Question about Photoshop Elements

[Mike Buckley]

I'm using an old version 6 of Photoshop Elements because I use it only for a couple of its capabilities that are so basic that they were available in the very first version. Even so, I think you folks using newer versions will be able to help me out.

My task is to move one image to another image of the exact same size and aspect ratio and to then erase parts of the top layer. Is there a method of ensuring the two images are exactly aligned other than using trial and error until I've confirmed that, indeed, they are aligned? I looked in the Help screens and found nothing.

[Shadowman]

I'm using an old version 6 of Photoshop Elements because I use it only for a couple of its capabilities that are so basic that they were available in the very first version. Even so, I think you folks using newer versions will be able to help me out.

My task is to move one image to another image of the exact same size and aspect ratio and to then erase parts of the top layer. Is there a method of ensuring the two images are exactly aligned other than using trial and error until I've confirmed that, indeed, they are aligned? I looked in the Help screens and found nothing.

Have you tried the photomerge tool? It has an alignment feature under advanced.

[Stagecoach]

Mike, there is a very easy way of doing it in Ver 7 that I use and have done this before but have just tried and can not remember it. I'm sure it was in one of the books I have so will have a look.

Grahame

[Mike Buckley]

John: Using the Photomerge Panorama tool does the trick using either the Auto mode or the Interactive mode in its default settings (perhaps other modes too). Thank you! For those following along, using the Photomerge tool and then clicking "Undo" to remove the automatic merging leaves the layers in a state that I can do my own merging.

Remember that I'm referring to version 6. The details of using other versions may vary.

Grahame: If you find another way to do this, please let us know.

[dje]

Mike try this :

Open up the two images in PSE. Select the one you want on top, hit Ctrl A to select the whole image, Ctrl C to copy it.

Then select the other image tab and hit Ctrl V. This should place the first image as a layer on top of the second image.

Dave

[Mike Buckley]

Thanks for thinking of that method, Dave. However, for some reason that I can't imagine, the two layers are not perfectly aligned. I tried your method three times in a row and never got them aligned. I tried John's Photomerge method three times in a row and they were perfectly aligned every time.

[Polar01]

This may work, open one of the images, then go to File>place find the other image Ok and it should place the second image over the first one. Worth a try I use to do that when I used PSE however It was newer than V6.

Cheers: Allan

[dje]

Thanks for thinking of that method, Dave. However, for some reason that I can't imagine, the two layers are not perfectly aligned. I tried your method three times in a row and never got them aligned. I tried John's Photomerge method three times in a row and they were perfectly aligned every time.

That's quite strange Mike. I tried it with two identical images (one a copy of the other) and got perfect alignment. It was with CS6 rather than PSE but I find it hard to imagine that they would differ in this regard.

Dave

[jcuknz]

One of the things I accept as 'fact' is that if you "duplicate an image as a new layer" it is identical but I wonder if Mike is trying to merge dissimilar images? It has the same pixel count and layout as the original so must be the same ???? or have I missed the point of the question
I do it with Paint .Net and PSP so I'd be suprised if PSE 6 didn't work the save way.

[Mike Buckley]

I wonder if Mike is trying to merge dissimilar images?

Great question! The short answer is that I am not using dissimilar images insofar as their alignment is concerned.

The two images are identical in composition. The only difference is the lighting and exposure. When I place one image in a layer above the other image, removing the pixels from the top layer will reveal whether the two layers are exactly aligned. They are aligned when using the Photomerge tool. They are aligned when using the Move tool and when accurately fine tuning the alignment by trial and error. They are not aligned when using the copy-and-paste method.

Again, that's the situation in Photoshop Elements version 6. I don't know about other versions.

[Marie Hass]

Did you try reducing the opacity of the top layer? You can always set it back up to 100% when you need to.

marie

[Mike Buckley]

Marie,

I generally select an area in the top layer using the Magnetic Lasso tool and delete all pixels within the selection. Reducing the opacity of the layer would be of no help.

EDIT: I now understand how reducing the opacity of the top layer would help one determine whether it is properly aligned with the bottom layer. Even so, after doing that one would have to manually make the correction, which would require more time than using the automated method explained later in the thread and the results might not be consistently accurate alignment as in the case of the automated method.

[Stagecoach]

This may work, open one of the images, then go to File>place find the other image Ok and it should place the second image over the first one. Worth a try I use to do that when I used PSE however It was newer than V6.

Cheers: Allan

Mike,

This method works for me in PSE ver 7, is it what you are after?

But I'm still certain there is a way that with the two images open at the same time you can drag one onto the other and make it go to the same size and it will show up as another layer. I only have two books on PSE 6/7 and those would have been the only places I could have found out how, still looking. But Alan's method gets the same result.

Grahame

[Ken MT]

Mike, in PSE9 you can use File >New >photomerge exposure to merge from 2 up to 10 images with differing exposures, of identical composition. Works a treat

[Stagecoach]

Mike,

I have found the method I was referring to which is from the PSE '6' book by Scott Kelby & Matt Kloskowski. It was within a section that details the method of merging manually two differently exposed same images (sky and land) where masks/erasing were used.

a) Open both images in the editing page.
b) Open each image in a 'separate' window side by side. (this is the secret)
c) Select the 'Move' tool (Ctrl V)
d) Press and hold the 'Shift' key.
e) Drag and drop one image into the other.

This perfectly aligns the images and is known as 'pin-registered' and you have both images contained within one document.

You will then have the two images as separate layers and can then minimise or close the image that you placed into the other.

Grahame

[Mike Buckley]

Press and hold the 'Shift' key.

That's exactly what I was looking for! Holding that key while using the Move tool is even quicker than using the Photomerge tool. That's because when using Photomerge you have to wait while the software does the merging. (My wife will tell you that I'm not good at waiting.) Then you have to Undo the merge and reposition the layers according to your needs if the automatic positioning doesn't meet them.

Thank you so much, Grahame, for taking the time to look that detail up. It didn't make any sense to me that you could move an image from one window to another and not be able to automatically align the two resulting layers. The index to the software's Help screens does not include any mention of the Move tool, despite that it has an entry under "tools" indicating that you should look up all tools. Better yet, conducting a search of "move tool" or "move," returns absolutely nothing pertaining to the Move tool.

Ken: Version 6 doesn't have the exact Photomerge detail you discussed but, as mentioned earlier in the thread, you're correct that the Photomerge tool does accomplish perfect alignment in the process of automatically merging the image.

Thank you to everyone who offered help!

[loosecanon]

When PSE is so cheap to buy - Amazon offers £33 - why stay with an old version when the latest has so many useful extras?

[Mike Buckley]

When PSE is so cheap to buy - Amazon offers £33 - why stay with an old version when the latest has so many useful extras?

Good question. My answers:

• Coonsidering that I already have the capabilities of Capture NX2 (my primary software), the latest version of Lightroom, and the old version of Elements, I have no reason to think any of the newer capabilities available in the latest verison of Elements would ever be needed. As an example, the capabilities that I use in Elements Version 6 were in the application's very first version. I licensed Version 6 only because I made a change in my computer's operating software and Version 1 would not run on it.
• I hate learning new software.
• Learning the capabilities and how to use them in the current version of Elements would require time that would be better spent in other ways.
• Did I mention that I hate learning new software?

[Shadowman]

Whenever I view most available software tutorials its always basedo the latest version, the new verison usually contains some new feature that you'd like to have but don't really see the cost benefit of obtaining.

[jcuknz]

Great question! The short answer is that I am not using dissimilar images insofar as their alignment is concerned.

The two images are identical in composition. The only difference is the lighting and exposure. When I place one image in a layer above the other image, removing the pixels from the top layer will reveal whether the two layers are exactly aligned. They are aligned when using the Photomerge tool. They are aligned when using the Move tool and when accurately fine tuning the alignment by trial and error. They are not aligned when using the copy-and-paste method.

Again, that's the situation in Photoshop Elements version 6. I don't know about other versions.

I cannot remember when or if I used copy and paste in the way you are but I did strike early on a problem that the computer is completely literal so if the images are not the same screen size at the copy stage they remain different .... it is something to do with the size of the image on the monitor screen I think but wouldn't swear to that ... just my suspicions

I know when I open a camera file as I assume you must be doing my programme doesn't always open at the same % of the original for some reason.

I have a memory of Larry Bolch on the Nikon5000 website repeatedly going on about with PS he would move the top image one pixel distance at a time by clicking the direction arrows but I didn't find this in PSP so never really got the hang of what he was about.[ for registering layers ]

I note Marie Hass's tip with regard to reducing the density as an aid to registering and have been doing that for years with my hand held panoramas.