Graduated ND filters

[joebranko]

Thinking of buying my first ND graduated filter. Are the screw on ones worth considering? The prices are more attractive and they seem more convenient to use.
Your comments and advice much appreciated.

[dje]

Thinking of buying my first ND graduated filter. Are the screw on ones worth considering? The prices are more attractive and they seem more convenient to use.
Your comments and advice much appreciated.

Joe I wouldn't recommend a screw on version - you have no scope to adjust the position of the neutral density transition relative to where the bright areas of the scene meet the darker areas.

The slide in square filters require a bit more kit but once you get used to using them they are easy to work with.

The only thing is that I'm not sure whether you could use a square holder on your Canon kit lenses as the front of the lenses may rotate as focus is changed.

Dave

[Polar01]

Joe I use the Lee filters and have for quite sometime now and I have pretty well the whole nine yards. That said I often will just hand hold one against the lens for a quick shot, and often move it up and down to blur the transition line. I would get a hard instead of a soft 3-stop. Soft are great for mountains but as you are in Ontario like myself the hard is better. Now the size to get is the 4"wide (100mm)x 6" long (150mm) that way you have the graduated and full filters it just depends on where you set the transition line. If it works get the lens adaptor rings you need and the Foundation Filter kit. The best ones to get are the 2, 3, and 4-stop filters with that you mix and end up with 5, 6, 7, and 9-stop (almost the big stopper 10-stop).
As a side note check out the link provided they are really helpful came across them a few years ago and still use them for any filter needs I have.

http://www.2filter.com/

Cheers: Allan

[Manfred M]

Joe - I'm in total agreement with the advice you have been given.

I bought a circular ND when I first started out, but quickly figured out that its only advantage is size.

I switched to Lee filters afterwards and (both hard and soft grads; 1, 2 and 3 stop) and use these exclusively now. I might pick up an inverse grad for sunset shots sometime.

[William W]

similar comments . . .

Thinking of buying my first ND graduated filter. Are the screw on ones worth considering?

I wouldn’t.

The prices are more attractive

Yes, but buying the wrong tool is not a bargain.

they seem more convenient to use

On first glance yes it seems so but they are not – all the main reasons are written above.

Your comments and advice much appreciated.

If you want targeted advice, then more details are required, especially the Lenses that you will be using and the Genre of Photography and expected Shooting Conditions that you expect when using the GradND Filter.

WW

[joebranko]

Joe I wouldn't recommend a screw on version - you have no scope to adjust the position of the neutral density transition relative to where the bright areas of the scene meet the darker areas.

The slide in square filters require a bit more kit but once you get used to using them they are easy to work with.

The only thing is that I'm not sure whether you could use a square holder on your Canon kit lenses as the front of the lenses may rotate as focus is changed.

Dave

Thanks Dave. You are right, the lens front does rotate when focussing.

[joebranko]

similar comments . . .


I wouldn’t.


Yes, but buying the wrong tool is not a bargain.


On first glance yes it seems so but they are not – all the main reasons are written above.


If you want targeted advice, then more details are required, especially the Lenses that you will be using and the Genre of Photography and expected Shooting Conditions that you expect when using the GradND Filter.

WW

Thanks Bill. I guess the only lens I can install a grad. N
D filter will be my Sigma 17-70mm. I do mainly landscapes and feel that I could improve my sunset and sunrise pics with the addition of a grad ND filter.

[Polar01]

Joe the Lee holder rotates so you do not have to worry. The usual method is to focus then mount the filter holder to the lens adaptor ring.

Cheers: Allan

[joebranko]

Joe - I'm in total agreement with the advice you have been given.

I bought a circular ND when I first started out, but quickly figured out that its only advantage is size.

I switched to Lee filters afterwards and (both hard and soft grads; 1, 2 and 3 stop) and use these exclusively now. I might pick up an inverse grad for sunset shots sometime.

Thanks Manfred. Another question if I may...why an 'inverse' grad?

[joebranko]

Joe the Lee holder rotates so you do not have to worry. The usual method is to focus then mount the filter holder to the lens adaptor ring.

Cheers: Allan

Yes! Of course! Thank you Allan! Is the holder sized to match the adapter ring or does one size fits all?

[ST1]

Yes! Of course! Thank you Allan! Is the holder sized to match the adapter ring or does one size fits all?

The Lee filter holder/holders clip on to the adapter with a spring loaded device, rather like a door handle sneck

[Polar01]

Joe the adaptor ring that holds the filter holder are all the same size, it is the thread size that changes, example 52mm ring, 67mm ring and a 77mm ring, all the same size to hold the holder but different sizes to fit different lens thread sizes.
Now as to a reverse ND filter, instead of it being darkest at the top than fading lower down, it is darkest at the middle, quickly fading upward and fading very quickly downwards. This results in a harder to produce item thus they are very expensive compared to regular GND filter.
Singh-Ray is one of the few to make them, see link:

http://www.singh-ray.com/shop/daryl-...nsity-filters/

Cheers: Allan

[dje]

Joe I have one 3 stop reverse grad but I rarely use it. It's designed to reduce the exposure around a very bright horizon eg when the sun is just about to rise or when it has just risen. In the latter case, you would need more than 3 stops to tame the brightness of the direct sun though.

Dave

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Hoping on this, if you don't mind, Joe, as it is something I am also considering. Lots of useful information already on here.

How well do ND grad filters work with complex skylines, as opposed to nice, flat horizons? Would it cause more trouble than it's worth?

[William W]

I use a Grad ND Filter exceptionally rarely.

To be useful and flexible a Grad ND has to be used in a Filter Mount, which sits proud of the front element of the lens and that is a concern *(see my major concern, last paragraph of this commentary).

I think that these Filters are way over used. The useful Dynamic Range of a decent Digital Camera is quite large - a (now old) EOS 5D typically has in excess of 7 stops for high quality work, around 9 Stops for work of good quality.

With third party additions,(for example from Magic Lantern) the DR can be extended.

Additionally I think for difficult scenes, it is wise to consider the various Capture and Post Production techniques, for example, but not limited to HDRI (High Dynamic Range Imaging), if one wants to "extend" the DR.

Also (referencing the EOS 5D again) employing ETTR (Expose To The Right) will allow a recovery in the highlights of at least ⅔Stop.

Also it is so very simple to set most Modern Cameras to automatically pull an Exposure Bracket.

Additionally even the rudimentary of Post Production Programmes available allow for quite sophisticated: dodging; burning; saturation; hue & colour control etc.

Whilst it is possible to get scenes that have a DR in excess of 10 Stops, even 12 Stops, those scenes are quite rare and in any case it’s my view that it is easier and safe to pull three, five or seven shots at that moment in time without using a Grad ND Filter - and then take the time and put the effort into the digital darkroom honing the image. (Even though I don’t like taking time in Post Production all that much).

* My major concern is plonking a Grad ND Filter in front of the Lens only to find out that it was in the wrong place and or it created: Ghost Images; Reflections or Veiling Flare - - - and to find that out when I get back from the site and that the Shot can never be repeated.

WW

[Polar01]

William as for your major concern I have not had any problem maybe it is your "exceptionally rarely" use is the problem, if you do not practice you can not get good at what you need to do. If I thought that is was going to be an never repeated shot, I would use the holder, to get it in the correct location you just look through the viewfinder and at the max you might only hand hold the filter for a few seconds.
I have never seen a shot yet that needed more than 4-stops, If I use anything greater I am trying to get a certain look, say moving water or clouds to blur in those cases I would up 5-stops and upwards. There have been times where I have used two 10-stop in very harsh light to get a certain look. Normal use would be in the 2 to 4 range depending on the look that you are going for.

Cheers: Allan

[William W]

William as for your major concern I have not had any problem

Understood. That's good, I suspect that you are careful.

I also rarely have any problems with Ghost Images, Veiling Flare and Reflections, whether it be during making shots where I might consider a Grad ND Filter, or not.

*

maybe it is your "exceptionally rarely" use is the problem, if you do not practice you can not get good at what you need to do.

The points in my previous are predicated on the fact that I do have various Grad ND Filters; I have experience and I do know how to use them; I have various Filter Holders and numerous set of Filters, for 135; 645 and 6x9 Format cameras and I have two fully enclosed Matt Boxes and comprehensive set of High Quality Square Filters.

All that taken into account, I choose to NOT use Grad ND Filters very often and that choice is not any problem for me.

My conscious choice NOT to use a Grad ND Filter very often, is based on a rationale to limit potential errors and to have an easier workflow and is predicated on all the (other) technologies which I have available to use, instead of a Grad ND Filter. These all were all clearly mentioned in my previous, which was a general response to Max's question asking if Grad ND Filters could be more trouble than they are worth: my opinion is yes, for most Digital Capture with Modern Cameras, they are.

*

If I thought that is was going to be an never repeated shot, I would use the holder, to get it in the correct location you just look through the viewfinder and at the max you might only hand hold the filter for a few seconds.

I don’t trust my eye to pick up everything when looking into any viewfinder on a DSLR or SLR to always reveal all Ghost Images, Reflections and Veiling Flare.

Moreover, I find that the Viewfinder Image - OR - the LCD Image especially NON REVEALING when looking to preview any shot in a shooting scenario where one would be considering using a Grad ND Filter - because those shooting scenarios most often have hard strong light and strong contrasts - AND - that particular Ambient Light Environment is not the best condition for LCD / Live-view preview.

WW

[William W]

Joe and Max (and Allan) - FOR CLARITY

1. Joe asked a question concerning screw-on Grad ND vs. slide-in Grad ND - I wouldn't consider using the former and would only consider using the latter.

2. Max asked a question about usefulness of a Grad ND for staggered horizons - I answered generally that I don't think Grad ND Filters are much use at all for the advanced Digital World nowadays, there are other options which are better and easier for me.

3. Allan posed that it could be my lack of use and lack of knowledge of Grad ND Filters as being the reason why I am concerned about using them: that’s an incorrect assumption, but I consider it useful to Joe and Max for Allan to make that point and to raise that question to me, and also and to articulate his procedures and experiences.

Often the written word is misunderstood, so just so there is no misunderstanding here - I think that Allan and I have each put forward useful commentaries to allow the Joe and Max to make informed choices.

WW

[pnodrog]

I am with William (call me Bill) on this. I own an assortment of graduated, colour correction, warming and effects filters left over from film days using a medium format camera and like Bill certainly know how to use them. A couple of neutral grads and ND still sit in my bag but are seldom used. In fact if it was not for the ND I would probably leave them and the holder at home . My coloured grads have been retired completely. Why one would bother to buy a screw on grad amazes me.

Probably the only time I would dig out a grad in preference to exposure bracketing followed by PP is if the subject is moving. Due to technology I would certainly not invest in a company manufacturing filters with the possible exception of some very specialised filters. (not a big problem for me as I have no money to invest anyway....)

[IzzieK]

The only filter that I use nowadays is a circular polarizer on each of my lens. I still have my old Nikon brand filters from back in the days (of films) which I had already retired to the shelves. Why use a graduated filter when you can do your proper shoot without it and can adjust the shine of objects via a circular polarizer...anything else, you can do via post processing. It is cheaper too because you already have it as part of your arsenal of special effects there +some. But if you insists on still buying this kind of filter, buy a proper slidey one. I used to have a Cokin brand (also now retired...)