Question: Vello & Zeikos battery grips

[Mike Buckley]

I threw away a Chinese knock-off of a Nikon battery grip more than a year ago after it damaged by D7000 camera resulting in a hefty repair bill. I learned later that the Chinese knock-offs probably are not licensed by Nikon and that they are probably reverse engineered to achieve compatibility with the camera body. I just now saw battery grips made by Vello and Zeikos at B&H's web site and wonder if they are legitimately licensed by Nikon to produce their less expensive grips. I also wonder if there is no more chance of damaging the camera body than using a Nikon grip.

Your thoughts?

[rpcrowe]

Mike, B&H is a very upstanding company. I wonder if you could ask them if the grips are licensed by Nikon. Another possibility would be to ask Nikon USA that same question.

I haven't used a battery grip since I shot with a Canon XT many years ago. I used one on that camera simply because the darn body was too small to be comfortable in my hands.

Zeikos contacts:

Zeikos International Headquarters
86 Northfield Ave
Edison, NJ, 08837
E-mail us at info@Zeikos.com

Phone/Fax:
Toll Free: 800-500-4434
Phone: 212-252-1285
Fax: 212-658-9401

Sales Questions
Please e-mail our sales team at
sales@Zeikos.com

Technical Support
For technical support or if you are experiencing difficulties with a product, please contact our technical support team at support@Zeikos.com

There is a query box at:
http://zeikos.com/copy/catalog/conta...a86c370a43f5a6

[Mike Buckley]

Thanks, Richard. If I don't get a definitive answer here, I would be more interested in contacting Nikon than either of the two companies in question. That's because I would expect those two companies to tell me that they are licensees whether or not that is true. So, their responses would be inconclusive in my mind.

Even so, I have no immediate need to know about this and have only future needs in mind. So, I doubt that I would take the time to contact Nikon until doing so becomes necessary.

[Manfred M]

Vello ssems to have a business relationship with Nikon; they seem to make the remote timer for Nikon.


http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Pro...mote-Cord.html

http://www.vellogear.com/detail?sku=840099

The only difference I see is the Nikon branding (and the price). I own the Vello Shutterboss,

[DanK]

Mike,

Please post what you find out. Even if Vello and Nikon timers are made by the same factory, I would be amazed if Nikon 'licenses' the Vello products or offers any assurances about their performance. It would make no sense at all for a manufacturer to back a direct competitor. Sill, stranger things have happened.

I trust B&H and use their batteries in both of my cameras, but I think the bottom line is nonetheless that it is caveat emptor if you choose to use aftermarket electronics with your camera.

Dan

[Mike Buckley]

It would make no sense at all for a manufacturer to back a direct competitor.

It makes sense to me. First, the license provides Nikon an additional income stream. Second, Nikon knows manufacturers are going to market less expensive competing products whether legally or not, so they might as well make money on some of them. Third, if they license the product, they can ensure that the product will work properly and not damage the camera body, thus ensuring that their customer base remains happy.

As an example, we know Nikon authorizes certain shops to repair Nikon equipment. All of those shops are competing with Nikon but Nikon has other reasons including a stream of income that make sense for authorizing those shops.

[Andrew76]

As an example, we know Nikon authorizes certain shops to repair Nikon equipment. All of those shops are competing with Nikon but Nikon has other reasons including a stream of income that make sense for authorizing those shops.

Service, and selling physical products are very, very different. Nikon looks 'good' by having many, many service centres, as you can have your official Nikon product serviced 'anywhere in the world'.

Selling 3rd party gear under a license doesn't make sense to me. Why sell something for less, when they have a product available that does the job, for full price? And, with their branding on it.

But I have been wrong before! I'm as interested as Dan is to see what you find out.

[Mike Buckley]

This discussion is interesting. When Tokina makes a lens for use with a Nikon camera body, doesn't Tokina pay Nikon a fee for doing so? If so, that's an example of selling a competing product at a lower price. If not, I've misunderstood all along and my wife will be more than happy to tell you that this is not the first time that has happened.

[Manfred M]

This discussion is interesting. When Tokina makes a lens for use with a Nikon camera body, doesn't Tokina pay Nikon a fee for doing so? If so, that's an example of selling a competing product at a lower price. If not, I've misunderstood all along and my wife will be more than happy to tell you that this is not the first time that has happened.

Not necessarily; Tokina (and others) could have just as easily reverse-engineered the Nikon mount and the electronic lens / camera connections. Just like the cheap Chinese knock offs. but likely they do a better job at it.

[DanK]

When Tokina makes a lens for use with a Nikon camera body, doesn't Tokina pay Nikon a fee for doing so?

Probably not, unless they are using patented technology, but more to the point, Nikon and Canon don't warrant the behavior of their cameras with other companies' lenses. That was your original concern--that plugging another company's products into your camera might damage it.

[Mike Buckley]

more to the point, Nikon and Canon don't warrant the behavior of their cameras with other companies' lenses. That was your original concern--that plugging another company's products into your camera might damage it.

I was concerned about the likelihood of another company's product doing damage being greater than that of a Nikon product. However, I was never concerned about Nikon warranting the behavior of a competing product or even Nikon's product being warranted relative to damage caused by a competing product because I know such an expectation would be unreasonable.

[GrahamS]

I have it on good authority that Nikon do not "licence" any 3rd party manufacturer to make anything with a "Nikon" branding or to be compatible with Nikon products. Nikon do not share any technical information at all, not even with 3rd party lens manufacturers such as Sigma or Tokina. They keep their cards very close to their chest.

[Manfred M]

I have it on good authority that Nikon do not "licence" any 3rd party manufacturer to make anything with a "Nikon" branding or to be compatible with Nikon products. Nikon do not share any technical information at all, not even with 3rd party lens manufacturers such as Sigma or Tokina. They keep their cards very close to their chest.

In that case Graham, please explain the astounding similarity between the two products that I provide links for in #4...

I strongly suspect that Nikon branded filters are probably done this way as well. Virtually every manufacturer in the world subcontracts some of their work; either as subcomponents or sometimes full products.

[DanK]

In that case Graham, please explain the astounding similarity between the two products that I provide links for in #4...

I strongly suspect that Nikon branded filters are probably done this way as well. Virtually every manufacturer in the world subcontracts some of their work; either as subcomponents or sometimes full products.

Several possibilities. It may be the same manufacturer and the same equipment, with a different label. It may be the same manufacturer and exterior, with different innards. It may be a copy by a different manufacturer. The last is hardly a rare occurrence. eBay is loaded with photographic stuff made to look as if it is really from the manufacturer, such as lens caps and tripod rings, sometimes with a word or two of the label changed. I don't know how one would find out. Even if the first is correct, I can't imagine that Nikon will write back and say, 'oh yes, that is really ours under a different name, so you might as well buy it for less from them.' And if the second is correct, it is hard to imagine that the manufacturer will cheerfully tell you what you give up by buying theirs.

[Mike Buckley]

Considering all the accessories that Nikon sells, I really do find it difficult to believe that they don't pay other companies to make at least some of them in accordance with Nikon specifications. Examples: neck straps, plastic covers for LCDs, lens caps, fog-eliminating cloths, liquid lens cleaner, lens pen, etc.

[NorthernFocus]

Mike, what was the damage to the D7000? Did they specify when they repaired it?

I have a knockoff grip for the D800 and it works fine. I later bought a Nikon grip (second hand) as well so I could use the D4 battery in it.

[DanK]

Considering all the accessories that Nikon sells, I really do find it difficult to believe that they don't pay other companies to make at least some of them in accordance with Nikon specifications. Examples: neck straps, plastic covers for LCDs, lens caps, fog-eliminating cloths, liquid lens cleaner, lens pen, etc.

Of course they must. Almost all manufacturers of complex things do that. I doubt Toyota manufactures its own steel or microprocesso5rs. That's not the issue. The issue is whether they control the things produced by others that don't bear the Nikon brand.

You can ask them about the battery grips. I would be interested in their reply.

[Manfred M]

Of course they must. Almost all manufacturers of complex things do that. I doubt Toyota manufactures its own steel or microprocesso5rs. That's not the issue. The issue is whether they control the things produced by others that don't bear the Nikon brand.

You can ask them about the battery grips. I would be interested in their reply.

Dan as someone who has worked for many years in production and manufacturing, I can guarantee that companies do exactly that. Companies I worked for made finished products that were put on the street, with the only change being the other company's logo. In other instances we made items to the other company's specs and it looked physically different from out own products. We also did the same for a line of products we sold, but were rebadged with our company logo.

Even car companies have done this; the same vehicle with minor changes for different cars made on the same assembly line. The Volkswagen Routan is made on the same assembly line as the Chrysler minvans.

[Glenn NK]

Of course they must. Almost all manufacturers of complex things do that. I doubt Toyota manufactures its own steel or microprocesso5rs. That's not the issue. The issue is whether they control the things produced by others that don't bear the Nikon brand.

Dan:

I suspect that Nikon/Canon (put any brand in here) doesn't have any control over knock-offs. Isn't that why they are called knock-offs?

I've read that one can buy a Rolex watch for much less than what they cost at a licensed Rolex dealership.

And I'll bet most people can't tell the difference.

I doubt that neither Canon nor Nikon sell their lens designs to third parties - but I also suspect that the competing third party designs have been reverse engineered, sometimes even with some internal changes in addition to the exterior cosmetics in order to avoid infringing on the original designs.

Glenn

[Manfred M]

Dan:

I suspect that Nikon/Canon (put any brand in here) doesn't have any control over knock-offs. Isn't that why they are called knock-offs?

I've read that one can buy a Rolex watch for much less than what they cost at a licensed Rolex dealership.

And I'll bet most people can't tell the difference.

I doubt that neither Canon nor Nikon sell their lens designs to third parties - but I also suspect that the competing third party designs have been reverse engineered, sometimes even with some internal changes in addition to the exterior cosmetics in order to avoid infringing on the original designs.

Glenn

When designing a product, the engineering team also designs so that the product can be manufactured on the company's existing production equipment, or if a new piece of equipment is required, production on the new piece of equipment. Canon, Nikon, Sigma, etc. do not necessarily use identical production equipment.

These are not trivial decisions. Tooling costs have to be amortized into the startup costs of the part; so if I am planning to make hundreds of thousands of items (let's say a kit lens) versus a high end, limited market product (say a 600mm fixed lens), I might decide to use a more expensive manufacturing process, because of tooling costs.

This is something the third party lens makers will certainly pay attention to; more so than pure intellectual property issues.