Flower picture

[Ann Marie TN]

I went for a walk a long Elk Creek and took this picture of a Knapweed:




I have problems with depth of field, macro & super macro. Sometimes I get that superb shot and other times it's blurry...the close up is blurry but the rest of it is in focus.

Taken with a Fujifilm SL 1000.

Any suggests or comments would be helpful.
Thank you!

[Inkanyezi]

I recognise the problem, as for a long time I used a compact always. Particularly when using contrast detection auto focus, as compact and bridge cameras always do, sometimes there is better contrast in the background than at your assumed subject. I first noticed it as I took a picture of my bike at the bike-stand outside, but the camera focused on the grass behind. Grass is a lot of tiny straws, with a shadow of each and every one of them just nearby, which gives splendid contrast for focusing. I tried to avoid it by choosing my AF point carefully, and once when I did this on a subject that I thought would be contrasty enough, the camera focused at the background lawn, which of course had better contrast.

In this case, the AF point was wider than the head of the deer, which otherwise is quite contrasty.



When shooting flowers, I think you can mostly wait a little for the camera to focus with the button half pressed, to make sure you get the right object in focus. If the camera allows you to shrink the AF point to make it very small, you might have the possibility to avoid any background within the AF point.

[Geoff F]

Perfect flower photography is a very difficult subject, Ann Marie. Even with top of the range equipment it takes experience plus some trial and a lot of error to get exactly what you want.

Firstly, remember that the background is as important as the main subject. So watch out for any bright spots, which includes reflective pale dead stems or leaves. Make sure the background is well blurred, unless it becomes part of the subject. This means very careful use of aperture settings; not just click on auto and hope for the best. But blurring the background can mean a loss of foreground focus depth.

When there isn't too much wind, I often do a merge of 2 or 3 different focus points; but that also requires suitable software.

The alternative is to do a bit of 'gardening' around the scene before shooting. If you can't get everything in sharp focus you will need to carefully leave some things out. So I remove any problems. Either by physically cutting the item or simply bending it sideways out of the final scene. Some cropping and other editing is usually needed.

Auto focus frequently causes problems. Manual focus, preferably on a tripod, is best. But what if you only have an auto focus compact camera?

In that case, make sure you are definitely focusing on the required area. AF tends to focus on the sharpest close object, so a sharp edged stone for example can over ride a soft edged flower, as Urban has mentioned. A tripod is still the best option but if hand holding, make sure your shutter speed is sufficient for holding and for any subject movement.

This means you have to consider both shutter speed and aperture together. Which often means adjusting the Iso setting. Fully auto cameras can tend to regard having a low Iso as being most important; which will produce the wrong shutter speed or aperture for the scene.

Finally, always consider a closer crop to remove problem areas. For example with this scene, try a closer crop on the main subject to exclude any unwanted or badly focused/exposed areas. Possibly cropping to a different size ratio such as 4 x 5 ratio or maybe square would definitely help with the composition.

[Ann Marie TN]

Thank you for the comments...I'm still learning and the points you both brought up were spot on. I guess in all honesty I get a little frustrated trying to figure out the AF, manual, etc. I do want to learn my camera better and I do so enjoy the photography...it's very relaxing for me. I guess I have to take the bad pictures with the good. One of these days I'll master that Fujifilm camera. What I like about this forum is that I "think" I took a good picture, but you are pointing different things out that I could have made it even better. And I truly appreciate that. Here is another picture from the same day

[Ann Marie TN]

[chauncey]

Everything that Geoff said is worthy of taking to the bank, but I would add a couple of
things should you desire to progress to the next level. Always use a tripod, shoot during
the "golden hours" and finally, learn and use post processing.

It should go without saying that the advice offered is relevant only if your insane enough to
be serious about this ludicrous hobby.

[billtils]

Generally good advice other than the "always use a tripod" - why? This is an oft-repeated mantra that I can see at least 2 reasons not to follow slavishly. First is that hand held forces you to use a fast shutter speed which in turn leads to wider aperture and better bokeh; secondly there are some situations where a tripod just won't work because of the scene (e.g. ground level shots, and sloping/unstable ground conditions being two that spring to mind.

Just another perspective - not intended to "dis" the advice others have given here.

[xpatUSA]

Good job on the focus and also the grouping of the main/secondary floral items and the shading of the leaves.

I felt that the bright sky and the almost black background were tending to overwhelm the subject, so I cropped a bit and lightened the background just a bit:



Now, the main flower seems to be more dominant, d'ya think?

[Geoff F]

Exactly what I was thinking, Ted.

Although there may be another alternative with a 4 x 5 ratio and lose part of the right hand bloom. It is so out of focus that it is really part of the background.

[Ann Marie TN]

Thank you...I guess I'm not into cropping pictures, I like nice full pictures. Is that old school??

What are considered "golden hours" and what is "post processing?"

[xpatUSA]

Thank you...I guess I'm not into cropping pictures, I like nice full pictures. Is that old school??

Well yes, Ann-Marie, but "old school" is when the camera had a roll of film in it which cost us money to get processed and people generally tried to get the composition and framing of a shot correct each time they pushed the button. If that second flower shot you got was what you fully intended, please ignore my cropped version.

What are considered "golden hours" and what is "post processing?"

I believe that the "golden hours" are generally considered to be when the sun isn't giving harsh lighting. So, morning and later afternoon perhaps.

"post processing" refers to further work done on an out-of-camera image by an editor, assuming that the said image is not to your satisfaction, or needs something like sharpening or color balance adjustment, etc, etc, ad naus. Or you snapped some deer but were further away than you would have liked, thereby necessitating a little cr**ping

[Helen Kolb]

Auto focus frequently causes problems. Manual focus, preferably on a tripod, is best. But what if you only have an auto focus compact camera?

In that case, make sure you are definitely focusing on the required area. AF tends to focus on the sharpest close object, so a sharp edged stone for example can over ride a soft edged flower, as Urban has mentioned. A tripod is still the best option but if hand holding, make sure your shutter speed is sufficient for holding and for any subject movement.
.

Apologies for interjecting in the conversation of your lovely image Ann Marie, but Geoff's comments are exactly what I am looking for..... Thanks for the helpful explanation Geoff. I recently found a whole series of images taken on auto focus actually out of focus! Are your comments regarding auto focus also true for using zoom lenses? That they focus on the closest object? The whole image seems to be out of focus though and I can't work out why? Thanks again for your helpful comments, Helen

[george013]

Apologies for interjecting in the conversation of your lovely image Ann Marie, but Geoff's comments are exactly what I am looking for..... Thanks for the helpful explanation Geoff. I recently found a whole series of images taken on auto focus actually out of focus! Are your comments regarding auto focus also true for using zoom lenses? That they focus on the closest object? The whole image seems to be out of focus though and I can't work out why? Thanks again for your helpful comments, Helen

If you can use zoom lenses you probably have no compact camera.
Roughly there are 3 auto focus modes: AF-A, AF-S and AF-C. In AF-A the camera decides where to focus, that's what Geoff is referring to. AF-S you decide where to focus on. AF-C is continious focussing, meant for moving objects. Check the manual of your camera for those words.
If all the image is unsharp, it could be also you where to close, depending on the behaviour of your camera.

George

[IzzieK]

Helen, I would advice you to google Exposure Triangle to get a good idea of how you can mix Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO coupled with Exposure Compensation (EC). Then you will understand how and when you use them. I started with that...sitting down in my deck and focusing on for instance on an object with a cloud background. If your camera has an RGB Highlight option, you can watch the blinkers to try to eliminate them by adjusting either Aperture or SS or even upping your ISO until the blinking disappears... just a thought ...

[Inkanyezi]

If you can use zoom lenses you probably have no compact camera.
Roughly there are 3 auto focus modes: AF-A, AF-S and AF-C. In AF-A the camera decides where to focus, that's what Geoff is referring to. AF-S you decide where to focus on. AF-C is continious focussing, meant for moving objects. Check the manual of your camera for those words.
If all the image is unsharp, it could be also you where to close, depending on the behaviour of your camera.

George

Most compact cameras have a zoom lens, but the actual case is what's usually called a bridge camera:

EXIF IFD0

Camera Make = FUJIFILM
Camera Model = FinePix SL1000

Just as compact cameras, bridge cameras mostly don't have all the different modes of a system camera. Generally, they only focus by contrast, and not all of them permit the user to set an appropriate focusing point. Many however let the user choose a single focus point, and some of them let the user move that point or maybe in rare cases also alter its size. I don't know what possibilities the FinePix SL1000 offers, but some of them are surely presented in the manual. Whether the camera focuses with the shutter release half pressed or not is something to try out. Some compact and bridge cameras do this, others not. Some even have a way of locking focus.

For the bridge camera, when shooting flowers, often it is easier to get a calm background by backing off a bit, not using its "macro" mode, which usually works only at wide settings, but instead using its long tele mode, which isolates the flower better from the background. Most bridge cameras have a very narrow angle when zoomed in.

I think JBW has shown us rather graphically what a bridge camera can do.

[george013]

Most compact cameras have a zoom lens, but the actual case is what's usually called a bridge camera:

EXIF IFD0

Camera Make = FUJIFILM
Camera Model = FinePix SL1000

Just as compact cameras, bridge cameras mostly don't have all the different modes of a system camera. Generally, they only focus by contrast, and not all of them permit the user to set an appropriate focusing point. Many however let the user choose a single focus point, and some of them let the user move that point or maybe in rare cases also alter its size. I don't know what possibilities the FinePix SL1000 offers, but some of them are surely presented in the manual. Whether the camera focuses with the shutter release half pressed or not is something to try out. Some compact and bridge cameras do this, others not. Some even have a way of locking focus.

For the bridge camera, when shooting flowers, often it is easier to get a calm background by backing off a bit, not using its "macro" mode, which usually works only at wide settings, but instead using its long tele mode, which isolates the flower better from the background. Most bridge cameras have a very narrow angle when zoomed in.

I think JBW has shown us rather graphically what a bridge camera can do.

The photo was made by Ann Marie, my reaction was to Helen.
The important thing is the differences between the main AF modes. When you know how they are called, you can search for them.

George

[Ann Marie TN]

Ted - thank you for explaining the reasoning behind cropping pictures. I have done a few but not tons of them.

I'm glad I came to this website...I have had such a good experience with each of you and I'm slowly learning the ins & outs of Aperture, focus and a few other things that I never thought of trying.

Thank you to everyone that has commented on this thread.
Ann

[Helen Kolb]

Thank you to everyone that has commented on this thread.
Ann

I agree with Ann Marie (and also glad I found this site although still a bit intimidated by the fabulous images posted) - all so very helpful, thank you George and Izzie for helpful comments, Helen

[colinharris]

Stunning!