Canon 30d vs Canon T5?

[LittleMaOf4]

hello. I am a semi-novice photographer who was given a used canon 30d about a year ago by a professional photographer friend who upgraded. I love this camera and find that it takes pretty decent photos (considering the very standard lenses I have). What I am wondering is would it be considered an upgrade to move from the 30d to a T5? I know that the Rebel series are considered beginner DSLR cameras but the T5 has more MP and a few other options that the 30d does not. I am trying to get started with doing some professional-ish work and I am wondering if I would be losing much going to a T5 vs the 30d I am currently using.

[William W]

1. What Lens(es) do you have?

2. What Jobs do you intend taking on?

3. What is your Budget?

Sure the 1200D is a much newer sensor, bit that doesn’t mean that the 30D is incapable of producing saleable images, I still sell images out of my 20D, so your money might be well spent on a newer camera, but it might be better spent elsewhere, depending on various elements, the main three being the answers to the questions above.

Notwithstanding those points, the FUNCTIONALITY of the 1200D is different to the 30D and that might not be something that you either like or it might be as suitable for your intended work.

The 1200D does have a few options that the 30D doesn't have, the 30D has a few options that the 1200D does not, Spot Metering is one, that would be important to me, for example.

WW

[chauncey]

Good glass comes first as bodies come and go, then learn post processing...then a new camera.

[rpcrowe]

I agree with Bill and Chauncey! The 30D is still a very viable camera that is capable, when combined with good lenses, of producing very good to excellent imagery! The operative statement is "WHEN COMBINED WITH TOP-LINE LENSES!"

I shot with the 30D and 40D cameras for years until I upgraded to the 7D models.

If I were you in order to prepare for some pro work , I would plan my spending as follows:

1. Upgrade lenses. I would look into EF lenses with the expectation that someday I would go full frame.
2. Equip yourself with a decent hotshoe flash + bracket and diffuser-reflector.
3. Get a second camera 40D, 50D or 7D (in order of price) I would not contract for any pro jobs without a second camera. Perhaps, I might investigate full-frame at this time but, you could equip yourself with a 40D quite a bit less expensively than a full frame camera.

I would not try any pro job before my equipment reached this level. Only then would I look into upgrading the 30D - I would probably look into full frame cameras at that time.

I will admit that I did like my 40D better than the 30D. However, the 30D produced some very nice images for me Here is a selection of 30D and 40D images shot in Hong Kong using a combination of 17-55mm F/2.8 IS and 70-200mm f/4L IS LENSES:

https://rpcrowe.smugmug.com/Travel/C...our-2010-Hong/

BTW: I personally prefer the 30D, 40D, 50D and 7D cameras to any of the Rebel versions - primarily because of the double dial adjustment capability. IMO, these cameras also fit my hand better than the Rebels. However, this is not to imply that the newer Rebels are not capable of excellent imagery!

[Donald]

As others have suggested, you're not going to get the same funtionality (how it does things and the ease of making settings adjustments) with the T5 as you do with the 30D, If your desire is to onwards and upwards in terms of your photographic endeavours, then I'd suggest that going for the T5 would be a backward step, not progress.

[proseak]

Here are a couple of reviews from DPR;

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/cano...700d-rebel-t5i

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d

I have both the 550d and the 600d - they're not bad. High ISO is likely better than the 30d, btw

[William W]

Here are a couple of reviews from DPR;

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/cano...700d-rebel-t5i

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d

I have both the 550d and the 600d - they're not bad. High ISO is likely better than the 30d, btw

The OP quoted EOS T5, not T5i.

The EOS T5 is the EOS 1200D. Although the EOS 1200D is in a similar in some ways to the EOS 550D; EOS 600D; EOS650D; and EOS 700, it is not the same lineage as those cameras.

The EOS 1200D (T5) is preceded by the EOS1100D (T3) and the EOS 1000D (XS).

WW

[LittleMaOf4]

Thanks for all of the input.
Currently I am using the Canon 18-55mm IS kit lens, a 55-250mm IS kit lens, a 70-300mm non-is lens and a 50mm f/1.8 lens. All pretty low budget stuff. I do intend to upgrade as funds become available
The "professional" stuff that I've done are primarily candids, family photos and senior photos. This is what I enjoy most. For fun I enjoy some landscape photography.
One of my "problems" with my 30d is that for me it's really heavy...I've got tiny kid-size hands so sometimes it's hard for me to manage especially with my bulkier 70-300 lens on. That's one of the reasons I was entertaining one of the newer Rebel cameras...they are about half the weight (or so it seems) and a little bit more compact. Reading all of your posts though I'm thinking I should maybe just stick with what I have for now.

[William W]

Thanks, your last either answers or implies answers to my three questions.
A few more specific comments

. . . using the Canon 18-55mm IS kit lens, a 55-250mm IS kit lens, a 70-300mm non-is lens and a 50mm f/1.8 lens.

I’ve used all those lenses, except the 70 to 300. Is the 70 to 300 a CANON LENS?

There are several models of the EF 70 to 300 and I have used them all – however there are also several models of the EF 75 to 300.

If your lens is actually an EF 75 to 300 and it does NOT have IS then it is probably an early version and those are not well renowned for general IQ.

That brings me to the EF-S 55 to 250 IS, it should be a better lens all round, than any of the EF 75 to 300 lenses and at 250mm at the long end not that much shorter in FL so you could crop the difference in Post Production. The EF-S 55 to 250 used at F/8 to F/10 is a very good lens, so that’s one redundancy that I suggest you consider.

All the (three?) versions of the EF-S 18 to 55 are cracker lenses when used at F/8 to F/10 and all represent great value for money.

So provided you are at or around F/8, or F/6.3 in the longer Focal Lengths when using the two Kit Lenses, both those lenses will provide you with an high standard of image quality.

The EF50 F/1.8 MkII also is a good lens and I guess you might be using that lens for Senior Portraits and the like – I see no need to change that lens as any matter of urgency.

*

The "professional" stuff that I've done are primarily candids, family photos and senior photos. This is what I enjoy most. For fun I enjoy some landscape photography.

One consideration where you’d benefit especially for candids and family photo shoots would be using a Standard Non Varying Maximum Aperture, Zoom Lens.

Canon make and EF-S 17 to 55 F/2.8 IS USM, but there are also third party equivalents the TAMRON NON VR version being an excellent optic and representing great value for money.

*

One of my "problems" with my 30d is that for me it's really heavy...I've got tiny kid-size hands so sometimes it's hard for me to manage especially with my bulkier 70-300 lens on. That's one of the reasons I was entertaining one of the newer Rebel cameras...they are about half the weight (or so it seems) and a little bit more compact.

That makes exceptional sense and is a logical consideration. I have a woman who second shoots for me on occasions and she is a wiz with any xxxD Camera yet cannot cope using my 5D Series or xxD Series cameras – all to do with her small hands.

However, that stated, I think that you would be wise to make detailed investigations apropos the FUNCTIONALITY differences between the xxD / xD Series and the xxxD Series and think about what suits you the best.

Also, I think that you should take note of my mention that the T5 (1200D) is NOT of the same series as the xxxD cameras – and my view is IF you choose a smaller, lighter weight, more compact DSLR, you’d be better looking at the xxxD Series than any of the xxxxD Series .

One other topic that we have not discussed is Flash, you’ll need to have some budgetary component for that, for the expansion of the work that you are doing.

WW

[Adrian]

Amy, you mention you have small hands. My also did not appreciate the weight of semi pro cameras (never had a 30D but we started in digital wit a 40D) and we bought a 750D ( I think it was) last year. She takes pictures every day as she is developing a garden. And what camera does she choose? She invariably gets out my 5DIII - which is much larger and heavier (similar body to your 30D really). The reason is that she finds good quality glass is quite heavy and unbalances the lighter camera. You might well find the same and I think you would find the Rebel a step in the wrong direction. So, its important to try out what works for you in the hand, especially once you start to acquire better glass.

[DanK]

You've gotten good advice, and I have only a little to add.

In the Canon brand, there are actually 4 levels to consider, in my opinion:

1. The various Rebels
2. 60D (crop), 70D (crop), 6D (FF)
3. Prosumer or professional crops (7D, 7DII)
4. Professional full frame: 5D3 and up.

Let's start at the top. The controls and ergonomics of 3 and 4 are very similar, and they are clearly the best. The main differences in terms of handling and ergonomics are size and weight. There are some differences in image quality, but they are not huge unless you print very large or shoot in low light. So, if you do decide to accept greater weight and size for the best controls, you might want to consider sticking with a crop sensor. However, I would try both, with a variety of lenses, before deciding. I have both, and I prefer the larger size, but I am large and have big hands.

The Rebels are at the other extreme: lighter and smaller, but with substantially inferior controls. It just takes more time to change settings and get things as you want them

I have never used the 60D, 70D, or 6D, but my understanding is that they fall somewhere in between in terms of ergonomics, controls, weight, and size. However, in the case of FF, the 6D also lacks the high-end AF that you get in the 7DII or 5D3.

Having used cameras in groups 1, 3, and 4 extensively, I personally would never go back to the controls in the Rebel line, but again, size is less of an issue for me.

[William W]

. . . she finds good quality glass is quite heavy and unbalances the lighter camera. . . its important to try out what works for you in the hand, especially once you start to acquire better glass.

Good point about Balance and Weight distribution of the entire rig.

The Second Shooter to whom I referred, usually uses a (comparatively) light weight and well balanced Tamron 17 to 50/2.8 Zoom or the (very light weight and short barrel) EF 35/2 Prime. On the other hand, she agrees with me that the 135/2 on a 5D Series is a perfectly weighted and balanced combination, but is a tad messy to control easily when that lens is on her Rebel Series Cameras.

Also she has her head around being able to adjust the Aperture and Shutter Speed without her eye leaving the viewfinder - that does my head in, but each to their own way of doing things

WW

[inkista]

Currently I am using the Canon 18-55mm IS kit lens, a 55-250mm IS kit lens, a 70-300mm non-is lens and a 50mm f/1.8 lens. All pretty low budget stuff. I do intend to upgrade as funds become available

Yasss. Probably looking towards upgrading your glass is a good thing. But what I'm seeing is really missing here is lighting gear. Because...

The "professional" stuff that I've done are primarily candids, family photos and senior photos.

Just me, personally, but I think you may want to consider getting a flash and/or reflector, at least for the senior photos. If you haven't found it yet, and already have a flash and bounce it all the time, I'd highly recommend reading your way through at least some of the Strobist blog. And if you have no flash experience at all, start with Neil van Niekerk's Tangents website. Really. Lighting will be far more transformative for portrait shooting than any camera body or lens. Because the camera and lens mostly can just handle the light that's there. Flash lets you control the light to be what you want.

One of my "problems" with my 30d is that for me it's really heavy...I've got tiny kid-size hands so sometimes it's hard for me to manage especially with my bulkier 70-300 lens on. That's one of the reasons I was entertaining one of the newer Rebel cameras...

BTW, there's a camera that's even smaller/lighter than a T5: the SL1/100D. It's probably even more of a step down than the T5 from your 30D, though.

I too, suffer from tiny little girl hands that hurt with the weight of my 5DMkII and 50D and L glass (I've been suffering from repetitive stress injury for well over 15 years). What I'm about to recommend is going to sound insanely expensive, and it might be--you may have to leave it for after you get income from the photography and can write gear off on your taxes as a business expense. But possibly consider switching to or adding a mirrorless system.

dSLRs beat the pants off mirrorless for fast action (and TTL off-camera flash, but you mostly do manual anyways when shooting portraits). But mirrorless beats the pants off dSLRs when it comes to being compact and light. My Canon bag o' gear is roughly 20-30 lbs. My micro four-thirds bag is roughly 5 lbs. Both of those bags can have 3-4 lenses, two bodies, and a flash. Now, mft has the compromise of a smaller (2x crop) sensor, but also has smaller lenses.

Sensor technology has reached a sufficiency where you may be willing to trade off a lot of size/weight for some high ISO performance/resolution you weren't really using .

Here's a shot of Larry Marder, taken with a single off-camera flash (I threw a 8" softbox on the flash) in the middle of Comic-Con's busy dealers' room. I used my old Panasonic G3 and my Olympus 45/1.8 (basically the equivalent of my EF 85/1.8 USM on my 5DMkII, only with more DoF). Note how the flash made it so I didn't have to push the ISO, and could use the lens stopped down--where most lenses perform a little better and you have enough DoF for a crisp image.


DMC-G3, m.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. iso 200, f/4, 1/160s (sync speed on that body. blech).
Yongnuo YN-560 in 8" softbox, triggered with Yongnuo RF-602s.

You may want to stop and consider whether or not a Sony NEX e-mount, Fuji X, or Olympus/Panasonic micro four-thirds camera might work for you. Right now, you haven't yet invested in any expensive glass that would make moving to another system seriously problematic. Just a thought.

But maybe get a flash, and learn to use it, first.

[William W]

Top quality; all encompassing; thought provoking reply, Kathy.

Nice shot. Great light. Love the Background.

*

. . . But maybe get a flash, and learn to use it, first.

Yes. I concur.

WW

[inkista]

Thanks, Bill! It's funny how I keep being the proponent of learning lighting in "what camera do I buy?" threads, given that I'm not typically a strobist. But it's mostly just part of the bigger argument to be made for newer shooters that it may not be a camera or a lens that you really should be shopping for, but possibly a flash, tripod, class, or book...

BTW, this is the environment I was shooting in.



Too much background to choose from.

[William W]

Yes I agree: In general many new photographers default to the conclusion that the solution to making better Photographs and learning more of The Craft, is simply achieved by buying a new lens or updated camera model.

I think it is good that you are a constant proponent of learning lighting: I mentioned in Post #9 that the OP should put aside some of the budget for Flash, but that tit-bit of advice could be easily missed.

***

(ASIDE)

Although you might consider yourself not a ‘strobist’ . . . you are famous, well known, world renowned, at least down here:

The last couple of workshops I’ve done on the topic of Location Off Camera Flash Techniques, I break the ice with an Introduction predicated on my (absolutely embellished) story about this particular talented, but quirky Photographer, located San Diego, who has a very precise preparation technique for any of her Off Camera Flash Shoots and I encourage them to follow her preparation technique.

Then I show them this:



Then, in situ, they must to set their cameras appropriately for the Ambient Light and the Model, WITHOUT using a Light Meter . . . and so we proceed to learn.

WW

[inkista]

Hee hee hee. I completely forgot about that post.

[William W]