Learning to Photograph Mountain Scenery - Continued Part 2

[Brownbear]

Following are a few mountain scenes, photographed on the backcountry trails of Blackcomb, from a view point (gondola ride) on Whistler mountain, and also from the Al Habrich Trail in Squamish.

All photographed Aperture Priority f/8 ISO 100 Focal length 80-120 mm or 300 mm...

I would appreciate feedback on improving the compositions. I had company on this hike and less time to think about compositions.

My challenges were a lot of haze and harsh sunlight (for many of the images)... I followed Mike's suggestions for reducing haze (increasing contrast, temperature, and decreasing brightness) which kind of took my images in a different than usual post processing direction but it seemed to work... I also used local contrast enhancement to.

For Mikes tips on haze reduction please see
Minimizing & Eliminating Haze

1.



2. Cropped (sky and trees in the foreground)



3. Cropped (sky and trees in the foreground)



4.



5.



I would appreciate hearing which images are stronger. This time around there are 3 images that I like, and 2 that I think are duds but I'm not sharing until I hear others thoughts on these.

Any kind of general feedback to help me improve my skills for these types of images is truly appreciated. Don't let yourself be swayed by the beautiful scenery.

Thank you.

[Shadowman]

#4 is the strongest for contrast of image and majestic view of peak. 1,2, 3, and 5 are nice, have a monochrome treatment with #5 being best of that series, however the cloud above the peak gives the appearance of a smudge at first glance. Nice captures.

[Manfred M]

I agree with John; #4 is the strongest image, with the sun lighting the rock face. All of your shots are a bit "muddy", set the black point and white point correctly in post and the image will be a lot stronger and will have more "pop".

[Mike Buckley]

The compositions insofar as the shapes of the mountains are concerned are quite effective. You have progressed very far in the last year.

Having said that, if the first one was mine, I would crop at the top to eliminate the top clouds.

More about Manfred's helpful comment and edits...

All of your shots are a bit "muddy", set the black point and white point correctly in post and the image will be a lot stronger and will have more "pop".

I don't advocate that everything has to pop. However, when dealing with haze, there are only two possibilities that are appealing to me. One situation is when the haze is an attribute that provides either a helpful background or interesting lighting of the subject. The other is a situation when the haze is effectively removed from the image and it's that situation that requires pop. In all of these photos, the haze provides neither interesting lighting nor background, so, in my opinion, you're better off going for pop as Manfred recommends.

When you see images such as these when it feels almost like you're looking through a thin layer of gauze placed in front of the image, my experience is that the black point, the white point and/or the mid-tone contrast almost always need attention. Those characteristics of the tone curve are the three essential ingredients of an image that pops; if the tone curve lacks either one of them, the image also lacks pop.

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

You have a tendency that you want a photograph to display the colors as you remember them in a scene when you photographed it. When capturing scenes that have a lot of haze, that presents a particular quandary for you: the presence of the haze not only is a color that you do not want to replicate in the photo, the haze also limits the dynamic range in a way that you don't want to replicate.

So, you have only two choices now that you have understandably decided that you don't like haze: either don't take the picture or alter it so significantly during post-processing that it no longer resembles the colors or the dynamic range that you experienced.

To demonstrate my point that relatively effective images can be made that bear no resemblance to the colors or dynamic range that you experienced, consider the monochrome version of your first image minus the top layer of clouds. I made this image far too quickly, as you can see by the lack of detail in a few areas. Even so, hopefully it helps support my point that you need to get away from the requirement in all situations that the photo replicates the scene.

[Manfred M]

Christina - Just to add to what Mike has said. At this time of year, there is a lot of humidity in the air and that puts a haze over everything. Head back when the first frost hits, and the air clears; the difference is absolutely amazing.

I had only been to the Rockies in the late spring and summer before, but had a business trip out to Calgary a couple of years ago in mid-October. I had to fly in a day early to make an early Monday morning meeting, and chose to take a Sunday morning flight, that gave me about half a day to get as far as Peyto Lake. I couldn't believe how much clearer the shots were and without doing anything major in post, the shots were just perfect. Remember, your camera is far more sensitive to the haze than your eyes are; you won't see it, but your camera sure will record it.

Fog and haze can be a compositional element; and in that case leave it in and work the image so that it works. If on the other hand, it dulls and flattens your image; have a look at your black point and your white point. That is often all it takes. Mike is quite right, sometimes you have to set you middle point as well to get the balance you need in the shot.

[bnnrcn]

I couldn't stop myself from commenting when I saw what you did Mike Your conversion is so nice that it makes me think that I might as well shoot only in B&W in the future

Christina I will comment on your images later because I have to go out , I just logged in because Mike's B&W conversion made me so

Christina,

You have a tendency that you want a photograph to display the colors as you remember them in a scene when you photographed it. When capturing scenes that have a lot of haze, that presents a particular quandary for you: the presence of the haze not only is a color that you do not want to replicate in the photo, the haze also limits the dynamic range in a way that you don't want to replicate.

So, you have only two choices now that you have understandably decided that you don't like haze: either don't take the picture or alter it so significantly during post-processing that it no longer resembles the colors or the dynamic range that you experienced.

To demonstrate my point that relatively effective images can be made that bear no resemblance to the colors or dynamic range that you experienced, consider the monochrome version of your first image minus the top layer of clouds. I made this image far too quickly, as you can see by the lack of detail in a few areas. Even so, hopefully it helps support my point that you need to get away from the requirement in all situations that the photo replicates the scene.

[bnnrcn]

Hi Christina My favs are #1,#4 and #5. I would crop the sky as Mike suggests in #1. I also like Manfred's edits. Actually nothing much to say because you have improved in time and this can be seen in your images. May be you need just a little more time to be more aggresive with the sliders of your software

[Marie Hass]

Dear Christina,

I just wanted to tell you that in my humble opinion, the image should be as you wish it to be. While it is good to understand how to be technically correct, having a vision is most important (thank you, Mike).

'Rie

[Mike Buckley]

While it is good to understand how to be technically correct, having a vision is most important

And often if not usually more difficult to achieve

[Manfred M]

And often if not usually more difficult to achieve

And achieving both; now that gets downright difficult at times...

[Mike Buckley]

And achieving both; now that gets downright difficult at times...

I wouldn't know how difficult it is to achieve both. I gave up on doing that a long time ago.

[Mike Buckley]

A very quick "thank you" to Binnur so we don't draw an undue amount of attention away from Christina's images.

[Brownbear]

Just to say thank you to all for your helpful advice, guidance and also for sharing your preferences, before I reply individually to Manfred and Mike.

First off I would like to say that my favourites of this set are #1 and #3, followed by #4 for the light on the mountain peak. With respect to #4 I think that I missed the shot because of odd framing (limited by a view through the trees).

The big dud in my mind was #5. This peak is Black Tusk, a gorgeous view in reality and to my mind just an unattractive rock in my image. So I'm quite surprised that it is one of the preferred images.

Marie... With respect to vision. Thank you. I agree it is just that I'm struggling with developing a vision of my own.

Binnur... I also like Mike's b&w edit, albeit the trees in the foreground are a bit too dark.

John... Thank you as always.

Thank you John, Marie, Manfred, Mike and Binnur!

[Brownbear]

Hi Manfred,

Thank you for advising and sharing. Truly appreciated.

I did raise the black point in post processing, and also the white point but I can see that it was not enough. I like your edit of #4 but #5 is just too black for my personal preferences. I think I tend to lean towards higher key images but I can't figure out how to do these well with scenery like this. So I guess I have some kind of vision but I just don't know how to get there.

However, this is a good lesson for me. I've been advised many a time that my images lack pop. #4 was photographed in nicer light. #5 likely at 12 Noon, and haze...

Thank you for your help and guidance, and especially for the sample edits.

I agree with John; #4 is the strongest image, with the sun lighting the rock face. All of your shots are a bit "muddy", set the black point and white point correctly in post and the image will be a lot stronger and will have more "pop".

[Kaye Leggett]

Hi Christina.
Looking just at the compositions, I think no. 1. has too much foreground, no 2 doesn't have a focal point to draw my eye, no 3 and 4 are just right and no 5 I think your peak is too central and perhaps I would lose some foreground. Hope this helps a little

[Brownbear]

Hi Manfred,


Thank you for sharing. Very helpful to know. Unfortunately the backcountry trails to access these areas are closed about mid-September until early Summer/late Spring due to the challenging terrain. The only way I could get up there would be to hire a helicopter which is beyond my budget. However, I can take a gondola ride to a view point in one of the areas so I will try that, and or just visit the smaller mountains in my area and try again. Thank you for the tips on working with fog and haze as a compositional element, fog I adore, haze not so much but I will work on figuring it out.

Thank you Manfred!

Christina - Just to add to what Mike has said. At this time of year, there is a lot of humidity in the air and that puts a haze over everything. Head back when the first frost hits, and the air clears; the difference is absolutely amazing.

I had only been to the Rockies in the late spring and summer before, but had a business trip out to Calgary a couple of years ago in mid-October. I had to fly in a day early to make an early Monday morning meeting, and chose to take a Sunday morning flight, that gave me about half a day to get as far as Peyto Lake. I couldn't believe how much clearer the shots were and without doing anything major in post, the shots were just perfect. Remember, your camera is far more sensitive to the haze than your eyes are; you won't see it, but your camera sure will record it.

Fog and haze can be a compositional element; and in that case leave it in and work the image so that it works. If on the other hand, it dulls and flattens your image; have a look at your black point and your white point. That is often all it takes. Mike is quite right, sometimes you have to set you middle point as well to get the balance you need in the shot.

[Brownbear]

Hi Kaye,

Thank you. Very helpful. I do have lots of different compositions of #5.. Vertical, to one side, etc. So perhaps I will sit on this one and revisit at a later date. The challenge is knowing how to make a black mountain peak in harsh light and haze look pretty. (:

Hi Christina.
Looking just at the compositions, I think no. 1. has too much foreground, no 2 doesn't have a focal point to draw my eye, no 3 and 4 are just right and no 5 I think your peak is too central and perhaps I would lose some foreground. Hope this helps a little

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your encouraging words. I too would crop #1 as advised but I left it as shot so I could receive guidance on cropping.

And also thank you for advising on haze. I will try to figure out how to make it work, or just not photograph mountains in haze. I have to find a "pop" that I like.

The compositions insofar as the shapes of the mountains are concerned are quite effective. You have progressed very far in the last year.

Having said that, if the first one was mine, I would crop at the top to eliminate the top clouds.

More about Manfred's helpful comment and edits...



I don't advocate that everything has to pop. However, when dealing with haze, there are only two possibilities that are appealing to me. One situation is when the haze is an attribute that provides either a helpful background or interesting lighting of the subject. The other is a situation when the haze is effectively removed from the image and it's that situation that requires pop. In all of these photos, the haze provides neither interesting lighting nor background, so, in my opinion, you're better off going for pop as Manfred recommends.

When you see images such as these when it feels almost like you're looking through a thin layer of gauze placed in front of the image, my experience is that the black point, the white point and/or the mid-tone contrast almost always need attention. Those characteristics of the tone curve are the three essential ingredients of an image that pops; if the tone curve lacks either one of them, the image also lacks pop.

[Shadowman]

The big dud in my mind was #5. This peak is Black Tusk, a gorgeous view in reality and to my mind just an unattractive rock in my image. So I'm quite surprised that it is one of the preferred images.

#5 has a bit of a face within and reminded me of The Fallen from the Transformer movies.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/pho...-1280-1024.jpg