Facial Recognition in PP software

[Dave Humphries]

Hi all,

It occured to me the other day that with the forthcoming Panasonic TZ7 point and shoot having Facial Recognition (not just Detection for focus and exposure), why didn't someone put it in PP software. I think I then saw or heard an ad where they have (can't remember who though).

The idea is that once the camera (TZ7), or software, recognises the same facial features in a few shots, it assumes this is a say, a family member and offers to record metadata against it for future use; typically a name and date of birth - I assume this is then put into the tags/keyword field of EXIF info to automatically tag your portraits with names, making subsequent searches much easier on your computer.

Neat idea for say, Elements 8, assuming whoever has already done it hasn't protected the idea.

One would hope it works on groups to, so it would automatically have the names listed for everyone in a given shot (Hi Kori - this could be made for you!)
And in PP world, once it's done that, you could ask it to go through you library looking for other shots to update (if it could ne trusted).

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Colin Southern]

Hi Dave,

Don't know about you, but often I think all of this new fang-dangled sophistication can sometimes go too far - personally, I'd rather have something like leveling info info in Exif data so shots could be automatically leveled (if desired).

[crisscross]

You don't secretly (or brazenly seems the latest style) work for the police do you Dave?

[Dave Humphries]

You don't secretly (or brazenly seems the latest style) work for the police do you Dave?

Nope, although my Dad did, but that was in the sixties while I were nowt but a lad.

I just have an interest in the application of technology to where it can or might be useful to ordinary folk. When I took family snaps, it was a drag manually adding keywords for everyone in them. Why would I do that, well as I said, so if you need a picture of Auntie Mabel, you can find it quickly.

Evenin' all.

[Dave Humphries]

I'd rather have something like leveling info info in Exif data so shots could be automatically leveled (if desired).

Hi Colin,

That's a good idea, although if you've got the data, why not manually use it (Olympus E-30) or have the sensor cleaning/anti-shake vibrator rotate the LCD to correct it?

Cheers,

[pixel pete]

Hi Dave,
Your desire to speed up identifying, sorting and organizing all your personal pictures is quite understandable. Apple's iPhoto has included such a feature called Faces and Places.

The first time you launch iPhoto after the upgrade, it takes a long time because the program goes through your entire picture library and tries to find identical faces and sort them.

Then it's up to you to verify the people are who "it" thinks it is.

There is some training iPhoto09 needs to do. The more you "correct" its mistakes, the more reliable it is. Sort of like the dictation software where you speak and the program types.

For me, iPhoto09 and this latest facial recognition capability is worth it. It seems to have its limitations. If the person is in profile, the algorithmn sometimes doesn't recognize him/her.

But it's a step in the right direction. Makes finding pictures of Aunt Mabel easier. Now if only I had an Aunt Mabel in my family...

[batman44]

One would hope it works on groups to, so it would automatically have the names listed for everyone in a given shot (Hi Kori - this could be made for you!)

Hi Dave!

I think this is more information than my little brain could handle right now!
But it does sound nice- one day!

Kori

[Bill44]

Well different people have different needs, but I can find all the shots of Aunt Mabel in Lightroom without any problems. The words "Aunt" & "Mabel" are simply put in the keywords at PP time.
Because Lightroom uses a database system I simply do a search for "Aunt Mabel", and within seconds I have all the shots, without any problems of which way she may be facing.

[Davey]

Hmm I love technology a little too much but think this might not be great. More to do with automation error than the idea, I think the idea is very nice, although I have no use for it. I'm sure the police already have a similar but more advanced one too so doubt they'd bother, most police/military/defence and intelligence agencies use restricted software that is higher spec that consumer variants that tends to be more reliable & more powerful but requires a lot of user input (who's skilled in that area) and/or specialist equipment.

For average consumers such features are always automated to the point of being "1-click process" or at best very minor input. I find this makes things problematic as multistage processes using complex algorithms with highly variable data samples (most photos, unless it's passport photos taken from same angle) often result in Computer Says No situations. Mixed with little user input and skill (meaning they won't generally know the ins and outs of the facial rec technology) means in practise it's often nowhere near what I'd expect due to severe automation issues/generic formula bottlenecking.

Give me facial recognition that takes a lot of input at each step, once the bulk is done you can write scripts or save profiles/templates and then the bulk of input for similar stuff after that is just fine tuning. Also discrete step process with the option of binning the gui and dropping to cli if need be (for automated self written scripts or speed increase or problem resolving) and being able to pass cli arguments to gui since if you can't unless there is a button you can't do it otherwise. Guaranteed such an application would have little error and do things very well, to the standard of around what is technically possible which is sufficient for most if not all. However the learning curve is steeper and it would require several days to learn how to use it properly and it's not "one click", out the box at least since you can make it that way BUT that kind of automation is ok because you can fix if broken and it's tuned for you by you.

Most people wouldn't bother with this though, which is a shame since it would meet their expectations and probably surpass them in areas other than initial learning step. Just my opinion but many will disagree because my view although shared by many is generally resisted hence most software is heavily automated. People just don't want to learn about the app and get more and would rather the app did the hard bit for them at the cost of quality/accuracy.

[Dave Humphries]

Thanks Pete,

I think it was iPhoto I heard about doing this!
it was bugging me not being able to remember.

.. and also for 'understanding'

Cheers,

[Colin Southern]

Reminds me a little of the microprocessor controlled mouse trap ...

They install 4 motion sensors (one in each corner of the room), and as the mouse walks across the floor it's actual position is computed from information fead back from the 4 motion sensors to the central computer -- at which point the rodent is blasted by a laser. Yours for only $175,000 (+ local taxes, delivery, and installation).

(or for $1.75 you can get a 2 spring traps and a small piece of cheese from the local supermarket - which works just as well!)

[The Blue Boy]

@ Colin.

Must get one of those!

[crisscross]

(or for $1.75 you can get a 2 spring traps and a small piece of cheese from the local supermarket - which works just as well!)

Using cheese in mousetraps is a myth! For most mice you don't need anything, they follow trails fairly precisely and just blunder in. For the occasional very wee timorous beastie, bacon rind that they have to pull at is far better.

What on earth has this got to do with photography???

[Bill44]

Using cheese in mousetraps is a myth! For most mice you don't need anything, they follow trails fairly precisely and just blunder in. For the occasional very wee timorous beastie, bacon rind that they have to pull at is far better.

What on earth has this got to do with photography???

Everything! You could rig a sensor to the trap to fire your preset camera at the moment the trap goes off.

[Colin Southern]

Using cheese in mousetraps is a myth! For most mice you don't need anything, they follow trails fairly precisely and just blunder in. For the occasional very wee timorous beastie, bacon rind that they have to pull at is far better.

You mean I didn't need to tie the cheese on with dental floss after the cheeky creatures kept stealing it? Actually, I did catch one just the other day using peanut butter!

What on earth has this got to do with photography???

I was creating an analog to better explain my thoughts towards some of the over-complication of simple concepts. A bit like the old story of NASA spending millions to develop a pen that worked in zero-G where in the same situation the Russians just used a pencil.

[batman44]

See guys...this is why I'm hopelessly addicted to this site!

[Dave Humphries]

A bit like the old story of NASA spending millions to develop a pen that worked in zero-G where in the same situation the Russians just used a pencil.

Ah, but when the tip snaps off the pencil and they've got conductive detritus floating around the capsule getting into the works and possibly making things malfunction.

... and what mousetrap do they use in space?