Canon 5DIII / 600EX-RT / ST-E3-RT

[Glenn NK]

Yup. Unlike Colin, I'm not so much interested in these units per se, being costier than I can justify as a hobbyist shooter,

Interestingly, on FM, there are some comments (complaints?) that photogs that shoot for a living wouldn't be able to afford the new offerings, and the new gear more often would be in the hands of well-to-do hobbyists.

And then there are those that seemingly switch back and forth between Canon/Nikon when the next greatest offering pops up - surely these can't be people earning a living from photography? Must just be posturing.

Glenn

[Colin Southern]

Interestingly, on FM, there are some comments (complaints?) that photogs that shoot for a living wouldn't be able to afford the new offerings, and the new gear more often would be in the hands of well-to-do hobbyists.

They're probably the ones that would complain the water was too cold if their rear-ends were on fire and we put it out with the garden hose. Canon aren't stupid - and they're not about to price themselves out of the market; if anything (haven't done the maths, but I doubt it would even be close) - the current solution to have just some of what they're offering would be to get a 580EX II and a PocketWizard TT5 - and I bet that would cost more. In reality the pros will probably sell their old stuff at a reasonable price & buy new for themselves - thus feeding the 2nd hand market just nicely.

And then there are those that seemingly switch back and forth between Canon/Nikon when the next greatest offering pops up - surely these can't be people earning a living from photography? Must just be posturing.

Posturing - in forums? Never happens!

[inkista]

Interestingly, on FM, there are some comments (complaints?) that photogs that shoot for a living wouldn't be able to afford the new offerings, and the new gear more often would be in the hands of well-to-do hobbyists.

Then again, the FM alt. gear forum seems to have more than the average share of rich hobbyists who have M9s, and go through mirrorless camera bodies like potato chips. I love reading what those guys have to say, but no way could I spend like that.

[Glenn NK]

Colin and Kathy:

Of course you both know that I agree with your comments.

I often wonder if it isn't just all talk and no walk.

G

[Colin Southern]

I often wonder if it isn't just all talk and no walk.

In many places I hear a lot of loud opinions ...

... and see very few images.

[herbert]

Then again, the FM alt. gear forum seems to have more than the average share of rich hobbyists who have M9s, and go through mirrorless camera bodies like potato chips. I love reading what those guys have to say, but no way could I spend like that.

Nice. I read a post on a different forum where a guy was asking advice for whether to take a 1Ds and 7D or 1D4 and 5D to complement which or all of the following 500mm f4, 400 f2.8, 300 f2.8 or 100-400 on his 7000 dollar 10 day guided safari. I wanted to see his pictures. I like to think he had fallen asleep when the lion attacked the heard.

I agree with Pierre that this camera is a very nice incremental step. It has everything you would have expected in an upgrade.

What is interesting is that technology updates usually come out for the same price, I.e. you get more for the same price. Think about mobile phones, laptops, cars, etc. However in this case Canon have upped the price. This is clearly to create a three tier full frame market: 5D II, 5D III and 1Dx. I find this perfectly OK. We may even see a 4th full frame camera in the cinema EOS camera announced as in develoment when they debuted the 1Dx. My bet is they will just lift the 5D III sensor for that and give people clean HDMI for their movies.

A lot of people have been asking for an affordable full frame camera. Canon have responded by saying you can still have a 5D mark II. If you want the latest tech then you pay more. Nikon could not do this. They have been unable to sell the D700 in Japan since January due to the battery failing new standards. So they had no option to split the market and kept their price about the same.

If you compare the 5D III to the D800 then on paper it looks worse. However I will wait until until some pictures are printed on that paper. Canon will know very well the market that they can sell to. If after 6 months it is not going well then we shall see a glut of price reductions so they hit their year end targets, exactly like they did last year with long running lens and camera rebates to make up for flood damage hit production impacts.

Alex

[PBelarge]

1. The 5DII has been in production for a while now and the cost/manufacture is lower, hence the price is lower and Canon is still making a good $$.

2. The 5DIII is new and the cost/manufacture for starting up is much higher, hence the higher price. Add to this the Tsunami and Rain/floods, economic situation across the globe and Canon (as well as other manufacturers- hard drive companies) are trying to recoup some of the losses and costs to ramp back up again.

3. The excitement of new equipment and the long anticipation have caused maybe a few more people than one would expect to order this camera. I see the preordering for this unit to be quite high, and I actually expect enough sales generated in the next 12 months to make Canon's bold move (price wise) to pay off quite well for them. Then next year the price will come down and the clamour will settle down and everyone's attention will be on the latest topic. In the mean time the camera will at that time still be selling like hot cakes (unless the 7D iteration is spectacular).

Okay, time to take my crystal ball and put it away. And try to decide....wait to buy or buy now, hmmmmmmmmm

Yes, I like toys too, and the camera/lens/equipment is all part of my enjoying the photographic experience.

[rpcrowe]

Hey Russ,

With such a major price boost for the MkIII, it wouldn't surprise me if the MkII held its own nicely on the used market. A $700 price increase for an update is a bit hard to stomach. Canon is getting good at that lately.

Yes Canon is getting very proficient at boosting prices on all their products! I sold my 24-70L, my 17-40L and my 70-200mm f/4L recently for quite a bit more than I paid for them years ago! My procrastination in putting these lenses on the market actually worked in my favor!

If Canon keeps boosting prices, buying L glass will be like investing in gold... and you will have something to play with while the price is going up

[inkista]

I think most of the argument over pricing that you see is coming from three different arenas: 1) the Nikon D800 being priced at $3000 gave rise to 'same price' expectations; 2) the 5Dii having been priced at $2700 on intro, after the 5D classic had be $3200 gave rise to expectations of a falling price, not a rising one (despite all the additional hardware features that have been added inevitably inflating cost), and 3) the usual currency value shifts, so that everybody likes to tell us Yanks we're spoiled rotten by low prices and what are we complaining about? Someone on POTN did point out, though, that if you look at the price in Japanese yen, the values have actually stayed level across all three 5D models.

In many places I hear a lot of loud opinions ...

... and see very few images.

Definitely not the case with FM's Alt. Gear folks. When I said they had a disproportionate number of folks with M9s, I mean "they've got a 380+ page thread entitled "Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread".

BTW, if anybody missed it, here's Chuck Westfall demoing the 600EX-RT on Youtube. A little more nuts'n'bolts than Syl Arena's preview.



Looks to me like Syl Arena's "10,000" channels figure was wrong. Given that you have 15 RF analog channels to choose from, and 0000-9999 as the ID within each channel, to me that means there's 150,000 channels to choose from. Someone tell me if my math is off.

And here's the 5Diii's HDR/multiple exposure modes:

[Glenn NK]

Someone on POTN did point out, though, that if you look at the price in Japanese yen, the values have actually stayed level across all three 5D models.

. . . . which determines the cost to produce the camera, and in turn what we pay for it, and since the feature list has grown each time, in effect each version is a better buy. Unfortunately for Canon (or any manufacturer) the exchange rates are out of their control.

Glenn

PS EDIT:

Kathy - do you know which thread that comment was made on?

[inkista]

Kathy - do you know which thread that comment was made on?

No, sadly. And even worse, I might be confused, and it could've been on dpreview or FM.

Ah. Found it. It was on FM, and it was just the MkII vs. the MkIII, not all three models. Sorry 'bout that. My memory kind of leaks like a sieve these days.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/top...703/3#10398980

BTW, I left a comment on Syl Arena's first impressions blog post, to which he replied. Still no wireless rear-curtain sync, dammit. (sigh).

[Glenn NK]

No, sadly. And even worse, I might be confused, and it could've been on dpreview or FM.

Ah. Found it. It was on FM, and it was just the MkII vs. the MkIII, not all three models. Sorry 'bout that. My memory kind of leaks like a sieve these days.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/top...703/3#10398980

BTW, I left a comment on Syl Arena's first impressions blog post, to which he replied. Still no wireless rear-curtain sync, dammit. (sigh).

Thanks Kathy:

In essence, the price has gone down from that of the 5DII.

Currency exchange rates determine the cost of imported cameras, and they have changed since 2008.

Release price of the 5D II in 2008 was 288,684 Japanese yen.

Release price of the 5D III in 2012 is 285,658 Japanese yen.

Glenn

[inkista]

I looked up the historical exchange rate for the 5D classic. It was substantially more expensive (not unexpected, since it was the first of its kind, and Nikon had no similar camera to challenge it price-wise). In November of 2001, the exchange rate was around the 120 yen / USD mark (vs. 107 in 2008, and 81 in 2012). And the intro body MSRP was US$3299. That means in yen, the price was ¥398,880.

[Colin Southern]

If Canon keeps boosting prices, buying L glass will be like investing in gold...

Or even better than gold (I have some, and it isn't going up much recently!)

[Colin Southern]

BTW, I left a comment on Syl Arena's first impressions blog post, to which he replied. Still no wireless rear-curtain sync, dammit. (sigh).

Interesting.

Might be a bit of life left in the old PocketWizards yet! I wonder if the TT5s will play nice with the 600EX-RT?

Probably not a good time to buy shares in RadioPopper and LPA design!

[thorondor]

I see big improvements over Mark II. Canon intentionally turned 5D Mark III in to a real professional camera, now 5D series is in the 1D series level for me, at least a real alternate.
Look at all the improvements and additions over Mark II, it is impressive:

http://www.dslrpassion.com/news/36-c...omparison.html

[Colin Southern]

I see big improvements over Mark II. Canon intentionally turned 5D Mark III in to a real professional camera, now 5D series is in the 1D series level for me, at least a real alternate.
Look at all the improvements and additions over Mark II, it is impressive:

http://www.dslrpassion.com/news/36-c...omparison.html

I'm in 2 minds about this to be honest; on one hand they've certainly raised the bar on the 5D series (a LOT!) - but on the other hand, they've also raised the bar on the 1D series too (going from 5 FPS on the previous flagship to 14 being just one example).

Personally, I think most who shoot with both professionally will probably still prefer the 1Dx over the 5D3.

[Glenn NK]

I looked up the historical exchange rate for the 5D classic. It was substantially more expensive (not unexpected, since it was the first of its kind, and Nikon had no similar camera to challenge it price-wise). In November of 2001, the exchange rate was around the 120 yen / USD mark (vs. 107 in 2008, and 81 in 2012). And the intro body MSRP was US$3299. That means in yen, the price was ¥398,880.

Thanks for the link to the chart - very useful.

Most of the disgruntlement seems to be coming from comparison of the US prices of the II and the III.

Glenn

[rpcrowe]

I looked up the historical exchange rate for the 5D classic. It was substantially more expensive (not unexpected, since it was the first of its kind, and Nikon had no similar camera to challenge it price-wise). In November of 2001, the exchange rate was around the 120 yen / USD mark (vs. 107 in 2008, and 81 in 2012). And the intro body MSRP was US$3299. That means in yen, the price was ¥398,880.

The drop in the value of the dollar against the yen is probably the main the reason why the prices of Canon gear (and I assume other manufacturer's gear) have been going up. When I am not in a country, I tend not to keep track of their currency against the dollar.

Oh my! I remember the days (mid-1960's) when the yen was 360 against the dollar.. A Tokyo cab ride was 90-yen or 100-yen (depending on the size taxi) and a beer was about 100-yen in most bars (not nightclubs though) and best of all, I could buy a Canon or Nikon film SLR camera for around $100 or so U.S. Dollars. Those were the glory days for Yanks in Japan. Everything was inexpensive and the gear that Japan was turning out, Nikon cameras, Sony electronics, etc. had become top-line.

[inkista]

Interesting.

Might be a bit of life left in the old PocketWizards yet! I wonder if the TT5s will play nice with the 600EX-RT?

The -RT units operate on 2.4GHz. PocketWizard HAS to be at 433MHz to have backwards compatibility with Plus IIs and MultiMaxes. Unless the PocketWizards can be updated to work on two bands simultaneously (unlikely), I doubt they'll play well together. That's not to say PW might not come up with a whole new line of units that operate at 2.4GHz, but then all your old PWs wouldn't be able to play with them.

Probably not a good time to buy shares in RadioPopper and LPA design!

Actually, given that the RPs operate at 2.4GHz, they have less of a technological mountain to climb to interoperate with the RT units. And given that they merely pass through signals rather than messing with the protocol itself, unless Canon completely reworked the signalling protocols, they mostly just have to work out how the light signals get turned into radio signals. And given that the 600EX-RT does both, I'd bet it's not completely different encoding. The biggest possible roadblocks are the analog channel tuning, and the use of four-figure ID codes. Any 3rd party trigger would need a way to enter that code and get a non-RT EX unit to understand it.

But I'm guessing they may still be the best bet for the holy grail of "can't I just get an add-on to my 580EXII to work with the new RF protocol?" If it's even feasible. The big problem is what the 580EX II will do with -RT signals that aren't part of the protocol they know. Upgradeable firmware for speedlights would be a terrific thing to have now, wouldn't it (I'm looking at you, Canon. If Nissin and Metz can do it...)?

If Canon does their usual "we don't care about real-world budgets" thing, and replaces the EX units with the EX-RTs, that's one thing. But given that they've announced they're releasing 600EX-RTs and 600EX units (without the RF stuff) in them) for markets where the 2.4GHz band isn't available, I'm curious to see if this is a parallel product development (like the 1DX / 5DIII, rather than a replacement one.