Amen Street

[Sam W]

This might serve as an opposite to Donald's "how minimalist can a picture be". It is my first attempt at street photography. The personal challenge was a fun change of pace. It seems though that you need a completely different mindset to do well at it. C&C welcome.

[purplehaze]

Hi Sam,

Having done a lot of processing this week, I have been thinking a lot about what serves as the "bones" of an image and processing that best serves the bones. While my eye loves the detail in this image, I think I find some elements competing with each other and my eye doesn't quite know where to settle. What is it that you want us to see, exactly? Would your vision be better served by different framing, a different distribution of tone, a softening of some of the detail? I don't want to be overly critical here, because this is to my eye an example of very competent image-making, but I just wonder whether in the processing, you lost sight of what it was that made you put your camera to your eye in the first place. Honestly, I don't know why I am putting this to you; I might as well be putting it to myself. But I am thinking that perhaps what takes a detailed image like this from good to truly great is a very subtle minimalist structure that makes itself immediately perceptible to the viewer. Just throwin' that out there. What do you think?

[flashback]

Sam, to my mind this is a home run. For starters this need to be viewed at full enlargement. This is almost (or exactly) like a staged set shot. Classic 'small town' storefront/architecture, man crossing street, man in background taking photo of woman, car appropriately place with DOG VISIBLE ALMOST AS THE DRIVER!. I'm impressed that this was just a random shot as opposed to a staged shot.
If I may, I'd like to address Janis, starting with a quote, "I think I find some elements competing with each other and my eye doesn't quite know where to settle. What is it that you want us to see, exactly?"
Janis, how would this image compare to say, a landscape image of the Grand Tetons? Should the image only be of ONE teton? Where would our eyes land on an image of le troi tetons? I see so often people commenting on street photography with a similar comment as to 'what should we be seeing?' or 'what is the subject?'. I think it's unfair that people seem to want to restrict street photography to a limited, or specific image whereas landscape photos just get ohhs and ahhs.

And wouldn't a "very subtle minimalist structure that makes itself immediately perceptible to the viewer" be an oxymoron?
Please understand I am not 'attacking' you, but much of what you've written I've seen written before and I fail to find the relevance. In this particular instance I think that Sam's shot is a damn good image. And you say that "I think I find some elements competing with each other..." That is kind of an empty statement, I think to better prove your case would have been to actually identify what you think the competing elements are. Otherwise it kind of sounds like an art student comment. And what are the 'bones of an image?'

As I'm writing this I keep going back to the image and I stand with my first, gut reaction. This is a really, really interesting and layered photograph. My eye lands on the entire image, as it would on one of the Grand Tetons, viewing the image centrally, then moving out, perhaps circularly or from left to right (or right to left, my eyes are not so rigid) but however I view it, I take in all of the detail and structure.

Maybe it's late, a long day, but if this image were presented as say an example of one of so-and-so's best works, I could easily believe it. This is an image I would strive to achieve. It's sharp, nicely composed and converted (and nobody is eating an apple.)

P.s. Absolutely. Perfect. Title.

[purplehaze]

Absolutely fair comment, Jack, and I probably should not have used Sam to air my musings. I can tell you that my eye does get confused by the left third of the image where there is less contrast in the scale, volume and shape of the elements. Love the dog in the car.

The bones of an image are the elements in a scene that come together in a way that make me catch my breath and want to record it. Most of the time I am too late.

[flashback]

Janis, thank you for not being offended as that clearly was not my intent, and thank you for further explaining (and sorry to Sam if I'm kind of thread jacking). The left third (quarter?), that bit of street with the people, I see that as almost a Grand Staff which kind of defines the rest of the image. As for the scale of the elements, is this a combination of music and chemistry?

And I will reiterate that I really find this image absolutely...just great. So maybe I have some weird proprietary interest.

[purplehaze]

Just so you know, Sam, I give you damn good.

[Ndukes]

This to me is a strongly atmospheric well executed monochrome. The composition for me is interesting with a tension created by the 'slab' of building occupying roughly 2/3 of the image area and the small area of sky. There are lots of little stories going on here, the dog in the car, man with camera standing in the street lining up his shot, the 'Amen Street' name on the shop and more. But I can see where Janis is coming from (I think). As perpetual 'students' of photography we learn that the essence of a good street photograph should contain a story which the composition should direct us to, as in the style of Henry Cartier Bresson for example. And that we do best to try to exclude elements that are not essential to the story.
Sam's image is not that kind of composition. It contains a number of little 'stories' and invites us to observe them as we choose. The sum of these creates the atmosphere. I do like it a lot but I instinctively share Janis's need to look for a composition with all elements leading to a single theme.

[IzzieK]

I like the image too, Sam...At first I thought -- typical street shot -- when I saw that dog in the car but then I enlarged it in lytebox and looked at its lines and crevices and it is a good study of architecture of the street with that name which attracted me to open it because of your title too. The guy about to cross the road, where did he came from, where is he going? The guy in the middle of the other street and that woman he is taking a photo of, are they tourists? some human and animal elements here. Good start for a first for you...well done.

[Shadowman]

To me the title defines this particular image; only because it was added. Without a tile we'd be free to explore as freely as we'd want, I found myself looking for a connection between the title and the image and while I found the connection it doesn't fit. I'll let others find the "Amen". I like the processing and composition.

[Ziggy]

My eyes like the image.

I focus on the car and the dog first then to the people on the left then back right where I see the amen.

Nice work Sam.

[marlunn]

I just 'looked' at the image, I am standing on a street corner and see this. To me that is street photography - sometimes it is to point at a specific item that catches your eye - sometimes it is simply - here is life this is what it is. We see many 'iconic' plates of times gone by that are exactly that and are lauded by those in the know. That works for me in this image I can choose where I want my focus to be to fit my personal taste rather than be 'stage directed' at a specific item that actually I may not pay serious attention to otherwise. Its not a style that I have any expertise in and I do not consider myself as a person who's opinion has any weight - but gut reaction ( love that phrase) - I like it as it is and can happily look around it and say 'hey wow did you see that, I wonder if they saw you taking that photo when they were taking one as well?' type of thing.

BUT - I really like all the expressions and feedback by everyone on this cos thats how I learn lots - and the great thing is they are all valid and important to understand to allow us all to progress.

Also apologies for hijacking - good image Sam keep on taking them.

[Sam W]

Hi Sam,

Having done a lot of processing this week, I have been thinking a lot about what serves as the "bones" of an image and processing that best serves the bones. While my eye loves the detail in this image, I think I find some elements competing with each other and my eye doesn't quite know where to settle. What is it that you want us to see, exactly? Would your vision be better served by different framing, a different distribution of tone, a softening of some of the detail? I don't want to be overly critical here, because this is to my eye an example of very competent image-making, but I just wonder whether in the processing, you lost sight of what it was that made you put your camera to your eye in the first place. Honestly, I don't know why I am putting this to you; I might as well be putting it to myself. But I am thinking that perhaps what takes a detailed image like this from good to truly great is a very subtle minimalist structure that makes itself immediately perceptible to the viewer. Just throwin' that out there. What do you think?

Hi Janis,

As I mentioned, this was my first purely deliberate attempt at what I perceive to be street photography. I did not know until reading critiques in this thread how close or far I landed from the mark. For those who really like this photo I can say it was only beginner's luck. To your question "what is it that you want us to see" I want people to see the whole thing, all at once if possible.

The photo below which arguably has more bones and minimal structure than Amen Street is more of what I call my routine process. That is to say, find something interesting, frame in the viewfinder with an interesting backdrop, select the best aperture and shoot. Amen Street took me from that comfort zone, yes I felt uncomfortable taking the shot. Note, I chose not to post this photo on its own tread because I do not consider it my best. It does represent what I trying to say about my normal routine. I do not consider it street photography even though the subject is clearly in the middle of the street.



My brief encounter with street has me trying to find "street" in the non-street. For example, the faces in the below. I suspect the photo has little bones or structure but still has interest for me. The lady on the third row closes to the camera might be thinking what the hell is that. I identify with the little boy on the third row as I am seeing all this for the first time.

[Sam W]

how would this image compare to say, a landscape image of the Grand Tetons? Should the image only be of ONE teton? Where would our eyes land on an image of le troi tetons? I see so often people commenting on street photography with a similar comment as to 'what should we be seeing?' or 'what is the subject?'. I think it's unfair that people seem to want to restrict street photography to a limited, or specific image whereas landscape photos just get ohhs and ahhs.

Jack - I guess we share the same gut reaction(s). Thanks for your comments and I agree with the logic in your landscape comparison.

[Sam W]

Just so you know, Sam, I give you damn good.

Thanks your thought provoking comments have made me a better photographer. Trouble is I forget things pretty quickly, so please keep me on track.

[Sam W]

This to me is a strongly atmospheric well executed monochrome. The composition for me is interesting with a tension created by the 'slab' of building occupying roughly 2/3 of the image area and the small area of sky. There are lots of little stories going on here, the dog in the car, man with camera standing in the street lining up his shot, the 'Amen Street' name on the shop and more. But I can see where Janis is coming from (I think). As perpetual 'students' of photography we learn that the essence of a good street photograph should contain a story which the composition should direct us to, as in the style of Henry Cartier Bresson for example. And that we do best to try to exclude elements that are not essential to the story.
Sam's image is not that kind of composition. It contains a number of little 'stories' and invites us to observe them as we choose. The sum of these creates the atmosphere. I do like it a lot but I instinctively share Janis's need to look for a composition with all elements leading to a single theme.

Well written Neville. Thanks for commenting.

[Sam W]

I like the image too, Sam...At first I thought -- typical street shot -- when I saw that dog in the car but then I enlarged it in lytebox and looked at its lines and crevices and it is a good study of architecture of the street with that name which attracted me to open it because of your title too. The guy about to cross the road, where did he came from, where is he going? The guy in the middle of the other street and that woman he is taking a photo of, are they tourists? some human and animal elements here. Good start for a first for you...well done.

Thanks Izzie - I am glad you like it and feel is was not your typical street shot.

[Sam W]

To me the title defines this particular image; only because it was added. Without a tile we'd be free to explore as freely as we'd want, I found myself looking for a connection between the title and the image and while I found the connection it doesn't fit. I'll let others find the "Amen". I like the processing and composition.

I am glad you like the processing and composition John. Thanks for commenting.

[Sam W]

My eyes like the image.

I focus on the car and the dog first then to the people on the left then back right where I see the amen.

Nice work Sam.

Thanks Jim, I think my focus follows yours.

[IzzieK]

I like that added bonus shot there, Sam...looks like fun. Good processing too...

[Sam W]

I just 'looked' at the image, I am standing on a street corner and see this. To me that is street photography - sometimes it is to point at a specific item that catches your eye - sometimes it is simply - here is life this is what it is. We see many 'iconic' plates of times gone by that are exactly that and are lauded by those in the know. That works for me in this image I can choose where I want my focus to be to fit my personal taste rather than be 'stage directed' at a specific item that actually I may not pay serious attention to otherwise. Its not a style that I have any expertise in and I do not consider myself as a person who's opinion has any weight - but gut reaction ( love that phrase) - I like it as it is and can happily look around it and say 'hey wow did you see that, I wonder if they saw you taking that photo when they were taking one as well?' type of thing.

BUT - I really like all the expressions and feedback by everyone on this cos thats how I learn lots - and the great thing is they are all valid and important to understand to allow us all to progress.

Also apologies for hijacking - good image Sam keep on taking them.

I enjoyed your remarks. Feel free to hijack anytime. You definitely explain things well. It was not my intent to stage direct in this photo. I feel the lack of it make Amen Street interesting.