I want it!

[Mike Buckley]

I still stand by my statement that it's not possible to know. It's possible to make a highly educated guess, which I'm sure you have done. Still not possible to know.

Perhaps you didn't notice that I had already posted my skepticism that the product would sell for as little as $150.

[Manfred M]

I still stand by my statement that it's not possible to know. It's possible to make a highly educated guess, which I'm sure you have done. Still not possible to know.

Perhaps you didn't notice that I had already posted my skepticism that the product would sell for as little as $150.

Mike - it's not an educated guess. It's along the same lines of walking into a doctor's office and having him or her diagnose a medical issue by simply listening to you list off your symptoms, without any physical examination or tests. The doctor can't be 100% sure, but it is highly likely that he or she is right.

I would not classify the physician's diagnosis as an educated guess, as it involves a highly trained and experienced professional using available data to reach a reasonable conclusion. More data (additional examination or tests) could possibly improve the diagnosis, but on the other hand they could just as likely increase costs and delay the diagnosis and treatment with no added benefits to the patient.

On the other hand, if I noticed a medical condition I have and it seemed to me that I recognize the symptoms as something I might have had before, that would be an "educated guess", as I really don't have the expertise of skill set to make a diagnosis.

My background and knowledge were used to draw the conclusions I wrote. You might consider what I've done is guessing, but that is really not the case.

[Ken MT]

Did you also notice that he stabilised it with his foot as he was swinging it up. That would help the stability, but what happens when the foot is removed.

[Manfred M]

Did you also notice that he stabilised it with his foot as he was swinging it up. That would help the stability, but what happens when the foot is removed.

I did.

If you look at the design, it's just a fancy stand (not that different from a light stand) with a few joints that let it fold down and a few linkages is the base to let the base fold up. The design of the column reduces flex in one dimension only.

[Mike Buckley]

The way this discussion has evolved, I'm actually thinking about not sharing product ideas in the future that I come upon that might be helpful to others. That was my only purpose in starting the thread and, for the most part, the thread has not been at all enjoyable.

[AlwaysOnAuto]

That would be unfortunate Mike since you go places on the web I don't. I think this has been a good discussion from the standpoint that others have given their opinions of the design based on their experience. No one is criticizing you for bringing it to our attention. I actually think it's kind of a neat device, just might not be as practical as it's made out to be though.

[Mike Buckley]

No one is criticizing you for bringing it to our attention.

Agreed. Also irrelevant.

[Manfred M]

The way this discussion has evolved, I'm actually thinking about not sharing product ideas in the future that I come upon that might be helpful to others. That was my only purpose in starting the thread and, for the most part, the thread has not been at all enjoyable.

Mike - I understand your point and I would also like to suggest the flip side and where I was coming from.

Technology has been evolving in some wonderful and exciting ways. With some modern and relatively inexpensive tools I can have a prototype product that came to mind produced by a 3-D printing tool in a matter of hours. Tools like SolidWorks allow someone to take a concept and turn it into a design quite quickly and the software takes care of many of the manual engineering calculations that would have taken days to do in the past; these done instantly by the software. It can hand off the data to computerized production equipment and pieces can be produced in your own shop or in a facility half way around the globe as soon as you have finished designing it.

That is the exciting part. There is also the flip side that many people miss out on understanding. Just because one can make something doesn't mean it will work properly or meet product life expectations. A very important part of the design process can be skipped using this rapid manufacturing equipment, and that is the basic understanding of science - physics - how things work under load, how various structural elements work when forces or bending moments are applied, material characteristics, etc, etc. The software does not and can not do this. Design validation and testing (does the thing work the way it is supposed to and does it last as long as it is supposed to?) are still important issues that need to be assessed in the design process. Unfortunately, as end consumers, we have no way of knowing. I know that companies like Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc work this way, but what about the small specialty startups?

Anyone can get access to these design and 3-D printing products for relatively little money. If you can't afford to buy these things, there are service bureaus out there that have high-end and large machines and you can make anything and have the parts in your hands in a matter of days; i.e. when UPS or Fedex show up at your door with the finished product. Google Solidworks and you will get pages of people who know how to use the product (hint: this does not make them designers). Other less sophisticated software out there lets you create these products, but they lack even the basic engineering tools that one finds built into SolidWorks. You as the purchaser of the product have no idea as to the competencies of the people turning out the products.

And therein lies the problem for the consumer. I can create a prototype quite quickly and produce a glitzy looking product preview that I can show off on a website or YouTube. But will it work as advertised? BUYER BEWARE! The step from prototype to product offered for sale can be incredibly short.

When I recognize a serious design flaw (one I identified in a previous post) just by looking at the product, I get accused of "guessing" because I haven't seen the product or spec sheet. As I said before, these are not guesses, these are things I recognize after a lifetime of designing things and introducing them into production. The advantage in the "old days" is that the costs of tooling, moulds, jigs, etc. has very high, so manufacturers had to take care to get things right at product startup, they employed experts and rigorous proceses to do the design work and then manufacture the product. I definitely cannot say that with any certainty today.

So Mike, please do not take offence when I suggest that there seems to be a identifiable flaw with a product. I probably know a lot more about product design and manufacturing than some of these companies that are offering these products for sale. I'd hate to see someone spending money on a product that will unlikely work as they expect it to.

One other point - people seem to think I know a fair bit about photography. I can guarantee that I know a LOT more (I'd estimate a couple of orders of magnitude) about design, product development, production roll out, production techniques, materials. mechanical engineering, ergonomics, etc.

[Mike Buckley]

It has been a really long time since I have read a thread providing such a large amount of self-congratulatory information.

[Manfred M]

It has been a really long time since I have read a thread providing such a large amount of self-congratulatory information.

It's not meant that way at all, Mike. No more so than when you write about things you are passionate about. I was trying to provide some background to what is happening out there in the "wild" and to some extent give some background to establish my technical credentials.

One thing I have observed is that people have no issues at all when certain professionals like doctors make recommendations, but pay no attention to other knowledgeable professionals. People always seem to be less convinced of things coming from architects and engineers, until when something goes wrong and things need fixing.

[revi]

It has been a really long time since I have read a thread providing such a large amount of self-congratulatory information.

And this is the kind of posts that makes me come here less and less...

How can Manfred explain where he comes from without that "self-congratulatory information"?

[Mike Buckley]

How can Manfred explain where he comes from without that "self-congratulatory information"?

I could provide a helpful answer to that question but won't because you, he and Terry are all smart enough to already know a number of ways it can be done.

This is my last post in this thread.

[Manfred M]

And this is the kind of posts that makes me come here less and less...

How can Manfred explain where he comes from without that "self-congratulatory information"?

Revi - trying to explain the effects of elastic deflection of the free end of a cantilevered beam that has a bending moment applied to it in layman's terms is difficult. Add to that the time dependent damping of oscillations when the force is released (i.e. the photographer lets go of the camera on the mechanism) is no simple matter either either.

It's hard to tell someone who doesn't want believe you that it is possible tell all this from watching a video and looking at the basic design. Explaining how I could know with a short CV is suddenly "self-congratulatory information".

I ran into a similar situation last weekend while I was waiting to have my snow tires taken off the car and replaced with the summer tires. The mechanic came in and told someone else waiting for the same service that he needed a front end alignment and the man was rather incensed and was convinced that all the mechanic was trying to cheat and get him to pay for an unneeded service. How could the mechanic possibly know this just by looking at his car?

I wandered over to look at the recently removed tires. The wear pattern on the tires suggested that the mechanic was right and the car owner was wrong.

[Loose Canon]

I could provide a helpful answer to that question but won't because you, he and Terry are all smart enough to already know a number of ways it can be done.

How did I get involved in this? I haven't even posted to this thread until now and yet I am being chastised?

Very uncool.