Computer for Photo Editing

[Adrian]

Yes, makes sense. You have to remember this photo stuff is just a side line for me. The main use of my computers is mathematical modelling and we use up a lot of processing power for that on the main modelling machines and even the low spec back up machines (which is what I regard my iMac as). I find that Lightroom 4, even running alone or with just a web browser, can use up well over 8Gb of RAM if I run the stats on it. However, I have no patience, so I get edgy if computers render slowly!

I am interested in your SSD prices. The cheapest I have seen 1 Tb SSD in the UK is about £400 (this is for plug in not stand alone Crucial memory, and not top spec at that). I agree that low capacity

SSD is getting cheaper, but really anything less than 256Gb is not worth bothering with, and 500Gb is much better.

Susan - the on-line builders are fine. Basically you just choose a spec from a menu. All this stuff is plug and play, and though compatability used to be a big issue it is much less so now. The reputable on-line builders offer good deals and guarantees. You will get much better spec or significantly lower price when compared with Dell. Put money into memory (back up is good!) and screen.

Adrian

[Green Mountain Girl]

I got in touch with the computer guy in town, and he has given me some estimates which I would like to describe.

All have some features in common, of course - a tower case (steel ATX) with 350W Power Supply; Motherboard (MSI brand with USB 3.0 High Performance CF Intel); i7-4770 Haswell 3.5GHz w/intel HD Graphics; 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s HDD; DVD Burner SATA (choices: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE, Lite-On, or LG); All-in-one USB 2.0 card reader w/USB port; Microsoft Windows 8 Home Premium 64 bit.

He offered system choices including, with or without SSD, sizes 32GB or 64GB; with or without a video card (GeForce GT 1GN 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0x16), and with or without Wireless Networking (802.11n) because I use a wireless printer and have a router.

The lowest price (no SSD, processor 3.4GHz, 16GB Memory, and wireless networking) is $951.
The highest price (with 64GB SSD, processor 3.5GHz, 8GB Memory) is $1063.

For some reason, his quotes which had 16GB Memory were the ones without the SSD, and the ones with SSD had 8GB memory. Probably won't cost much more for 16GB (2x8).

Sounds like he has been doing this for a while, and uses components he feels are good quality.

Let me know what you think - Here are prices for the Dells to compare: The Dell system with 16GB Memory and no SDD is $1150. The Dell system with 16GB Memory and a 32GB SDD is $1550 (after that the SDDs jump to 256GB and the price goes up as well). Biggest question, probably is whether to go with the SSD, and whether 32GB or 64GB would be better.

I can go see this guy tomorrow when I am in town, but don't want to get talked into anything! Advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Susan

[Manfred M]

Susan - talk to the guy; the prices sound reasonable for what you are getting, which is well above a bare-bones system. He can configure any way that you want and can probably offer you some pretty good advice, based on your system needs. His prices are likely just there as a reference point and he should be able to build to your requirements.

Dell is charging you $500 for a smaller HDD whereas he is charging you $100 installed (I can pick up a Crucial 64GB for $85, but would have to install it myself).

[Polar01]

I am a little confused, as to 32GB and 65GB SSD's, I installed a 120GB SSD loaded windows 7, Photoshop CS6, Windows Office as such and that came to almost 70GB of space on the 120GB drive and you are talking 1/4 to 1/3 the size SSD. That to me does not make sense, now I could see a 240-256GB SSD and then use say a 32GB or 64GB as a scratch disk but as a main drive?
Please explain as I am having a hard time getting my head around that.

Cheers:

Allan

[Cantab]

Susan, I see that the system you're thinking about has a 350 watt power supply. When recently upgrading my computer I ran into potential issues around the size of power supply my new video card would want. I put in a new power supply to be on the safe side.

Manfred and others more knowledgable than me may have good views on the power supply but if there's serious doubt about using a 350W supply, it makes sense to get a heftier supply now rather than down the road.

[Manfred M]

Manfred and others more knowledgable than me may have good views on the power supply but if there's serious doubt about using a 350W supply, it makes sense to get a heftier supply now rather than down the road.

Gaming video cards are real power hogs; but if you are going with a regularly configured PC, 350W does not sound too bad. Not sure what the power rating on the Haswell chips is.

SSD argument - the only thing I use mine for is for the operating system (24GB SSD); that's where you get the biggest speed gains. Running all of your software on it is a personal choice, but it is an expensive solution. If you at going at 8GB to 16GB RAM, you won't be using a swap drive at all unless something really strange is happening.

[Adrian]

Agree with Manfred re power supply. 350w strikes me as fine as you are not gaming. Gamers will use dual graphics cards and they need a hefty (and cooled)power supply. Case cooling becomes an issue generally.

These days, to spec without SSD seems false economy.

I would be tempted to put a second (cheap) storage drive in the case and use it for back up.

[Green Mountain Girl]

I am a little confused, as to 32GB and 65GB SSD's, I installed a 120GB SSD loaded windows 7, Photoshop CS6, Windows Office as such and that came to almost 70GB of space on the 120GB drive and you are talking 1/4 to 1/3 the size SSD. That to me does not make sense, now I could see a 240-256GB SSD and then use say a 32GB or 64GB as a scratch disk but as a main drive?
Please explain as I am having a hard time getting my head around that.

Cheers:

Allan

Hi Allan!

The reason I have put this on the thread is that I really don't know what is the best thing to get. I can ask him about a larger SSD, it shouldn't cost too much more based on his prices thus far. Remember, I am not overly computer-literate, although I am learning!

Susan

[Green Mountain Girl]

Dell is charging you $500 for a smaller HDD whereas he is charging you $100 installed (I can pick up a Crucial 64GB for $85, but would have to install it myself).

Hi Manfred!

Based on my comparisons, the more basic system is almost the same as the Dell price. However, the more "bells and whistles" I add, the bigger the price difference. Allen suggested that 32GB and 64GB might not be large enough. Probably a 128GB SDD would be adequate and give "future insurance" as well. I am not against spending a bit more, just want to get the best system for my needs at a decent price.

Any other specific suggestions regarding the components I listed would be appreciated. I will be going into town today and stopping by the computer shop. Need to be prepared, because will probably want to order then if I am suitably impressed! On the telephone the guy sounds knowledgeable, and a good salesman, plus he has sent detailed, organized quotes by email. The idea of not being tied into proprietary components is very attractive to me, plus someone within 10 miles of home who can help. Dealing with Dell has been OK in the past, but at the same time often frustrating.

Will still buy the monitor from Dell if he cannot offer something comparable to the Dell 2713HM 27".

Thanks.

Susan

[Green Mountain Girl]

Gaming video cards are real power hogs; but if you are going with a regularly configured PC, 350W does not sound too bad. Not sure what the power rating on the Haswell chips is.

I looked up the Haswell chip on Newegg.com. They are pretty much the same as the other variations. Max Turbo Freq is 3.9GHz. Is that what you mean by power rating?

As for the power source, I have read that there are different levels - gold, etc. But I don't know the power ratings that qualify for the different levels. Since I am not gaming, perhaps a lesser one would be adequate, but some explanation would be appreciated.

SSD argument - the only thing I use mine for is for the operating system (24GB SSD); that's where you get the biggest speed gains. Running all of your software on it is a personal choice, but it is an expensive solution. If you at going at 8GB to 16GB RAM, you won't be using a swap drive at all unless something really strange is happening.

Perhaps the computer guy is thinking that I should configure my computer in a similar fashion. Since this is something I don't truly understand, this is why I have been asking questions. After all, if I didn't have an SSD at all, the 2TB HDD would have to do it all!

I don't even know what a "swap drive" is - have heard of scratch disks, but not sure how to work with them.

Thanks for all your help.

Susan

[Green Mountain Girl]

Agree with Manfred re power supply. 350w strikes me as fine as you are not gaming. Gamers will use dual graphics cards and they need a hefty (and cooled)power supply. Case cooling becomes an issue generally.

Hi Adrian!

I suspect you are the same Adrian I have conversed with on dpr! Thanks for your help here and on other issues.

I will ask the computer guy about the cooling level of the 350W power supply. He will probably tell me just what you said - if I am not gaming, it should be fine for photo editing.

These days, to spec without SSD seems false economy.

I agree. Just the aspect of making the OS work faster is enough. Just have to figure out how big an SSD is sensible. As I have said elsewhere, if I didn't have one at all, the 2TB HDD would have to do everything! So how big depends on how much will be put on it - just the OS, or other applications as well.

I would be tempted to put a second (cheap) storage drive in the case and use it for back up.

I already have a 2TB WD Passport, so that ought to qualify. Right now I am backing up on a smaller Passport, but it is running out of room. Plus my photos are also backed up on the computer to the My Pictures folders. Not sure what would be the benefit of having an SDD, HDD, and another HDD in the case? I do like the portability of the Passport for when I travel.

Thanks!

Susan

[Manfred M]

I looked up the Haswell chip on Newegg.com. They are pretty much the same as the other variations. Max Turbo Freq is 3.9GHz. Is that what you mean by power rating?

No that is the clock frequency; power rating is how many watts the chip draws. Other than the video card the other power hungry component is the processor. Your mother board, hard drives, etc will all add to the power draw and that is why it is important to know when sizing the power supply.

As for the power source, I have read that there are different levels - gold, etc. But I don't know the power ratings that qualify for the different levels. Since I am not gaming, perhaps a lesser one would be adequate, but some explanation would be appreciated.

Again a question for the builder; a high quality power supply is going to deliver “cleaner” power; less noise, consistent output, etc. I’ve had problems with poor quality power supplies before, so I tend to be cautious here.

Perhaps the computer guy is thinking that I should configure my computer in a similar fashion. Since this is something I don't truly understand, this is why I have been asking questions. After all, if I didn't have an SSD at all, the 2TB HDD would have to do it all!

This is exactly what is happening in your current computer. A SSD is going to let your programs load faster, that’s all. This does make a bit of a difference for things like your operating system, but I tend to leave my commonly used programs (Photoshop, Word, etc) open all the time, so the benefit of a large SSD is a bit wasted on me.

I don't even know what a "swap drive" is - have heard of scratch disks, but not sure how to work with them.

Thanks for all your help.

Susan

A swap drive is something Windows uses when you don’t have enough memory available for running all of the programs you have open. It frees up the RAM for priority routines that are running and downloads other lower priority data to the hard drive temporarily. If you have enough RAM (and with 16GB you will have tons of RAM), this won’t need to happen.

[Green Mountain Girl]

No that is the clock frequency; power rating is how many watts the chip draws. Other than the video card the other power hungry component is the processor. Your mother board, hard drives, etc will all add to the power draw and that is why it is important to know when sizing the power supply.

I looked at Newegg.com again and found what I think might be the answer: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core. The description touts its energy efficiency, etc.

...a high quality power supply is going to deliver “cleaner” power; less noise, consistent output, etc. I’ve had problems with poor quality power supplies before, so I tend to be cautious here.

Agreed. I will be stopping by the computer shop this afternoon, might be ordering a computer! Will definitely ask him about the power supply types. I realize that not gaming makes it not so crucial, but I still want the system to be optimal.

A SSD is going to let your programs load faster, that’s all. This does make a bit of a difference for things like your operating system, but I tend to leave my commonly used programs (Photoshop, Word, etc) open all the time, so the benefit of a large SSD is a bit wasted on me.

This suggests to me that a bit larger SSD would be good in my case. I generally shut everything down at night and start up again in the morning. For part of the day I might only use the internet - email, etc., then later I will open my photo editing programs and work on either uploading photos or editing or printing or all of the above! This morning I got an email with another 2 quotes that included a 128GB SSD and a 3.0 card reader instead of 2.0 - the price of the one with the faster CPU is $1119, the other one is $1079.

As he adjusts the quotes to include different features based on my comments, he gets closer and closer to what ought to be a near-perfect setup for me. In fact, this time I think he has gotten there, except maybe the power supply.

This conversation has been a great help. Thank you.

Susan

[davidedric]

Hi Susan,

Suspect you may already have information overload!

However, I went for a 250Gb ssd and it works like this. First, I don't take a huge number of images, and of the ones I do take (RAW only) I select only a relative few as being worth significant pp. My out of camera images go straight onto the regular hdd's. I review them there and COPY the ones I'm most interested into my Lightroom database which is on the ssd. That also gives me a first level of back up.

So, currently my ssd contains my software and Lightroom data base, and is less than half full. Everything works very slickly. I also have n external hdd where I back up my Lightroom catalogue and database. Of course if I want to work on a few more of my ooc images I just copy them across and import them.

I think that by the time my current ssd is full, they will have dropped in price enough that I'll just add another, and move my Lightroom files there.

I realise of course there are many CiC members for whom that workflow wouldn't do at all (and maybe one or two reading this saying What?), but I mention it because it works for me and may for others with similar needs.

Dave

[Green Mountain Girl]

Hi Susan,

Suspect you may already have information overload!

However, I went for a 250Gb ssd and it works like this. First, I don't take a huge number of images, and of the ones I do take (RAW only) I select only a relative few as being worth significant pp. My out of camera images go straight onto the regular hdd's. I review them there and COPY the ones I'm most interested into my Lightroom database which is on the ssd. That also gives me a first level of back up.

So, currently my ssd contains my software and Lightroom data base, and is less than half full. Everything works very slickly. I also have n external hdd where I back up my Lightroom catalogue and database. Of course if I want to work on a few more of my ooc images I just copy them across and import them.

I think that by the time my current ssd is full, they will have dropped in price enough that I'll just add another, and move my Lightroom files there.

I realise of course there are many CiC members for whom that workflow wouldn't do at all (and maybe one or two reading this saying What?), but I mention it because it works for me and may for others with similar needs.

Dave

Dave, Thank you for sharing your system and workflow. Not sure that copying a photo to work on it would work for me. But there have been times when I have adopted someone else's techniques because I discovered they worked well.

I do want to make the best use of the SSD and HDD in my soon-to-be-new computer!

Susan

[Green Mountain Girl]

Hey everyone!

Finally took the plunge and ordered a custom build computer from the shop in town. Funny I never knew it was there, but I didn't look for it either... The person who runs it appears to know his stuff, and also is very business-like. I am getting everything I want/need and no extra stuff on it that I would want to get rid of. He is looking into getting me the monitor I want at a decent discount.

So thanks to all for the help. I could not have done it without the excellent advice and feed-back. Now all I have to do is wait until I get the call saying my computer is ready, then will take my laptop down and get the content of my motherboard transferred over.

If there isn't a reasonable fix for the laptop, I will want to buy something very basic just for travel.

I'll let you know how I like my new computer! Can't think I won't like it...

Susan

[Manfred M]

Great news Susan -If you have found a good local custom builder, chances are that the name brands have lost you as a customer forever. The nice thing about Tech Support - you've just met him. He doesn't walk you through a script, he just tries to help.

[Cantab]

Congratulations, Susan, on ordering your new computer. My current desktop computer was assembled by a local custom building shop several years ago and I've been very happy with it.

[davidedric]

[Adrian]

Good outcome. Well done. Adrian

And have a look at a current iPad with retina screen for travel. Surprisingly good for downloading photos. Fine for web browsing and basic email. Much more portable than a laptop.