat a while it paddled so well that I decided any added performance wasn't worth the added complexity during setup. But IMO the rigid bottom is a must. Not sure if that is now standard. Back when we bought ours it was an option.

One thing that is counter intuitive is that with a wider boat you need longer paddles. Otherwise you end up chaffing your knuckles on the side of the boat which rather smarts. Also the longer paddle means a flatter angle to the paddle and less water running down onto your hands/lap and less visible to critters. If you watch a kayak on the water what you mostly see(other than the bright colors) is the paddle blade swinging overhead. Selection of paddles is another point on which you'll have to filter input from serious paddlers relative to what works best for photography. Actually once you're engaged in shooting and only need the paddle to maneuver the boat rather than for power, it helps to break the paddle down and use half of it like a canoe paddle. Or carry a short canoe paddle for that purpose.

[Mike Buckley]

I just now saw a television advertisement of a guy paddling a green canoe up a grassy hill and up an escalator. It worked like a charm. That's obviously a far superior solution to the kayaks being discussed here.

[rtbaum]

I just now saw a television advertisement of a guy paddling a green canoe up a grassy hill and up an escalator. It worked like a charm. That's obviously a far superior solution to the kayaks being discussed here.

I have a green canoe, everyone know's green is superior in all important matters

[terrib]

Thanks, Dan for all the follow-up information. I really do appreciate everyone's time! And thanks to Mike and Randy for the comic relief.

Today, I got to see the models at the sporting goods stores that Andrew and Monte use. I plan on more rentals before I purchase so at least I can try to find similar rentals since those stores are not really set up for trying them out. Maybe I can find another exposition with multiple vendors available. I missed recent ones in Texas last month. But all of you have given me a good starting place. (Even Mike! There really are some with cup holders ) It's nice to hear opinions from people I feel like I "know" and who have similar needs to mine.

Thank you all so much!

[rtbaum]

Whatever your choice....it is imperative that you have the proper crew

[Andrew1]

I've never used one but have seen photographers use the pontoon fishing boat mentioned earlier in the thread. A nice thing about using that is the tubular frame allows you to expand that frame with pvc tubing and build yourself a blind or floating island to camouflage yourself.

If you are looking for a kayak type boat with an added level of confidence do an email search for 'kayak with outriggers'. People I know have purpose-built ones for use on the ocean and find them very stable.

[DanK]

This is fun. It happens that my two favorite hobbies are photography and kayaking. It's my first time having them come together in a forum.

serious kayakers. They'll be focused on performance first. Secondly performance. And finally performance

Well, I admit, pretty much, although comfort does get talked about also, once in a while. Almost every time I get into a conversation with another paddler, the conversation ends up being about how the boats behave.

One thing that is counter intuitive is that with a wider boat you need longer paddles. Otherwise you end up chaffing your knuckles on the side of the boat which rather smarts. Also the longer paddle means a flatter angle to the paddle and less water running down onto your hands/lap and less visible to critters. If you watch a kayak on the water what you mostly see(other than the bright colors) is the paddle blade swinging overhead. Selection of paddles is another point on which you'll have to filter input from serious paddlers relative to what works best for photography.

Good point. Wider boats do mean somewhat longer paddles and a flatter paddling style. Regardless of the paddle length, if you end up with a kayak, I recommend having someone with experience give you a little bit of instruction. Novices usually think it is obvious how to paddle a kayak, but it isn't entirely. My wife has gotten really tired of my constantly muttering, when looking at people a long distance away, "they have to be novices. Look at the way they are paddling." The giveaway is that they holding their backs almost fixed, often leaning back, and doing all the work with their shoulders and arms. That is VERY tiring, especially if you don't have particularly strong arms (I don't). If you watch experienced paddlers, you will see their torsos rotating with their strokes. They are making use of the much stronger muscles in their torsos. I once took a 5 or 6 day trip off Nova Scotia, and I remember the trip leader teaching this to the novices. At one point he told them to watch his pfd as he paddled in front of them. He said that they would see his pfd rotating with every stroke. And just as with a canoe, you have to learn the strokes for turning, learn how deep to place the paddle, etc.

As for the type of paddle: this is almost as bad as picking a tripod. However, I will give you one piece of advice: some are much lighter than others. The light ones are not cheap, but if you don't have strong arms, they are nice to have.

Glad to hear that you are trying things out. Once you find what you are comfortable in, post some pictures!

[rtbaum]

Dan gives very good advice. I will reiterate the importance in learning proper technique. I recall one canoe trip that I set up years ago for co-workers, it was my wife and I in my canoe, three guys in a rental canoe. Two were brothers, they set up the wisened older brother in the bow, the body builder in the stern, remaining gent in the center. Off we went down the Brule in Northern Wisconsin, the three guys in search for high jinx and mayhem to be handed down to the old guy (me) and his bride..............At one point, in the eddy below one section of class II, the were seen to be stern back stroking, bow forward stroking, guy in the middle paddling to the side. It was quite the spectacle.

In canoes, it is consistent relatively short strokes using the power face efficiently that eat up the miles, it is quite a bit like bicycling. Find a good cadence and go, there is no need for bulging muscles.

The core of your body should generally be kept dead center and be flexible to side to side motion. It seems scary to some the first time in a canoe and they tense up. It is sometimes fun to go out in canoe or kayak and intentionally try to flip. It is not that easy.

Whatever you choice is to be, just be comfortable. Try Craigslist, you should be looking for $1000-$2000 for a good quality craft.

Just for inspiration, I thought you would enjoy a video of the ultimate in canoe control
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...F362&FORM=VIRE

[Loose Canon]

Hi Terri!

I’ll toss a couple of thoughts into the mix here from my own personal experiences. These experiences come from 40 years of whitewater/swift water rescue boating/instructing. Back in the beginning commercially built boats were non-existent and you had to know someone who had a mold so you could glass your own. A homemade boat I made myself was my first ww yak. And I have been paddling open boats (canoes) all my life both recreationally and whitewater. While I have done a fair bit of open water (lakes/ocean) boating, both kayaks and canoes, the bulk of my boating has been done on rivers and backwaters.

I would stay clear of anything inflatable if I were you. They have their place and some advantages. But they also have some disadvantages that may not outweigh. And if you do go inflatable just make darn sure that the boat has separate chambers. If you puncture the boat you will not lose the whole boat. Just the punctured chambers.

They are not as rigid, causing more drag, and therefore require more effort. Effort to inflate/deflate at the put-in/take-out. The inflation pressure will vary with the weather. You inflate it to what you think is good and if it gets hot that day the pressure will increase (expand) in the heat and if you are not careful you can blow a tube (chamber). The opposite is also true if it gets cold and you will find yourself needing to re-inflate all tubes. You should carry a repair kit and hand pump with these as regular gear. Puncture a chamber and you may take on a lot of water. The boat will still float but you may find you and your gear sitting in a bath tub!

I would definitely not consider a “pontoon” raft (AKA cataraft) for solo, non-expedition work. These are great for hauling gear but a huge PITA dealing with by yourself. Plus these are like a kite if any wind comes up. If you are planning a multi-day trip down the Colorado River they are great, but day trips not so much. Unless you can carry it assembled (which means on a trailer), you have to inflate both tubes, assemble the frame, strap the frame to the pontoons and just too much effort/not enough pay-off for day trips. Rinse and repeat for breaking it down. Forget them for open water, these are moving water boats! I would stick with a hard boat if I were you.

For general recreational/photography boating I prefer a solo open boat (canoe). A good one is as light as most rec yaks (but certainly not all), takes less water to float (again not all), but has the added advantage of sitting higher (better visability), more gear capacity, and you can get up and move around in the boat. A tripod can even be set up in one. They are however, harder to learn to paddle effectively than a kayak. It seems you are not looking to go this route however and that is just my personal preference.

So to add to the advice/thoughts? Watch the weight. A lot of rec yaks today are made with lower quality materials, adding weight. And sometimes an amazing amount. Some of my friends have cheap rec yaks that weigh a ton and it didn’t take them long to regret not getting something better. Not only a pain on and off the truck but harder to get to respond on the water and their draft is deeper.

For shallow/bending moving water (rivers) don’t get something with a keel or partial keel. For lakes/open water look to a keel or even a foot-pedal operated rudder. For tight backwaters (sloughs), no keel.

If you want to paddle in all weather don’t go sit-on-top. They are very wet and as far as that goes expect to get wet anyway. Dress for success and make sure you have a way to keep your gear dry (bags/boxes). If you are boating you are just in between swims so don’t think it won’t happen! Forget about primary and secondary stability. Secondary stability is indicative of a good boat’s ability to be “leaned” for maneuvering and won’t be as important for the purposes you are describing. Get something that feels stable when you sit in it for the first time (primary). That way it will be even better when you get used to it. 9-12 feet long or so to get a good compromise on hull speed and maneuverability. Remember a keel will affect this also.

Never tether a paddle to yourself (PFD). This is an entanglement or end-to-end pin waiting to happen and will inhibit swimming among other major safety considerations. Certainly in moving water. Imagine yourself in moving water and you are downstream of a paddle attached to you. You pin against a rock and that paddle comes down on you and wraps itself around your neck in the current and that rock because you couldn’t get away from a tethered paddle! If you do leash a paddle leash it to the boat. Also a spare break-down paddle is a good idea. Get some drip guards for whatever paddle you use to minimize water running down the shaft, into your hands, down your arms, and into your boat/lap/camera gear.

Whatever you do you’re in for a very cool experience and I’m envious!

Have fun and be safe Terri!

[Plumcrak]

This is what I use on the lake for photos and fishing. Not fancy and not super light but all I have to do is it 5' and drop it in the water.

[Plumcrak]

It does the trick for me.

[DanK]

Terry's point about entanglements is extremely important, so I will explain here and then remove that part of my earlier post.

I would never use a leash in moving water, or even while touring. Entanglements are a serious risk in moving water. I attach mine under very limited circumstances, which I should have described. And since I and I think everyone else has urged you to get some sort of open boat, not a closed kayak like mine, you can just stow your paddle. So scratch my suggestion. And Terry, thanks for your response. That comment was a big oversight on my part.

I realized I do have one shot of my boat in use. I took this with a waterproof P&S with the lens racked out to narrow the field of view, so it makes the boat look short and stubby, while it actually is long and very thin. It does suggest the importance of a dry bag--even in that calm water, the front of the boat got wet from the paddle.

[Loose Canon]

Well, guess I could post a couple of open boat examples since this is such a cool thread…

Capt. Wifey-Poo and scurvy-dog crew!



Things you get to see on the water that you wouldn’t otherwise…



Open boat hauling gear for a multi-day run. Notice the dry-bags…



And since Richard and Randy have contributed? Scurvy-dog crew standing watch!

[terrib]

Thanks for adding your thoughts, Terry. A lot of good information to think about in here. I'll have to reread most of this thread several times to absorb it all and figure out what applies best for me. I'll better be able to analyze it all with a little more time in the water. If it will ever stop raining in north Texas so I can do that!

Thanks everyone for adding your photos. It's fun to see! I'll add photos of what I currently have. It's a 16' Mohawk and my husband and I went out in it many times. But it was before I was into photography and I only have a few pics taken from it. We paddled as a team most of the time or he did the work. I never attempted to paddle it alone. Now that it's just me, a kayak just seems like it would be easier.

A shot of hubby and granddaughter about to head to the small lake at the back of our property. 2002



Taken from the canoe looking at the neighbor's property. 2013



The state of the canoe after the December tornadoes came through and blew it off it's perches and across the yard. It still sits there, although I have turned it over to keep it from filling with water. 2016

[rtbaum]

Terri-That is a nice canoe, a little cleanup and you could sell it to help finance something new.