Question: What to look for when post processing

[Disles1]

Can anyone suggest a good book(s) that outlines what to look for when post processing? For example, when you have a photo on the screen how do you know what needs improvement, and the steps you take - in post processing - to bring that photo up to its best potential?

I'm thinking more along the lines of sparkle, depth and colour rather than cropping and composition.

[Manfred M]

Ken - I wish I could say I knew of one, but unfortunately, I don't.

Most of the PP books tend to be "cookbooks" that tell you what the various functions and commands do, rather than how to apply them to get. Some of Scott Kelby's training videos demonstrate how he applies the tools, but I'm not sure if the books cover that off.

My experience tells me what you are looking for is a combination of experience, skill and personal taste. There really is no "right answer" to how to improve things, past some basic compositional concepts that are also applied during the image capture stage. If I gave three experienced retouchers the same image, other than perhaps a few obvious, mechanical things, they would all end up with a different output. It could be a "look" that is really your "trademark style" (something I've seen with certain wedding photographers, although this starts with image capture).

In many ways, you are looking at what is really "artistry", and that will vary from artist to artist.

[Mike Buckley]

I agree with Manfred.

My best recommendation is that you begin by reviewing photos of the master photographers as a starting point. If doing so doesn't inspire you, try the photographers who are not part of the mainstream and, as a result, may never be considered master artists.

As you do that, keep in mind that it's not that you want to know what to look for when post-processing; it's that you want to know what the post-processed photo will look like before you press the shutter release.

I realize that that can be a conundrum at first, so consider what you would do if you were using brushes, oil paints and a canvas. You wouldn't begin putting paint on the canvas until you knew what you had in mind. Similarly, in an ideal world, you wouldn't release the shutter, much less begin the post-processing, until you know what you have in mind.

Even so, continually releasing the shutter and doing the post-processing can eventually lead, with enough perseverance, to developing an idea of what you want the outcome to be.

[Glenn NK]

Ken:

I agree with Manfred - nothing obvious comes to mind - perhaps it's just a matter of trial and error, but that can be a long and tedious route. Again what Manfred said about artistry applies, however I have found some books to be quite helpful.

I use Lightroom exclusively, and have found the books by Martin Evening on LR to be very good. He tends towards teaching concepts rather than specific techniques, which once understood can be used to more effectively use the tools.

Now that I checked, Evening has written PS books in addition to LR:

http://www.amazon.com/Martin-Evening/e/B004598HAM

One thing to keep in mind; the great artists knew all about the concepts and the techniques. Without these, creativity is a struggle if it's even possible at all.

Glenn

[Shadowman]

The best way to know what to do in post processing, if you don't have a natural eye for spotting differences, is to get personal feedback from your images, follow-through on post-processing tutorials, and then develop a personal style you want to create.

[DanK]

I agree with the good advice the others have posted, but I will add a bit. The question is not "how do I know what to look for," which is where you started, but rather 'how do I get what I am looking for?', which is where you were headed at the end of your post.

However, I switched to digital only about 6 years ago, and I still remember how perplexed I was when I started to learn how to do postprocessing. Not only do different photographers have different goals; there are often many ways to accomplish the similar things. I remember often thinking, 'oh no, what I have been doing isn't great, this is the right way to do it, and so I have to learn this to.' I think it is a plague of left-brained people, of which I am certainly one. For example, I went through this time after time with different sharpening methods, before I finally realized: there is no right way, just different ways, and the more of them you know, the more tools you have to accomplish what you want.

You wrote this:

I'm thinking more along the lines of sparkle, depth and colour

That's a much better starting point. There are lots of tools that affect these: contrast, local contrast (clarity in Lightroom-speak), sharpening, and vibrance/saturation, for the basics. The best way to go about this, IMHO, is to find whatever tools you like best (books, videos, courses, whatever) to learn how these tools are manipulated in the software you own, and then practice with them to see what effects you like. What you like may run counter to what most people tell you, which is just fine.

the one place I disagree with the others is that I think one can often get from tutorials something you can also get by looking at other people's photographs and by asking for criticisms of your own work: new idea about appearances you might want to create. The purpose of the tutorial may be mundane, e.g., teaching you how to use split toning, but the images used as examples may give you ideas of effects you want to try to create. For example, Jeff Schewe's The Digital Negative: Raw Image Processing in Lightroom, Camera Raw, and Photoshop is an amazing book that shows just how far one can go in postprocessing with nothing more than Lightroom. I'm working through it now, and apart from a lot of information about techniques, it has given my ideas about how I might want to process images of my own. Left-brained as I am, I will take these ideas wherever I can get them.

[Brev00]

What software are you using? I use Elements which features Adobe Camera Raw. Rob Sheppard's guide to Adobe Camera Raw was invaluable to me but, if you use another system, will probably not be your book of choice. A couple of points may be helpful. One, do not be afraid to adjust the sliders. One way of knowing what works is to move a particular slider too far. Then, you know that setting is wrong and, bringing it back slowly, you feel the image coming together. For me, probably the single most impactful slider, as I gathered from Mr. Sheppard, is the blacks slider. He is of the view that many images are underprocessed in terms of blacks which leads to weak colors. What your software calls blacks, I do not know. Terminology can vary between systems. Rob Sheppard has been an editor of Outdoor Photography as well as an author of numerous books so you can find articles on this topic in the magazine's archives, I would think, as well as in his guides.

There are many other important steps that seem pretty standard: get a neutral white balance (use the dropper on a white spot in the pic), adjust the exposure so the brightest whites are just on the edge of clipping; clean up any significant noise before sharpening. This all assumes you are starting with a raw file. How to process a jpeg to perfection is not something I have given much thought to in a long time.

[Manfred M]

Just to add a few thoughts to my previous comments:

When it comes to photography (and frankly most other "skills"), there are really two distinct skills that have to be mastered; the technical aspects and the artistic aspects. The technical can be taught, but having merely learned them, does not make one a competent photographer, as practice is then required to master these taught skills. Part of the learning process here also involves watching how others approach the situation and then figuring out how to replicate these skills in a way that works for you. The obvious approach here is to look at other's images and "reverse engineeing" how they got there and trying recreate their work.

The side that can't be taught are the processes that seem to work at a subconcious level. Practice (lots of practice) and something I will call "natural talent" come into play here. Natural talent may speed the process of getting there, but practice (with observation, analysis and self-criticism) will get you there as well. This is really where Malcom Gladwell was coming from when he wrote that it takes 10,000 hours to master a skill.

The problem in trying to teach these areas is that much of the process seems to be sub-concious. It's not applying a formula or using a recipe out of a cookbook; competencies are a start. There is a great difference between a competent cook and a great chef.

Rather than concentrating on the PP side, let me sugges another are of photography that is somewhat similar and delve into that a bit; precompostition; i.e. recognizing a "good shot" when you are checking out a location. When I first go into photography I was always amazed how a good photographer recognized a scene and then pulled out some magnificent images. Just like recognizing what PP techniques and tools to use and how to use them, precomposition is something that just develops. No one can tell you why they knew that a pose or scene had potential; they just do.

Now for a bit of a "warning"; basic PP skills are every bit as difficult to learn and apply well as compositional and technical camera skills. The process is often iterative; i.e. you build up an image over time. There are lots of false starts (I still scrap a lot of my efforts before I get the image I want). Often (in fact usually) it will take me seconds or a few minutes to get an image looking the way I want it to; at other times, I will poke away for hours or even days and get an inspiration as to how to do something to get a result I like. I will sometimes put a piece aside for days, weeks and even months while my subconcious is grinding a way at it. Sometimes, I just give up, because as much as I would like to, I can't get something looking the way I want it (and have actually gone out and reshot it) I revisit old work from time to time because I have figured out some other way I want to approach the image.

This is probably not the answer you want, but in my case, this is how I've gotten to the point in my skills.

[tclune]

I'm certainly no master of PP, so consider the source. But typically, I have a particular subject that I wanted to highlight when I took the photo. In PP, I am trying to recreate the effect that subject had on me when I took the photo in the first place. Sometimes, I need to add more subject isolation by increasing the background blur around the subject. Sometimes, there are extraneous objects or people detracting from the subject that I need to remove. Sometimes I need to boost the contrast between my subject and background. In general, if I look at the photo that I got and compare it to the photo that I "saw" when I took the shot, it is relatively clear what I want to do in post.

[chauncey]

Ken, you've taken that shot, hopefully in RAW format, and now it's just sitting there, waiting for you to do your magic. Realize first that there is no right or wrong way, Adams never made a print the same way twice. You may PP that image differently based on your emotions at that time.

Some folks look at that image and just seem to know what direction to take and their PP goes to fruition without a hitch...not me! I usually have no clue what to do, I think and ponder and tinker and play around for hours oftentimes. There is rarely that eureka moment, more of an evolvement toward satisfaction.

All of that blarney presupposes that you have done an adequate job before squeezing the shutter, composition/exposure and all that rot. If not, fix that first.
Also, make an effort to take a picture of an attractive subject...making ugly beautiful is an exercise in futility.

Be aware that developing an eye for what works and what doesn't is a learned skill developed over time.
Peruse the artistic sites to give yourself a direction in which to take your work.

[FrankMi]

Hi Ken, although there are a lot of very valid points presented in this thread to help answer your question, most tutorials present a 'how to' that may or may not apply to the image at hand.

One of the benefits of a photography forum is that you can present an image and request assistance on a specific aspect that you want to improve. In doing so, you learn how to address that issue and once you are comfortable that you have a handle on that technique, you can move on with addressing the next aspect of what you want to learn.

Perhaps this can help get you started in the direction that is right for your learning goals.

[Disles1]

Thank you everyone for the very thoughtful and helpful suggestions. I'm sorry it has taken awhile to respond but I needed to purchase a new computer and now it's up and running.

I shall look for a book or two that has been recommended and then practice with Lightroom. Then, if I may, I'll ask for your comments on a photo I've worked on.

Ken
PS The comments regarding finding a way to present a photo artistically really put a spotlight on an important issue. I'm more inclined to be analytical rather than artistic so that will be something I have to concentrate on.

[Abitconfused]

I crop and straighten the image if needed. I adjust white balance in RAW or DxO using the eye dropper on a middle gray. Fix lens characteristics and Chromatic Aberrations in RAW or DxO 9, adjust black point and white point using RAW or DxO using a Curves tool or Levels Adjustment Layer. I may adjust color to remove color casts...Curves works well here. Saturation, brightness as needed but saturation is the big one. Saturate sparingly. Select part of an image or specific color perhaps. Contrast is done while using Curves. The classic Curves "S" curve works well here. Unsharp Mask at: Amount: 100, 0.4 to 1.5, Threshold: 1 to begin. Experiment a lot. Resize and resharpen if needed. Larger files need more sharpening amount than small. Nothing builds POP like corrected black and white points, contrast, saturation and proper sharpening. Good luck!

[Disles1]

Hello all, I thought I would share a resource that I was directed to by Victoria Bampton (the Lightroom Queen, and of the book Lightroom 5 FAQ). She suggested I have a look at George Jardine's video series "The Image Correction Master Class" and I thank her because Jardine covers many of the issues I was struggling with.

[davidedric]

Hello all, I thought I would share a resource that I was directed to by Victoria Bampton (the Lightroom Queen, and of the book Lightroom 5 FAQ). She suggested I have a look at George Jardine's video series "The Image Correction Master Class" and I thank her because Jardine covers many of the issues I was struggling with.

Thanks for this link, Ken. I found Mr. Jardine's series on Library and Develop very helpful, his style just suits me, but I didn't know about this set. I think I'm likely to be investing a few dollars.

Dave

[Richard Lundberg]

Exposure, white balance, saturation, fill light or clarity or shadows, vibrance, focus or sharpening or both. Crop.

[davidedric]

Thanks for this link, Ken. I found Mr. Jardine's series on Library and Develop very helpful, his style just suits me, but I didn't know about this set. I think I'm likely to be investing a few dollars.

Got the set, and for me they are excellent. I'm finally beginning to understand just how the different Lightroom sliders affect the tone curve in different ways, and I'm only up to video 4 out of 21!

Dave