Pixie-Izzie Project 52, Week 2

[IzzieK]

Congratulations on your new camera Izzie, when you have a bit of spare time could you pop over here and sort out the shelves here please

OK...free board and lodging and a photographic tour of your village for a week will be good...if only I could photograph the dust you all did not see, you will be disappointed...OK...seriously I have 4 days to do a reshoot...

[IzzieK]

I went to the op shop (Goodwill) yesterday looking for a black and white doggie that I might want to practice on as per Richard Crowe's instruction on how to photograph pseudo-doggie, the furry toy kind and along with my other purchase, I saw these soup cups. I was at a lost as to what I will do for my Week 3 Project theme and was looking at some links I had saved and one article about lighting came up. It's called How to Photograph Ceramics and 3-Dimensional Products with One Light. It is a text instruction (no video) and since I have the lights for it, I decided to use my little teenie weenie studio to do it. I had learned something but I still need your input as to how I could have done better or something. In short, I am begging for a C&C...please...I followed the instructions to the letter but I seem to get lost somehow when I saw the results so I did some masking and blurred the background instead because of my excitement in shooting this kind, I forgot to change my settings from this morning's foray...I hit myself in the head for not doing this right so -- there here it is...mistakes in settings on my camera and all...please be harsh...I am not begging for any special kind treatment so I will learn to remember little things can make a whole of a heck of difference.

Thank you.

[Brownbear]

Hi Izzie,

Just to say it is great to see you posting pictures. As you know I don't have any experience in this type of photography but I I think it is a very cute image, nicely focused with soft colours and shadows.

I'm not crazy about the blurred look of the background especially in the upper right side of the image. I also see soft lines around the cups?

Sorry that I can't offer any expertise but I just wanted to comment because I think it is great that you are doing a project 52, and posting pics... And these cups are so adorable I bet you will have fun photographing these every which way.

[wilgk]

Hi Izzie
They are cute aren't they, I'm with Christina in that I think the blurring of the background in post has not gone as well as you would like & softened the edges.
I'm wondering if you were to try it again & maybe mix it up, by choosing a bit of "light this, but not that" in that I mean play around with the face of one cup lit, maybe on a higher stand so some sort, then the second cup in the fall off of light area, so only half lit and that one could be upside down maybe?
Just quick thoughts off the top of my head, so sorry if I'm not making cohesive sense, but I see it as much a posing/positioning challenge as it is a lighting one. One part of the technique supports the other.

[purplehaze]

Izzie, I would echo Christina in saying it is great to see you posting your images. The cups are a great subject and contrast nicely with each other. I commiserate with you over the settings thing. Still, given my bias towards minimizing work in PP, I would be inclined to start over, from the top. I am learning to check my settings not once, but twice. In fact, I have become so absorbed with my settings that I am losing sight of my subject! But it'll come together, for us both, with lots and lots of practice. I imagine we will always make mistakes, but they will become fewer and farther between as time goes on.

[FootLoose]

I can't help with the lighting aspect as I have no experience with that, but I want to say I like your subject, Izzie.

Regarding the blurring: you seem to have halos around the cups. I wonder if they could be eliminated if you had used the pen tool to mask the edges of the cups before applying the blur?

[IzzieK]

Thanks all...I will do a reshoot and do it until I get this one right, promise...I am just disappointed with my go around to access the RAW file via On One because although it saves it as a PSD file, I can't see the usual actual pixels no matter how wide I go. I do but not like the ones which Photoshop actually has? This is my first time on using one light shot and I think I now know where I skipped an instruction...

[Mark von Kanel]

Thanks all...I will do a reshoot and do it until I get this one right, promise...I am just disappointed with my go around to access the RAW file via On One because although it saves it as a PSD file, I can't see the usual actual pixels no matter how wide I go. I do but not like the ones which Photoshop actually has? This is my first time on using one light shot and I think I now know where I skipped an instruction...

Hi izzie, i think youve actually lit the subject quite well and its the actual background that lets the image down. you could try shooting them in a more cluttered warmer setting or even go super modern with reflection and graduated grey background similar to some of the shot of glass that we see on here, they might even work better on a soft black background....

Looking closely i can see a dark halo around both cups, whats causing that?

Are you still having problems converting your images to DNG? how is onone comparing to PS?

[TonyW]

I like the feel of the background here. The colours and softness of the background suits the subject and the general effect is very nice.

There is a problem which I have had myself in a similar situation where at the edge of a round object like these there is some specular reflection from the light background. This makes the edges look soft. I don't know of any solution except some cloning to get rid of the reflections but that would be rather fiddly.

[IzzieK]

OK...I did a reshoot but of a different cup of soup kind. I used the denim version I have. After many shots per session, I am still frustrated at the result so I really need help here. The blue version is Take 3 :

Blue version:


This Grey Version is Take 5:


My problem on the both images is that the blue version is actually a black background and the grey version is actually a white background. I can't make them black nor white!!! Help. Please???

And also the grey background? I can't seem to eliminate the shadow? I used to know how to before but lack of practice...downstairs in the dining room, we have a long table -- all I do was move the object further from the background and I was successful then...here I cheated. Instead of the one light source, I used two. On the surface I thought I was able to eliminate the harsh shadow, but zooming in from my camera, it was there laughing back at me...

How does one eliminate harsh shadow? I used a continuous light with sort of like vellum or silk on top of the umbrella so the light will not be harsh. If remove that skirt covering the light, the umbrella is like foil.

Help? Anyone...????

[FrankMi]

I don't think I can offer any valuable criticism but I must say that your choice of subjects makes me smile!

Good for you for getting to week three! I'm still wrestling with finding a subject for week three!

EDIT: OK, I got off my anatomy and finished one of my photography projects sufficiently to post P51 Week Three. I just needed a shove! Thank you Izzie for the encouragement!

[purplehaze]

Izzie, you have a great collection of soup bowls! Re your WB issue: What WB setting are you using? Are your two lights the same colour temperature? What kind of ambient light is there on the scene? These are just some of the factors that can influence the colour of your image. I'm guessing you are shooting under mixed light conditions, in which case you might want to do a custom white balance using a grey card.

As far as the shadows go, the closer the light source, the harsher the shadows will be, even if they are diffused. As you are using continuous light, it should be easy to move the lights around until you get the shadows falling where you want them to and with the desired softness. It is liable to be harder to control the direction of bounced light from an umbrella, though. Have you tried aiming your light directly at your subject with your diffuser between them? I suggest you start with one light and move the light 1) in an arc around your subject; 2) back and forth and 3) up and down (not necessarily in that order), to find your optimum direction and softness. Play with the light before you get behind the camera. When you are happy with the position of the first light, then start playing with the second, if you wish, to see what different effects you can apply. But there are many things you can do with just one light and it might be best to experiment with them all before you add a second. This is all I can suggest from my limited experience; hope you find it helpful.

Edit: Actually I can suggest one other thing and that would be to set up a reflector opposite your one light source, to bounce light back onto the away side. This too will help to soften your shadows, and even eliminate them. Again, with your light source positioned where you want it to be, play with your reflector a while before you get behind the camera, angling it this way and that on both the horizontal and vertical planes. You will be amazed at the variations. Then you have the challenge of holding your reflector where you want it to be, which is when you might want to call your significant other in to lend you a hand. Me, I have to improvise.

[Loose Canon]

The only way you are going to be able to control the color of the BG Izzie is to get some separation between your subject and the BG.

What is happening is you are getting light spill to the BG. You can make a white BG black, or gray, or white. You can make a black BG white, gray or black depending on how much light (if any) hits it. If you want your BG white you need to light it. To do that you’ll have to get the subject away from it. Now, you could do it in post, but that would defeat the purpose of learning how studio lighting works.

Hard shadows are a product of hard light. Soften the light and soften the shadows. Get the subject away from the BG and eliminate the shadows on the BG. In the previous double coffee cup shot there are shadows but they are soft.

Is the blue version purposely blue? You said you used two lights. Where were they? If using continuous lighting, unless you are shooting in a completely dark room ambient is going to play a role due to the relatively long shutter speeds required. I was shooting a flash/continuous combination set-up recently. Had them matched up pretty well. In a dark studio. I had to make an adjustment so I turned on a single incandescent overhead bulb to have some extra light to see. Forgot to turn it off before I shot my next set and noticed after about three shots something was way off. The single bulb was making a noticeable difference in the white balance. And this was a pretty big room too. Quite frankly, I was surprised at how much difference it made!

I would highly recommend that those shooting with lights and want good comments, bts shots would be very helpful.

[IzzieK]

Izzie, you have a great collection of soup bowls! Re your WB issue: What WB setting are you using? Are your two lights the same colour temperature? What kind of ambient light is there on the scene? These are just some of the factors that can influence the colour of your image. I'm guessing you are shooting under mixed light conditions, in which case you might want to do a custom white balance using a grey card.

Thank you...I love soup bowls. I used flash for the second bowl, the grey version...now I am seeing the light here......thank you. I think I used Cloudy on the blue version...then I decided to change the WB because I was inside my studio. The only other light was the window and it is such a cloudy day outside it wouldn't have matter. Yes I have the same light colours and same models in all of my three lights, one of which I did not use, put aside near the door because it was in my way...

As far as the shadows go, the closer the light source, the harsher the shadows will be, even if they are diffused.

I see now where I made a mistake because I just re-read my instructions again and it says "The subject should be in the center of the background and near where it begins to sweep up." I put it very near the background. <slap in the wrist>>>

As you are using continuous light, it should be easy to move the lights around until you get the shadows falling where you want them to and with the desired softness. It is liable to be harder to control the direction of bounced light from an umbrella, though. Have you tried aiming your light directly at your subject with your diffuser between them?

Yes did that. I thought it was OK on the blue version. But I had a hard time doing it on the grey version. I thought it was OK in my eyes but at the back of my camera there is a zoom button to determine whether the shot is sharp or not. After 40 shots, (or 20 excluding NEF) I still have that shadow very clearly...even when I uploaded the images on my computer.

I suggest you start with one light and move the light 1) in an arc around your subject; 2) back and forth and 3) up and down (not necessarily in that order), to find your optimum direction and softness. Play with the light before you get behind the camera. When you are happy with the position of the first light, then start playing with the second, if you wish, to see what different effects you can apply. But there are many things you can do with just one light and it might be best to experiment with them all before you add a second. This is all I can suggest from my limited experience; hope you find it helpful.

Well you got me thinking of my many options...thank you. It is a big help.

Edit: Actually I can suggest one other thing and that would be to set up a reflector opposite your one light source, to bounce light back onto the away side. This too will help to soften your shadows, and even eliminate them. Again, with your light source positioned where you want it to be, play with your reflector a while before you get behind the camera, angling it this way and that on both the horizontal and vertical planes. You will be amazed at the variations. Then you have the challenge of holding your reflector where you want it to be, which is when you might want to call your significant other in to lend you a hand. Me, I have to improvise.

Actually I was using two small reflectors, interspersing them with one another to find the drop of the shadow. Now on hindsight I should have used my big reflectors instead, Maybe it would have helped me better but I was then thinking that I do not have much room to go around even if I have a reflector holder that hubby made for me last year. I will have to reshoot this soup cup thingie on a wider area like my dining room or something. I have more room there...

Thanks for your help....I really do appreciate it very much...

[Shadowman]

Nice bowls, if you want the background to remain black you need to move the subject further away from the background so that light doesn't fall upon it.

[IzzieK]

I was hoping you'd come to my rescue Terry...

The only way you are going to be able to control the color of the BG Izzie is to get some separation between your subject and the BG.

I realized that now...I feel like a dork after my duh!! moment...

What is happening is you are getting light spill to the BG. You can make a white BG black, or gray, or white. You can make a black BG white, gray or black depending on how much light (if any) hits it. If you want your BG white you need to light it. To do that you’ll have to get the subject away from it. Now, you could do it in post, but that would defeat the purpose of learning how studio lighting works.

Now you tell me...oh boy!

Hard shadows are a product of hard light. Soften the light and soften the shadows. Get the subject away from the BG and eliminate the shadows on the BG. In the previous double coffee cup shot there are shadows but they are soft.

Is the blue version purposely blue?

No actually I want it black because my fabric is black. I was experimenting actually on which background would emphasize the curve of the mouth of the bowl, black or white. I have a background holder that holds two fabrics, black and white with a jumbo clip on each side so all I have to do is slide the background I want to use to one side and then use the one I preferred.

You said you used two lights. Where were they? If using continuous lighting, unless you are shooting in a completely dark room ambient is going to play a role due to the relatively long shutter speeds required. I was shooting a flash/continuous combination set-up recently. Had them matched up pretty well. In a dark studio. I had to make an adjustment so I turned on a single incandescent overhead bulb to have some extra light to see. Forgot to turn it off before I shot my next set and noticed after about three shots something was way off. The single bulb was making a noticeable difference in the white balance. And this was a pretty big room too. Quite frankly, I was surprised at how much difference it made!

I have a set of continuous lights, one headlights and two of the same height. They have the coiled white light in all of them, foil coloured if you remove the covers. I ended up using the other short lighting because it was horrible with just the head light. Now that you mentioned it, the room I was using have two rail lights I can use to direct an extra overhead light, one is located just behind my backdrop holder and the other on the side near the door. I shut them both. I was shooting just after noon around 2pm...so it was still daylight.

I would highly recommend that those shooting with lights and want good comments, bts shots would be very helpful.

Like Allen...yes. I have another set of lights but they are for flash, not continuous. This time I used continuous lights and my studio is really tiny...the smallest room in the house, used to be hubby's den, now it is mine because I tossed him downstairs to the formal receiving room. I was so happy then, but not now...I want the dining room...!! I will get there...one day...the house is in my name too...

Thanks Terry...I appreciate your help very very much...

[Loose Canon]

No worries Izzie! Your tracking right and I am totally thrilled to see you doing this!

Something else you might consider is that with tabletop shooting you don’t always have to have a background at 90 degrees.

If you have the right camera angle your surface will also serve as a background.

By way of example, and if I can explain it good enough, if you were to lay whatever-you-used for your sweep flat on a tabletop, and raised your camera angle, the surface becomes the background.

This pitcher was shot on a flat surface, which served as a BG as well as a surface. Closest thing I have to your soup bowl to show! There was no sweep or 90 degree BG. This technique can also help you eliminate shadows on your BG.



And just to mention, the surface is a flat piece of black opaque plexiglass. I lit it such that it went from white to gray with a gradient. This was done just with the lighting.

You should be able to tell I lit it from behind causing the reflection(shadow) to fall in front of it. The shadow area of the reflection is the only place that approaches black, which is the actual color of the plexi. It is also an example of what I mentioned earlier about lighting and BG control.

[IzzieK]

Thanks Terry...I will try this kind of angle after we get home from the vet today. And see how I go. I will post results for you to see, OK? I've always wondered about reflections taken from the camera instead of added in post processing. This work is excellent! I will continue to study different lighting angles too...That is what I lack in practice having all these gears...and life getting in the way. It will be a good exercise...

[IzzieK]

OK...Terry and Janis... thanks again for your great help. I took your advice and tips seriously no matter the tone of my message.

Janis, this morning I looked at my studio... Do I make my table stay the way it was or do I rearrange it so that I have more room to move my object forward away from the edge of my backdrop? Just one question that popped from my mind. Then I decided to take your advice to just go around, move my lights around, look at the shadows falling, etc. then adjust the position of my lights up, down, to the sides...and so on and so forth, before even going to look at my camera. Not that I got rid of my soup cups but I got these two to pose for me since I am only dealing with studying shadow reduction here...this is a full shot, no editing of any kind. Also no cropping either, just saving it as a jpeg file and easily zoom-able to see shadow reduction and sharpness. So almost RAW...



Terry...I will try to find a way to get a nice crystal to photograph later on for show using your technique and I have a shiny laminated posterboard I can use in place of plexiglass. Then ask for your opinion. It is a touch and go day today and maybe tomorrow and I need something to keep me busy. I will be back...

[IzzieK]

I am still in limbo as to how to cure my background colour naturally straight from the camera so I took several more shots and these are my picks...both of them used only one light and an open window...and one I turned to B/W. What do you think?

1. colour shot...



2. Black and White shot...



Some editing done on both but I think I got it -- decreasing the shadows, I mean...what do you think? Yeah...yeah...I'll give Brownie Nose a bath later on...