7D or 1D III ?

[Maritimer1]

I've been saving, now I need to know what I'm saving for. Knowing that I have been doing a lot of ice hockey, will continue to do equestrian sports (jumping, flat work...) and hope to do more team sports, family and pet portraiture, would the recommended camera be a used Canon 1D III or a Canon 7D? I am not at all concerned about video, and both have high frames per second ratings. Whatever the choice, it will be eventually teamed with a 70-200mm f/2.8. (I am certain on that point!) For the past two years, I've been using a Canon 40D that I purchased used from Ebay. It has had the shutter replaced once and the clicks are really getting up there again.

Price wise, there have been two used 1D IIIs for sale in the region for around $1600. A new 7D body goes for about the same amount. At times, the camera will be used to produce photos (mainly sports) that will be offered for sale. (I just finished registering as a business yesterday.) Besides shutter replacement, is there anything that could go seriously wrong, from wear, on a camera? For example, do sensors eventually wear out? That bit of unknown is making me hesitate on the older camera. I have also read that the first versions of the 1D III had focussing issues. Of course, with the internet, that could have been one person's opinion which was relayed many times over.

I have been going over and over this in my head for the past few weeks. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. I think making vehicle purchases and deciding whether or not to marry someone is a lot easier than selecting camera equipment!

Thanks!
Myra

[Andrew76]

Hi Myra! I don't have any experience with either of the cameras, so I can't offer any advice, but I read your post and just wanted to say a big congratulations on your new business! Best of luck to you - let us know how you make out!

[thatguyfromvienna]

Myra,
the 1D has better low light performance, as far as I know in general a slightly better IQ (although both produce brilliant pictures) and has more FPS in continuous mode. Low light performance and FPS could make or break the deal when you're shooting sports.

[rpcrowe]

Myra...

I know that everyone has to start somewhere but, a two camera setup is great for shooting sports (I am primarily talking about outdoor field sports).

Here is a neat video on handling a pair of cameras effectively. This video is primarily aimed at U.S. football but would be applicable for any sports outdoors...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMgZ13X_pr4

Most professional sports photographers end up with rigs something like this The question might be, would the extra weight of a pair of 1Diii cameras be too much of a burden for you? I always carry two cameras and a pair of 1DIII cameras are a lot heavier than a pair of 7D cameras. Probably, the extra weight would not matter in sports photography but for 8-12 hours of walk-around shooting, it might.

I am not a sports photographer, although I occasionally dabble it it. I would guess (and it is only a calculated guess from research) that the 1DIII is a better sports camera than the 7D.

Among other things the 1DIII has pro grade weather sealing, dual card slots and 10 FPS.

OTOH, I just love the 7D for all-around and travel use. I really like my 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens (although not for sports) and, since it is an EFS lens, it can only be utlized on a 1.6x camera. The 7D is the best focusing 1.6x camera in Canon's inventory and is able to nail focus on fast moving subjects such as this Goldendoodle that I shot yesterday.



I would have no hesitation in using my 7D for any kind of sports but, I would try to rent a 7D and a 1DIII and try them both if I were needing to make a decision between the two cameras.

Here is a snapshot comparison of the two cameras. I don't necessarily agree with all the conclusions drawn but, the comparison is interesting anyway.

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EO...s-Canon_EOS_7D

The snapshot compares the prices of a new 7D against a new 1DIII (and I suspect that is one of the reasons for calling the 7D athe winner). You are talking about a used 1DIII vs a new 7D and the prices are pretty close. I have not researched recent used or refurbished 7D prices (or Canadian prices) but, I paid just under $1,100 for my 7D; through the Canon Loyaty Program by trading in a broken 10D. I would rather shoot with a pair of used 7D cameras than a single 1DIII if the prices were fairly close; even if the 1DIII is a better sports camera.

[dan marchant]

Buy the camera that does the job you need done. If you are a pro sports photographer who flies around the world shooting Premier League Soccer day in day out or NFL or NHL then you want a piece of kit that will not only produce good images but will also keep on working day in and day out. Most camera's will take good photos in the hands of a good photographer but one of the key differences between a 1D and a 40D is that one will probably fail before the other if used all day every day.

Pro-Pros buy the 1D because it has a high build spec as well as great image quality but if you aren't going to be shooting at that level, every day, all day, you probably don't need it. There is also the issue that a used camera may have suffered wear and tear that would mean it fails earlier, whereas a new 7D with a warranty will be less likely to fail and covered by warranty if it does.

The final point to consider is how the images will be used. There are many professional wedding photographers (not necessarily top tier) using a 60D or similar. They are producing albums and prints and the image quality they get is ample for that. So, if the images coming out of a 7D are suitable for your needs then I would go with that. I owned one until very recently and it is a lovely camera. The AF is wonderful, the controls are great, the build quality is very good and the extra reach you get from the crop sensor when attaching it to a 70-200 is very helpful in fields sports.

[Maritimer1]

Thank you! These comments certainly give me food for thought. My shooting will be mainly on the weekends (full time other job in between) and late afternoons. I'm not looking to make a lot of money; I want to provide the opportunity for non-photogs to keep their memories in print. I would rather they buy multiple shots at a reasonable price than one shot at an inflated one. My market is very small town, so good pricing in this segment of the market is an important issue.

Now, the question of what is suitable for my needs is a big one. The parents, so far, like the shots from my 40D. I, on the other hand, always want to do the best I can with what I have. Am I a Pro Photographer in the big leagues? No! <LOL> But, even though I might be shooting mainly minor/youth sports, I want those pictures to be great. It takes the same amount of time to shoot and process from a 40D as it does a 1D, right? So, my thinking, at the moment, is veering towards the used 1D. As mentioned, it's rugged, weather sealed, fast...

I spent a few hours comparing rink and field shots with the 1D III and 7D (each with a 70-200) on Flikre last night. The 1D kept coming out on top (realizing, of course, that photographers will vary in their PP abilities). That may be, as Alexander pointed out, that is has great low light capabilities. I think the 7D would be wonderful for the pet/portrait side of things. It's fast and accurate, as Richard as shown.

Dan, the thought of shooting weddings scares me! I did two, with a Minolta 7000i, many years ago and was totally stressed out<LOL>. I will leave weddings to those who specialize in that field. We have several photographers in this area who have fantastic images on their sites... and fantastically high prices, too!

Carrying two cameras would not be a problem for me. I tend to be built more along the lines of an Amazon than a Twiggy and am used to hoisting bales of hay and heavy buckets of water.

Alex, thanks for the thumbs up. I did my first paying tournament a couple of weeks ago. It was one of the most exhilerating things I have done. Maybe I have a dull life, but it was just wonderful to have that opportunity

Two years ago, I was happily taking photos with my first DSLR...CinC, what have you done to me!? I am off to check out the link sent by Richard.

[rpcrowe]

Myra...

You mentioned, "I spent a few hours comparing rink and field shots with the 1D III and 7D (each with a 70-200) on Flikre last night."

I am not at all trying to say that the 7D is superior to the 1DIII for sports, if fact, I "think" just the opposite. However when viewing images shot with different equipment, I think that you must factor in the skill and experience levels of the users of that gear. You are considering this when you state, "photographers will vary in their PP abilities".

However, IMO, generally images shot more expensive and specialized gear will be better than images posted that are shot with other gear. Usually, more experienced (which should = more talented) photographers are the ones who are purchasing and using the specialized gear. The photographers with the expensive gear will usually be the ones that have sideline passes and be able to shoot from better vantage points.

However, have you viewed the, IMO, excellent sports (mostly Rugby and Lacrosse) shots posted by Joanne Van Praag of Usk, Wales, who posts under the screen name: mammarazzi. She does some great work with a Canon camera (I don't know which one) and uses a 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 lens. That lens is an excellent wildlife glass but, I have not seen a whole lot of sports coverage using it. However, Joanne, who is not a professional sports photographer consistantly produces and posts great images using that gear.

I guess what I am saying is that except for pro sports photographers, the 1DIII (while probably the best or at least one of the best sports cameras) is not absolutely necessary gear to achieve good sports coverage.

[Maritimer1]

Totally agree. I'm all for making the best of what one has. (95% of everything I do is with the 85mm.) However, if one can get a great camera at the same price as another, shouldn't that be considered? If I could buy a good working Volvo that was five years old or a similar sized new Chev/Ford/Dodge for the same price, I'd go for the Volvo. They're both going to get me where I need to go, but the Volvo is built to last and has great mechanics. Maybe some might think it is overkill for an amateur to buy a 1D series camera, even if it's older?

Seems like this thread is leading me to a 1D III if I can find one in good condition. Thanks!

[Geoff F]

I would say your first consideration, Myra, is do you want a full frame or crop sensor camera. That will limit your options to begin with.

Personally, with most of my photography being wildlife, or other zoomed scenes, it has to be a crop for me.

I've recently moved from a 40D to a 7D and, like many people, found some of the 7D settings a little complicated to understand and operate during 'real life shooting' when thinking time is limited.

But, eventually, I have managed to alter most of the problem areas to operate in a similar manner to my well trusted 40D.

The 7D does have quite a few more pixels which can be useful when substantial crops are required. But on the downside, full size files are so large that my relatively new computer can begin to struggle and I often downsize shots, which will never be printed bigger than 12 ins, just to save storage size.

[Colin Southern]

I would say your first consideration, Myra, is do you want a full frame or crop sensor camera.

Hi Geoff,

They're both crop-factor cameras, although the 1D3 is "only 1.3x" crop factor.

Unfortunately, what we're usually talking about in discussions like this isn't the crop-factor per se (that only affects field of view) - it's the resultant resolving power - and if that's the case then number of pixels also comes into it. Case in point - a 1D3 -v- a 1Ds3. The 1D3 (at 10MP) with it's 1.3x crop-factor will look like it's giving you a telephoto advantage, but the 1Ds3 (at 21MP) has about 30% better resolving power (ie if you take a shot with the 1Ds3 - crop it so that you have the same field of view as the 1D3 - you'll still have about 30% more pixels left than the same shot at the same focal length taken with the 1D3).

In terms of the 7D -v- 1D3, the 7D eats it alive in terms of the crop factor advantage (higher crop-factor AND more pixels).

On the flip side though, there's a LOT more to cameras than resolving power; the 1D3 will eat the 7D alive in terms of auto focus performance - frame rate - weather sealing - dual media capability - firmware options - build quality etc.

Not saying Myra should go fo a 1D3 (I'd suggest a 1D4 if anything) - but they are vastly different cameras.

[rpcrowe]

I've recently moved from a 40D to a 7D and, like many people, found some of the 7D settings a little complicated to understand and operate during 'real life shooting' when thinking time is limited.

That is the beauty of the 7D's three User Selected Modes. I am at an age at which chewing gum and walking at the same time taxes my mental capabilities to the fullest.

However, I can set up the complicated parameters of the 7D beforehand and register the parameters into one of the three User Selected Modes. Then I can choose all of the parameters with which I want to shoot with one twist of the Mode Dial; no more setting up the parameters: ISO,exposure type, focus variations, etc. individually in the field (when I am concentrating on putting one foot in front of the other without tripping over myself).

By the way, a great reviw of the extremely sophisticated 7D focusing system can be found at:
http://alexsukonkin.com/reviews/Canon-EOS-7D_en.shtml

The User Selected Modes was one of my favorite bells and whistles of the 40D and I am glad that Canon reverted back to three modes in the 7D. They reduced the number to two in the 50D and further reduced it to one in the 60D for some reason.

If I forget which parameters are registered on which mode, I simply select any mode; then press the Q button and see how that mode is set up. I can select parameters with the joystick and alter them with the dial. This another bell and whistle that I enjoy but, I don't know if it is specific to the 7D.

[Colin Southern]

That is the beauty of the 7D's three User Selected Modes. I am at an age at which chewing gum and walking at the same time taxes my mental capabilities to the fullest.

At least you can manage it, which is more than I can some days!

However, I can set up the complicated parameters of the 7D beforehand and register the parameters into one of the three User Selected Modes.

Possibly not quite as convenient, but the 1D3 can save 3 modes internally, and an infinite number to either memory card.

[Geoff F]

I never did work out the purpose of those three empty positions on the control knob. Perhaps I will have to try to read up on them.

[Scott Stephen]

Still it is hard to pass on the free 1.6 telephoto you get on the 7D. More powerful than adding a 1.4x teleconverter, and without losing a stop of aperature, and focus speed, and IQ, plus it is completely free. You don't want to find your new 70-200 is too short. Then you have to shell out money for a telephoto and you'll probably need to accept a slower piece of glass to get it.

[Colin Southern]

Still it is hard to pass on the free 1.6 telephoto you get on the 7D. More powerful than adding a 1.4x teleconverter, and without losing a stop of aperature, and focus speed, and IQ, plus it is completely free. You don't want to find your new 70-200 is too short. Then you have to shell out money for a telephoto and you'll probably need to accept a slower piece of glass to get it.

Hi Scott,

The 1D3 is still 1.3x crop-factor, so not a big difference in FoV, although less resolving power when MP are taken into account. Having jsut said that though, for internet display, 90 to 95% of the captured information is discarded anyway, so it becomes a moot point. The 1D3 has the higher frame rate (may well be important for sports photography), not to mention dual media capability - longer shutter life - far more rugged build quality.

[GrahamS]

1D-III = Press
1Ds-III = Studio
7D = Sports

[Colin Southern]

1D-III = Press
1Ds-III = Studio
7D = Sports

1Ds3 = Studio & Landscape & Location Portraiture & Commercial Photography