Problem......I think.

[Dave A]

For the first time I put my 14mm Nikon PK-12 extension tube on my D7100 with 85mm Nikon Micro lens. Camera is set to A mode. Info screen and viewfinder screen both show an F stop of 0 and will not allow me to change it. Am I missing something here?

Thank you for any help,

Dave

[Dave A]

Oops I think the Nikon PK-12 tube is what I expected. I don't see any contact points on it to transfer the information from the lens to the camera.

Dave

[Dave Humphries]

Oops I think the Nikon PK-12 tube is what I expected. I don't see any contact points on it to transfer the information from the lens to the camera.

Exactly!

Unfortunately, I have a set of contact-less tubes, the f/0 is what I get too.

The other difficulty you may have is actually getting the lens to set a desired aperture, since most modern lenses don't have an aperture ring.

Fortunately, I have some old manual (film era) macro lenses which I use, but it is a PITA having to keep manually opening up to check focus, then remember to stop down for correct exposure and (in)adequate Depth of Field - and not move the camera even a fraction of a mm while I do that.

[DanK]

May be worth considering a set of Kenkos, if you are going to work a lot with tubes. Three sizes that can be stacked in any combination, giving you 10-68 mm, and they have contacts.

[William W]

+1 to Dave's comment about the manual Aperture procedures being painful.

+1 to Dan's recommendation of the Kenko Set of Three Extension Tubes. I have that set (for Canon) and they: are well built; have a good locking mechanism; are well machined with tight Bayonet Mounts; have good light baffles.

***

. . . Info screen and viewfinder screen both show an F stop of 0 and will not allow me to change it.

Maybe this will not work with Nikon Lenses - I don't know. I use this procedure. I am NOT recommending and I am NOT implying that others do this – make your own choices.

Regarding a procedure to stop down and hold stopped down an Auto Diaphragm lens which supports no Aperture Ring (applicable to Canon EF and EF-S Lenses and Canon EOS Camera Bodies):

1. Mount Lens on Camera

2. Power Camera ON

3. Set Camera to "M" Mode

4. Select the Aperture required

5. Depress and HOLD DEPRESSED the DoFP Button (Depth of Field Preview)

6. Release the Lens from the Camera

7. Release the DoFP Button

8. Power Camera OFF

The Lens's Aperture Blades will be held in a closed position, at the selected aperture, until the lens is re-mounted to a camera with power ON, or mounted to a Camera after which the power is turned ON.

WW

[Dave Humphries]

Hi again Dave,

With regard to Bill's '1 - 8' on setting the aperture of a modern 'automatic' lens (e.g. kit lens without aperture ring), I'd say that's impractical for anything more than one or two shots, given that with the lens stopped down, mounted on tubes, the image will be so dim, that without copious amounts of light, you'll have severe difficulty establishing focus where you need it.
I think I tried this method once (and burnt myself on the extra lighting), then swapped to using my film lenses, which as already explained, is bad enough.

As you already have some no contact tubes*, you might consider buying an old manual 50mm standard lens, that really shouldn't cost much s/h.

* I assume you cannot return the no contact tubes for a refund or swap for contact fitted tubes?

If you're serious about macro, you'll not regret getting a macro lens, assuming you get the 'best' for your intended subjects. As a very rough guide; flowers, something < 100mm will do, for insect you really need 105mm or longer, to avoid scaring them and light blocking issues. Most successful insect shooters use 150 or 180mm, but they are not cheap (or lightweight) lenses.

Cheers, Dave

[William W]

. . . With regard to Bill's '1 - 8' on setting the aperture of a modern 'automatic' lens (e.g. kit lens without aperture ring), I'd say that's impractical for anything more than one or two shots, given that with the lens stopped down, mounted on tubes, the image will be so dim, that without copious amounts of light, you'll have severe difficulty establishing focus where you need it.

Dave H,

Sorry: that my error of omitting HOW to use this technique for Macro Work with a tube and the lens that the Dave A has. I only described how to stop down the lens and how to keep it stopped down when it is off the camera.

Dave A,

If you want to use the (stopped down) lens for a macro shot, then one procedure is:

1. Mount the lens on the extension tube.
2. Attain Focus (i.e. at Lens’s Minimum Aperture).
3. Remove the Lens and if you don’t have another camera, remove the Extension Tube also.
4. Put the lens on the camera (or a second camera) and stop the lens down using the procedure above.
5. Replace the Stopped-down Lens on the Tube and make the image

The trick is NOT to bump the Focus Turret on the lens or move the camera position.

I am certainly not suggesting that this is a method worthy of constant use (unless you enjoy much pain and suffering) – I was just describing, in an ‘Oh by the way, thought I might mention this little trick . . .’, a work around that is applicable to Canon EOS Cameras and EF and EF-S Lenses, which also might work with the Nikon gear that Dave A described he was using, in the Opening Post.

All the other suggestions, like buying a Kenko Set of Tubes, or buying an old Manual Aperture, Nikon Prime Lens are much more elegant solutions: and I didn’t mean to imply anything other.

WW

[Dave Humphries]

I am certainly not suggesting that this is a method worthy of constant use (unless you enjoy much pain and suffering) – I was just describing, in an ‘Oh by the way, thought I might mention this little trick . . .’, a work around that is applicable to Canon EOS Cameras and EF and EF-S Lenses, which also might work with the Nikon gear that Dave A described he was using, in the Opening Post.

All the other suggestions, like buying a Kenko Set of Tubes, or buying an old Manual Aperture, Nikon Prime Lens are much more elegant solutions: and I didn’t mean to imply anything other.

Absolutely Bill,

I almost included the method in my first reply, but decided against (laziness, perhaps?)

Definitely worth recounting, as it is a method to get immediate results with what Dave has now.

Cheers, Dave

[Dave A]

Thank you Bill and Dave for taking the time to explain my options. I do now have a Nikon 85MM Micro lens that works pretty well. I may have to still get some extension tubes to increase the focal length to just over 100MM when needed.

Dave

[DanK]

Thank you Bill and Dave for taking the time to explain my options. I do now have a Nikon 85MM Micro lens that works pretty well. I may have to still get some extension tubes to increase the focal length to just over 100MM when needed.Dave

Dave,

almost all true macro lenses sold today have a maximum magnification of 1:1. Therefore, the size of the image is identical at minimum working distance is identical, regardless of the focal length you choose. What changes with focal length is the minimum working distance. You will get VERY slightly more working distance with a 100mm than with an 85mm, other things being equal. It will also give you slightly more background blur (as distinct from less depth of field). For all practical purposes, 85 and 100 mm are pretty similar.

When you add an extension tube, you DECREASE the minimum working distance--the opposite of what happens when you choose a lens with longer focal length. And unlike choosing a longer focal length, adding tubes does increase magnification, by letting you focus closer.The normal formula for the amount of magnification doesn't work with macro lenses, which typically move the elements forward when focusing close. (Essentially, they work like tubes, but internally.) However, as a rough indication, if you add the full 68 mm of a Kenko set to a 100mm macro (which is what I use), you will get a bit more than 2:1, I think. The shorter the lens, the more the boost in magnification from any given length of extension.

Perhaps what you had in mind was a telextender or teleconverter, which does increase focal length.

I do more macro work than anything else, and I find it complicated enough that I wouldn't routinely go through the procedure that Bill describes. I use tubes with contacts, so I don't have to add this complication.

[William W]

. . .The normal formula for the amount of magnification doesn't work with macro lenses, which typically move the elements forward when focusing close. (Essentially, they work like tubes, but internally.) However, as a rough indication, if you add the full 68 mm of a Kenko set to a 100mm macro (which is what I use), you will get a bit more than 2:1, I think. The shorter the lens, the more the boost in magnification from any given length of extension.

Yes. If an approximation is OK, then it easier to measure it rather than to calculate it (just take two photos of a ruler). With my EF100/2.8M and 68mm tubes I recall that it measure out to be 2.2:1

You (DanK) use Canon too, I think?

Different manufactures' lenses (but the same FL) may give a slightly different result.

WW

PS -

I wouldn't routinely go through the procedure that Bill describes. I use tubes with contacts, so I don't have to add this complication.

Good advice - I did it a couple of time just to see if it worked!

[Dave A]

Thanks guys, great information. I need all I can get because I find macro photography fascinating. So as far as gear I'm well on my way. I have the Nikon 85MM micro lens, ring flash, tripod and monopod, and the will to learn. Not to mention the help I get here from the members. I will most likely order the proper tubes soon.

Dave

[DanK]

Dave,

You may find it helpful to follow this forum: http://www.dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23. It has some superb macro photographers. They have posted a number of tutorials, and I have read lots of very useful stuff in various threads there.

In my experience, two things are even more important than that equipment: patience, and a tolerance for frustration. It's a lot harder with things that move, like bugs, but even flower macro takes a lot of trial and error at first.

Dan

[William W]

Dave,

One general point that I would like to add: you already have an 85mm (specialist) Micro Lens. I assume that gets you to 1:1

Adding Extension Tubes to a Macro Lens, will get you more magnification, as has been explained, AND it brings you closer to the Subject: but in many shooting scenarios adding tubes to a Macro Lens will also result in a more difficult shot to take – usually, either because of the Closer Working Distance or the Shallower Depth of Field, or both.

When you only want a little bit more magnification than 1:1 - rather than adding (just for example) a 12mm tube to your 85mm Micro Lens - for most shooting scenarios you’d probably be better off making the shot with the Micro Lens and not using the Extension Tube and simply cropping the file in Post Production.

WW

[DanK]

Bill is right: tubes make things harder. My standard advice for people starting out is to skip tubes until they are really comfortable with the macro lens at minimum working distance. (there's usually no reason to use tubes if you are not already at MWD.) Then start with the shortest you have, which is usually 10 or 12 mm. Stick with that until you have that mastered. Then go a little longer. Etc. It takes time. At least, it took me a lot of time.