Macro lens and Ext Tubes, Selfie and bees

[ClaudioG]

Hi all..went out this morning with my new tubes on my macro lens . Thanks Graham for all advice.

Now..i've stumbled into more problems, the closer im getting, the more my image picks up the colour of the flower and sort of gives it that tint...HELP!!! How do i get past this?

My first image is selfie shot on tripod, the bees are all hand held. Set camera to spot metering, Flash set TTL (I find with spot metering and flash set to TTL my camera and flash get it right almost to perfection each time!!!

I messed around between F9 and F16.. i dont usually go that high..but with tubes on..it aint easy.

Lemme know what you think of the images please... Bombard me with critique.. i really want to get to the best of my ability.
Hope u njoy
Thanks in advance

#1 this one is jus a selfie to see how close i could get in, yeh..sticking my tongue out


#2


#3


#4

[Stagecoach]

Hi Claudio,

It did not take long to get some results

Ok, here goes..................

No 1. The common problem with water drops, when you get in too close at times you can not get the edge of the drop sharp as well as the centre, they then tend to lose impact but of course this one was for the selfie.

No 2. The best of the group by far and great sharp hairy eyes ! I had a play with this one, reduced the slight clipping with 'recovery' in ACR and there is scope for a bit more tweaking and sharpening. Excellent image.

No 3 & No 4. From the histograms they are overexposed and clipped but again good and sharp.

It may be worthwhile dialling the flash down a bit although what's confusing is that if you relied upon TTL for No 2 there's a big difference between this and No 3 & 4? Could it be that 3 & 4 also had very bright sunlight?

Because of the highlight problems on bodies and wings with many of these critters I adjusted my jpeg settings so that they would show an almost identical histogram on the LCD to the RAW file one when viewed on the monitor, I like to think it assisted.

I can not see any tint problem with these but if I get one I either correct it in ACR or use the 'colour cast' removal tool in PSE assuming there's a neutral surface/area as a datum.

Look forward to seeing some more.......................

Grahame

[deetheturk]

Hi Claudio,great images,a little over exposed and over saturated maybe, but great detail!Your images are getting better all the time so keep at it bud I had a little play with #3+#4 dont know if its any better?

Cheers David

[ClaudioG]

Love em!!!!!!! TY David...i just spoke to another photo friend of mine and he's now 3rd one after you that said overexposed..yourself..Graham and another friend i have here in SA. May i ask..did u bring exposure down a tad, blacks up a little, and just a little less than what i do on vibrancy? and also tweak contrast a bit?

PS..i am going to start a new post with newer images that i think may improve the overexposure..please lemm know what you think.

[deetheturk]

Claudio,i never touched exposure,just shadows and vibrance turned down a tadHope this helps...

[Geoff F]

With these shots, Claudio, particularly #3 and #4, was this with natural light or with flash?

With natural light macro shots, and using an evaluative form of metering, I normally use a little negative exposure compensation. Somewhere around -1 is a good starting point but experimentation is always required to suit ambient light levels.

Spot metering can sometimes be useful but on occasions with mixed colours on your subject plus a strong background colour (ie a flower) it can be totally unreliable.

When shooting with flash, and ettl metering, I use manual camera settings, to suit the scene (typically 1/200 F14 Iso 200) then vary the flash output compensation as required. Typically -2/3 to -2).

Doing a Custom White Balance before shooting will help to control false colours. If shooting Raw it is easy to change the WB during conversion but getting it correct at the time of shooting creates a stable reference point. Instead of, particularly with flowers, looking at the resulting colours and trying to remember what were the 'real life colours'.

Your focus is good.

ps. I would probably 'darken' those images even slightly more than David's versions.

[Stagecoach]

Hi Claudio,

I received the original RAW files ok and have had a good close look this morning.

Firstly, here's my take on the first one that to be honest I did nothing really different than my standard workflow.
Exposure reduced by -0.2 (slight clipping), Clarity +25 in ACR. In PSE darken highlights by 10% to improve detail in yellow hairy flowers, LCE Rad 40 amount 10, creative sharpen Rad 4 amount 40%. I then reduced the Red channel lightness by -20 to help reduce the red cast. Downsized and sharpened 0.3 100%.



Secondly, looking at the other two images they certainly are suffering from an unusual red tinting far more than the first that I did not pick up on yesterday. I have attempted all my known methods to improve this but with no success. My immediate thoughts were that this was caused by the overexposure but in my opinion the exposure was not that far out. If the light source had of been too powerful I would have expected to see massive blow out in the eyes, which we don't.

The histograms are pretty flat showing a low contrast image, how have you got your flash set up with respect to angle and diffusion?

Here's a version of one of them to clearly show the problem and hopefully someone can shed some light on this as I have not come across it before but do not recall having taken images of bees or wasps in flowers with red.



Grahame

[Geoff F]

Yellow can be a tricky colour. I often find that yellow flowers are rather highly saturated on the red channel.

[Stagecoach]

Geoff,

I have had problems with over saturation of red flowers and from what I have read different cameras deal with this in different ways. What intrigues me with this image is the red cast on areas such as the bees head hairs and wings, is it all reflection from the central red area of the flower and if so what is the best method to reduce or eliminate with the lighting?

Grahame

[Geoff F]

Reflected light can certainly be a problem sometimes. Look at the red tinge on the clear wings. I wonder if there were large areas of red flowers nearby?

Doing a custom white balance before shooting certainly helps with getting correct colour. But sometimes you have to shoot quickly before doing this; and if you are moving around into different lighting situations it can become something of a chore!

Anyhow, I will download one of the questionable tint photos and have a closer look.

[Geoff F]

When I zoom in on the slight over exposure area of the wings, and consider that to be white, the original colour balance seems to be correct.

This is what I came up with in the way of an edit. Which was really just a bit of exposure change.



As the WB is correct, that redness must be reflected light. I could tone it down by using an Adjustment Layer on the red channel then edit a mask so the effect only applied to the required areas.

But I have left this image without doing that.

ps. By looking at the wing veins, this looks like a Honey Bee to me.

[ClaudioG]

Hi Geoff and Graham. Thanks guys for your help. I'm pretty sure that the tinge has got to do with the colour of flower reflecting on the bee's hair hey. If you look, the one in red flower are slightly more red, and the extreme close up one is slightly more yellow. Maybe one problem is that I'm still USing my old diffuser which only reached the end of the lens. Now with tubes on it doesn't get that far. I will also shoot with flash set to manual from now on as well. Thank you all for your help again.

[ClaudioG]

Btw..i also have a butterfly in a previous thread that also has the same kind of issue..the bright pink flower is reflected on its hairs on its back legs.

Graham, my flash is on camera, and have a pretty big diffuser which worked great when it reached te end of the lens, just seems to be hit and miss now with it been a bit short when ext tubes are on.

[deetheturk]

Claudio,i'm sure you have thought of this yourself,after saying now with ext tubes your diffuser is too short,why not make an extension to the flash end of your diffuser and see if that makes any difference?

[Stagecoach]

Hi Claudio,

Some more general thoughts.

For flash use an article I have just read (Lord V macro) suggests using a shutter speed of 1/200 which makes sense when hand holding. The flash duration is typically 1/1000th and faster which gives the effective shutter speed but if you are hand holding at 1/60th your image is at risk of also receiving extra ambient light and movement during the additional time the shutter is open that it does not need to be. I think I have this right

As for the flash may be an idea to get a bracket so you can place it to the side which would help with giving a less flat image. For the diffuser I use (the 50c cardboard one) I made an extension so I could get to the end of the lens with the tubes on as I found I was losing light right where I wanted it but the TTL would try and compensate.

Grahame

[ClaudioG]

Hi David, yeah i actually have just bought the equip i need to extend diffuser . So will give that a go. Graham, i think you may be right. Maybe at 1/60th it's sstill not quick enuff to stop to much ambient light in. Hmmm will try shooting at faster shutter speed and see what effect that has. Ty

[Geoff F]

Claudio, as an experiment try what I do with macro flash shots. Throw the diffuser away. I tried using various versions for a couple of hours and couldn't get any benefit.

If you are shooting with manual camera settings and with correct flash output compensation you shouldn't need a diffuser. They were essential with the old fixed output flashes but with modern 'thinking flashes' which have variable output I cannot see any advantage for a diffuser; providing you set the flash output correctly.

There are various options to change the angle of flash; for example to a more overhead angle but for most of my insect shots I am shooting through 'holes in the undergrowth' etc and want the light to be in line with the camera.

[ClaudioG]

Hi Geoff..may i ask..are you hand holding the flash or is it on camera flash you talking about??

[Geoff F]

Flash mounted directly on the camera which enables me to get those awkward quick shots with the minimum of bother when shooting alone.

Some people use an assistant to vary the camera angle which can be even better providing all that action doesn't scare the subject!

Others, carefully set up their equipment to concentrate on a 'favourite flower' then wait for some 'guests'. This gives maximum potential; providing your models are in a cooperative mood.

But I tend to wander around searching hopefully for a rare species. Which means having my tripod and flash etc always ready for that elusive quick shot of a species which makes the entomologist experts go 'wow'!

I usually seem to manage two or three of them in a good year.

ps. For these quick shots, I find that some form of tripod quick grip ball head is essential.