Canon upgrade path?

[davidedric]

I currently have a 600D, and I sometimes wonder when I might want to treat myself to an upgrade (please indulge me by not quizzing me too hard as to why). The obvious path would be a 60D, but I think it's been out a couple of years.

Are there rumours out there about when their replacement might be due and what it might look like? For example would they look to squeeze more pixels into the apsc format, upgrade the firmware, or...? One thing I am definitely not interested in is video!

[Andrew76]

Hi Dave. I think you would be quite happy with a 60D. I haven't heard any rumors regarding the release of a new model in the XXD lineup, but I'm not really on top of things like that.

I'm trying to avoid asking the question you don't want me to ask, and that's 'why' you want to upgrade. That will play a pivotal role in the decision. If it's just to get something new, then maybe you should wait and see if the 70D comes out. If you're looking for an all around 'better' camera, can I suggest you may even want to look at an older model 50D, or even 40D which get rave reviews, even over the 60D.

But without knowing your motivations for upgrading, it's hard to offer advice. The 600D is a decent entry-level camera, would you consider investing the $$ you have to spend on some new glass instead?

[Manfred M]

I rather doubt that you can avoid video. This is a feature that Canon seems to building into all of its still cameras. It's a pretty well a software only implementation, so other than development costs, installing this feature is somthing that is hard to avoid. I have it in all three of our DSLRs, and other than playing with it (I bought the newest camera 6 months ago), this weekend is the first time I played with the feature.

I agree with Andrew; unless we understand your motivation to upgrade, it is hard to give specific advice and direction. As for rumours, that is a really hard call. If a camera model is a few years old, then it could be on the "replacement" path, but even that is a tough call because the timing, features and price are impossible to predict. My old camera (almost 4 years old now) did not get "replaced", as it sits squarely in the middle of the two newer offerings performance and features wise. My new body is certainly not a replacement for the discontinued model, as it does certain things better than the older model, but does some other things less well.

[inkista]

I currently have a 600D, and I sometimes wonder when I might want to treat myself to an upgrade (please indulge me by not quizzing me too hard as to why). The obvious path would be a 60D, but I think it's been out a couple of years.

Are there rumours out there about when their replacement might be due and what it might look like? For example would they look to squeeze more pixels into the apsc format, upgrade the firmware, or...? One thing I am definitely not interested in is video!

Rumors are rumors. Vaporware. Never reliable.

The only thing we can tell you is that product announcements TEND to cluster in the spring and in the fall. With the fall announcements generally in the Sept/Oct. time frame, and the spring announcements in the Feb/March timeframe to coincide with large tradeshows. And to point you to the Wikipedia table of Canon's camera releases so you can guesstimate when a new model's coming out, but there are always surprises, like the 6D, and some models hanging around in the lineup for longer than average. You should also note how releases tend to flow down-tier (i.e., starts with a 1-series, going to a 5-series, then 7-series, xx-series, with the xxx-series and xxxx-series cameras leapfrogging about with much shorter lifespans). Look at the Digic generation and resolution of the sensor, to see which cameras are related.

My guess would be that a 70D may be announced in the spring or summer of next year. But then, I was basing that on the 7DMkII (or whatever they were going to name the 7D's successor) coming out this fall. Which didn't happen, probably because the 6D arrived on the scene.

Generally speaking, a 60D will still be a good upgrade even if a 70D comes out, because what you're really paying for is the dual-wheel controls and some additional menu controls you don't have on a dRebel. But it's not a great upgrade, because the 600D shares the same processor & sensor with the 60D, so you're unlikely to see many image quality gains, there. However, purchasing a new camera, directly after it's been released is to nab it at its most expensive. The later you grab it in the release cycle (on through to used), the lower the price will be. Right now, a 60D body, new, goes for US$900. When it was initially introduced in 2010, it went for $1100. A 70D is liable to start in the $1100 neighborhood, too. So, while you might take a feature hit going with a 60D, you'll be paying less for it.

This is just me, but my personal metrics for whether I should upgrade to a new body are twofold: 1) Is the generation/tier advancement count >1? (i.e., going up one tier, or going forward one generation is not worth the cost and PITA to me, but going up one tier AND one generation could be. Although I tend to wait until it's more like 3 or 4. These are digital electronics. They're gonna break anyway.) And 2) whether or not every single other piece of camera gear I want to get costs pretty much the same. Because if there's something cheaper that I want just as much, makes more sense to me to get that first: more toys sooner, and nearly nothing else (lenses, tripod, flashes) is going to depreciate as quickly or leave you faster than a digital camera body. YMMV.

I bought a Canon XT (350D). It lasted me 4 years before the powerboard went out. It went from $800 to $0 in that time, and I moved to a $700 refurbished 50D. At the same time, I purchased a $600 fisheye lens. It's lasted me 7 years, and I still use it on my 50D and 5D2, with no end in sight. And it's worth about $600 on the used market (Sigma has priced it higher as the years have gone by). Which money was better spent? The cash on the XT that's now gone? Or the cash on the lens that's still with me?

[Geoff F]

From what I have seen of the 60D, Dave, I wouldn't change. A friend has a 60D and he is always struggling with the settings.

Now a 7D would be an upgrade. But unless you are struggling with the controls on your present camera, or want something physically bigger, I would question whether it will be that much of an improvement.

Having said that, if faced with the choice of a 600D or a 50D instead of my current 7D; I would definitely choose the 50D solely based on the easier controls.

I have yet to experiment with the video on my 7D and a lot of the time, having more pixels is meaningless because it just means slower computer speeds coping with pixels which I am only going to discard anyway.

Although this can sometimes be useful when I have to make substantial crops. For example with wildlife shots.

Lenses are certainly a good investment, providing you buy wisely.

[Carl in Louisiana]

I have the 60D and I did at first struggle with the settings, but that can apply to anything new, now after using it for some time I have very little trouble setting it up. I really enjoy using it and always have. There is a learning stage with everything and how much you put into it thats how much you'll get out of it. Good luck with your decision.

[rpcrowe]

I currently have a 600D, and I sometimes wonder when I might want to treat myself to an upgrade (please indulge me by not quizzing me too hard as to why). The obvious path would be a 60D, but I think it's been out a couple of years.

I agree with Geoff that I would select the 50D or even a 40D over the 600D. The controls of a xxD and 7D camera are far more user friendly than the xxxD controls. The dual dial system alone is worth any upgrade.

I use a 7D and I am in love with that camera. However it is priced at a higher level than the 60D and whether the extra bells and whistles are worth the extra money depends on you.

Here is an example. I shoot with both a 40D and a 7D with 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and 70-200mm f/4L IS lenses mounted. Sure, I would like to upgrade my 40D to another 7D primarily beause of the increased focus ability and because I would only have to carry one type of battery and charger when I travel. However, I don't crave a second 7D enough to trade in my 40D and spend the extra money on a new or refurbished 7D camera.

Now, choosing between the 60D and a 7D... This might depend on the prices in the U.K., your present financial status and the lenses you presently have. If choosing a 60D over the 7D would allow you to make a sufficient upgrade in your lenses, I would definitely choose the 60D.

OTOH... I would shoot with a 40D and a top line lens like the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS rather than any new 1.6x camera and a lesser lens.

[Andrew76]

I don't want to take this thread too far off track, because I think Dave deserves an answer to his original question, but I have concerns when people say 'they struggle(d) with the settings' of a particular brand/model of camera.

Firstly, it's a pretty generic statement, that's fairly meaningless - I just got a new TV last week that has the internet built right into it - I struggle with the settings of it. Does that make it a bad TV, a bad purchase, or me an idiot?

Secondly, if a statement like that is directed towards someone who's trying to make an informed decision, it could needlessly sway their opinion of a perfectly good product.

Not to mention, if someone's prepared to make a technological upgrade in their life, there's a pretty good chance that they're willing to take those chances of 'struggling with the settings', and learn the functions of the new tool. If the 60D, and/or 7D will cause Dave to struggle with the settings, what would you suggest he upgrade to? There's not much direction to go.

[davidedric]

First, a big thanks to everyone for responding and taking so much trouble.

Someone called me out why I’m thinking about changing, so I suppose I’d better answer.

Why am I looking for an upgrade – I suppose there are good and bad answers.

“Good reasons”

What I would like in a new body:

- Best dynamic range and IQ (especially at a range of ISO), of course
- Bigger, faster buffer, so that I can shoot (e.g. wildlife) on continuous without worrying about running out of space
- Fast and accurate autofocus
- Faster “live view” focus, coupled with an articulated screen, because I struggle rather to get down low
- Can continue to use lenses designed for apsc cameras
- No more weight than I need
- Weather proofing nice, but not essential

I’m not concerned about
- Video. I don’t object to it, I just won’t use it. I have (or at least my wife has) a perfectly good video camera. (Though see comment about “live view” above)

Change
- I positively like the challenge of learning new controls (sad, I know)! So I don’t struggle with controls, well, hardly J

“Bad reasons”

- I like new stuff
- It’s nearly Christmas!

I had assumed that a natural upgrade path would be one step, from an xx0D to an x0D, but after reading the posts I suppose I should really think about an xD like a 7D.


Thanks again,

Dave

P.S. I'm not going to upgrade very often, so budget isn't a huge constraint (not to be mentioned outside this forum )

[21Limited]

Being a Pentax guy, I probably have no business being here, but, what about the 6D? It's wifi capablity makes for some interesting options, like using your iPad as a huge view screen in live view.



I'm really curious about what the IQ will be, being only 20 MP on a Full Frame... if the IQ is good, I'm going to have to give it a real good look. If you're used to shooting with a k-5 you get real picky. Being a Canon, I know the AF is going to be better.

[rpcrowe]

Norman,

I don't know about the IPad but, with a Droid based tablet, there is an app which will let you shoot (and control the camera) using the tablet. It is necessary to be wired to the tablet via USB cord but, IMO, that is not such a great drawback.

Additionally, using the supplied Canon software, you can view your image on a notebook PC via a USB cable. You can additionally shoot directly to the PC....

I believe that shooting tethered to a notebook is possible with Nikons but, extra software and/or hardware is needed.

I don't know about Pentax, Olympus and Sony cameras...

By the way, Dave, you mention “Bad reasons” to buy equipment!

"- I like new stuff"
"- It’s nearly Christmas!"

If you can afford the gear and it doesn't impact your or your family's standard of living AND you realize that new gear will not automatically make you into a great photographer (or a greater photographer than you presently are); "I like new stuff" and "It's nearly Christmas" are great reasons for getting a new camera.

I rationalized my need for a new lens when my wife convinced me to take a vacation trip (which I did not particularly are about) with her sister and brother-in-law to Branson Missouri. My wife said that she wanted this to be a family trip rather than a photo excursion and asked me to take only one camera with one lens in lieu of my normal two camera and several lens setup!

What an opportunity to buy the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens! I pleaded, "Honestly, honey, I cannot function with any other single lens!" I have fallen in love with the 17-55mm and am thankful to my in laws-for that trip! Besides I had a nice time and saw an area of the USA that I was not familiar with.

[21Limited]

I rationalized my need for a new lens when my wife convinced me to take a vacation trip (which I did not particularly are about) with her sister and brother-in-law to Branson Missouri. My wife said that she wanted this to be a family trip rather than a photo excursion and asked me to take only one camera with one lens in lieu of my normal two camera and several lens setup!

Happy wife, happy life....and you got a lens out of it, how cool is that?

[Scott Stephen]

I too have a 600D and look forward to upgrading it, but I just cannot see the 60D as a meaningful upgrade in late 2012. I maybe wish I had bought 60D (or 7D) in the first place, but now, having a 600D, I think that ship has sailed!

Remember the 600D and 60D have exactly the same sensor. You will not get better ISO out of the 60D than you aleady have in your 600D. I feel strongly that poor performance at high ISO is this sensor's most glaring weakness. The 60D is really quite old now, and a replacement (70D or 7D mk2) is overdue, even if not actually imminent.

I intend to wait until I can see what the next top end crop camera (7D2 or 70D) looks like if it does not take too long, and/or to decide whether to stay with crop or possibly go FF (6D or maybe 5dMK3).

If Canon can improve the ISO on crop sensors by at least 1 full stop, (and assuming the price is not as high as a FF), I may stay with the croppers. I do love my 17-55 f/2.8. If I can get 2 full stops by going FF, (and the price is not too awful), I may go FF, though it would mean I'd need a new EF lens too.

[davidedric]

Thanks, Scott, that is really helpful.