Colour management when printing

[rpnik]

Does anyone have a problem I face of not being able to instruct Photoshop cc or Lightroom5 software to turn off colour management when I'm printing and want to use a specific profile?
I use a Mac version 10.9.3.

[Shadowman]

I've yet to print with LR, only Elements and until recently Elements would allow me to (or at least it would default back) to allowing the printer to handle color management. Since I installed a new printer, the "allow Photoshop Elements to handle color management" is permanently selected. I haven't tried to change it. Are you using a new printer perhaps?

[rpnik]

yes a epson r3000

[Colin Southern]

Normally you'll want to have Photoshop handle the colour management and have colour management switched off in the printer.

[Shadowman]

yes a epson r3000

So I am assuming you want to install a paper profile. You should be able to do that through LR, if the paper isn't shown check the manufacturer's website. I use Epson luster paper on an hp printer and obviously I wouldn't have the paper profile available, Epson suggests I just set paper type to glossy and go for it.

[mastamak]

In Lightroom you have to do two things (assuming you have installed the correct printer/paper profile)
1. In Page Setup, select your printer and go to Properties. Choose the Media Type, Color and Print Quality. Then for Mode click the radio button for Custom - select Off (No Color Adjustment)
2. Now, in the print menu under Color Management select your printer & paper combination. If you have installed the profiles correctly you should have a profile that reads something like "Epson R3000 PremiumGlossyPhotoPaper". If not, select Other and find your profile in the available list.
This works pretty good for me

[DanK]

I do what Grant wrote, except that the location of the option in the printer software is in a different dialog on my printer. The principle is the same: you have to use the printer setup to turn off printer control of color. Otherwise, when you tell LR to impose a profile for a given paper and printer, the system will be applying two profiles.

[Manfred M]

If your R3000 is set up the same way as my Epson 3880, then all of the Epson paper profiles are all installed on the printer (they did a paper change about a year ago and I was able to install them using the printer drivers on the Epson website).

I tend to stick to the Epson papers, as they have a more than adequate range for my needs and have made it really easy to use on their printers. I have used third party paper profiles as well, when I do use them, and that really just adds one more step in the print workflow.

[RSPIII]

Normally you'll want to have Photoshop handle the colour management and have colour management switched off in the printer.

Why is that? This is a big hole in my understanding of color reproduction. What is gained by letting Photoshop manage the colors? Why wouldn't the driver (presumably engineered by the printer maker) do a better job?

[Polar01]

Here is now I think about your statement RSPIII (real name would be nice), the colours you see on your screen are handled by the processing program you are using said LR or PS. Now if you let the printer handle colour to print the file you sent it, the printer will look at the data (colours) and may say well that is not correct so "I" will correct, now you compare the printed image and the image on the screen, then say rather loudly "W#*%&)*@K", that is what happens.
Now to throw a wrench into the above statement, I use an Epson printer and have found that I allow the printer to manage colours by setting it to enhanced B&W I find it does a better job with B&W images than if I allow Photoshop to manage colours.

Cheers: Allan

[RSPIII]

... the colours you see on your screen are handled by the processing program you are using said LR or PS. Now if you let the printer handle colour to print the file you sent it, the printer will look at the data (colours) and may say well that is not correct so "I" will correct, now you compare the printed image and the image on the screen, then say rather loudly "W#*%&)*@K", that is what happens.

I think you're touching upon my lack of understanding here. The image (as displayed) has to be converted (according to the gamut profile of the paper) regardless. What changes other than that prescribed by the rendering intent would the driver make that photoshop wouldn't make? Why would photoshop do that conversion better or differently?

[you can call me] Bob.

[Polar01]

Ok Bob, when you turn on the Gamut Warning you will see if any colours are out of Gamut. This means that the printer cannot print those colours as you see them on your screen. Now you have some choices, adding hue/saturation adjustment layers you can correct this or by using a different choice of paper stock. This will take care of the gamut problem, but will it take care of printing an image that looks like what you see on the screen?
Lets also take care of another problem that could happen, to prevent this lets say that your screen has had a custom profile done to it, so we know that the colours that you see on the screen are correct. With that done we can now go to colour management at the printer.
When you state to the printer that Light Room (LR) or Photoshop (PS) is to manage colours it will print the values of the colours that these programs supply the printer. On the other hand if you state "Printer to manage colours" than the printer will adjust those values that (LR)/(PS) provide into what it the printer believes they should be. The result is the image may not appear as on the screen, notice that I said "may not appear", if the values of the colour are the same in both management systems then no problem, but what if there is, so a fight goes on at to which value is correct as you stated "Printer to manage Colour" then it will print the value it wants. It if only affects a tiny amount of the image you may never see it, however if it affect a large amount of the image you will see it.
Now after all that, If you were just printing from jpegs then I would let the printer manage colour as the colour space of your images is sRGB which the printer can handle just find with no problems. Where the problems start is with the larger colour spaces such as Adobe RGB and ProPhoto RGB as these are larger colour spaces.
Colour management and Printing can sometimes take a while to get wrapped around your head, I know that it did for me.

Cheers: Allan

[royphot]

Hi.

If you are using Epson Paper and Epson Ink in an Epson Printer, the Printer will use the Generic Paper Profile which corresponds to your "Media" choice, when you choose to let "Printer Manage". This profile will apply corrections to the print data being sent by the program and will produce pretty good results, assuming you are using the specified paper.

If you choose to let Ps Manage and choose the correct "Media" setting and the correct Paper Profile, then Ps will do as good and perhaps a marginally better job.

However, when you are using paper and or ink which are not the Printer Brand, then you cannot choose "Let Printer Manage" and must let Ps Manage and must also have and choose the correct Profile for that Ink onto that Paper in that Printer in order to get a correct Colour Print. Some 3rd party Paper companies will provide Profiles for their papers in certain printers, or you can make your own if you have the right hardware devices.

It is imperative to ensure that either the Printer or Ps are chosen to Manage the Colour, but never both.

There is a lot more to Colour Management than just arranging for the Print Colours to be In Gamut. All File Types and all Working Space Profiles need to have proper Colour Management applied between the Editing Program and the Printer.

Roy

[Colin Southern]

Why is that? This is a big hole in my understanding of color reproduction. What is gained by letting Photoshop manage the colors? Why wouldn't the driver (presumably engineered by the printer maker) do a better job?

That's a really good question - and you just wouldn't believe how complex the answer to that is!

The short answer is that Photoshop knows the exact colour required, whereas the printer doesn't - so if you let the printer manage the colours then you'll always get what the PRINTER (driver) thinks you wanted. The results are often "in the ballpark", but for far closer accuracy you'll need to enter the world of profiles.

Colour management is a big topic and their are "small", "medium" and "Large" publications on it that you really need to get familiar with (depending on how keen you are).

The small one can be found here for free (it's very good):

http://www.nativedigital.com/practic...-v5-ebook-pdf/

The BEST one can be found here (not for the faint-hearted though):

http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Col...our+management

[royphot]

That's a really good question - and you just wouldn't believe how complex the answer to that is!

The short answer is that Photoshop knows the exact colour required, whereas the printer doesn't

That is not quite true.
Photoshop knows as little about the real colour as the Printer does.

What makes the corrections are Printer Profiles. They apply incremental changes to the numbers in the Image File so that when the printer uses the adjusted data, it produces Colours which almost match reality.

When you install a Printer Driver, it will also have installed Printer Profiles onto your operating system. they will be for the Printer Makers Photo Papers. They are reasonably accurate when using that Printer with those Papers and Oem Ink. When you choose "Let Printer Manage" the Driver will use the Profile which matches your choice in the "Media" setting.

Having said that, you need to be careful that you don't make a Driver selection which excludes the use of these Profiles.

Those profiles are Generic, they have been calculated for that Model of Printer, but your particular printer may vary slightly from the average. That will also be the case for Profiles supplied by Paper Makers.

You can also set Photoshop to use those Profiles, and they will have the same degree of accuracy in Photoshop as they have in the Printer Driver.

For really accurate Profiles you need to use Custom Profiles which are made from colour patches produced by your printer. They are only accurate for one specific paper and ink. These Profiles can only be used by "Let Photoshop Manage.

I hope this helps a little. Nowadays, you don't need to know all the theory behind Colour Management, provided you can follow the instructions.

Roy

[Colin Southern]

That is not quite true.
Photoshop knows as little about the real colour as the Printer does.

What makes the corrections are Printer Profiles.

If you're printing from Photoshop - with Photoshop managing colour - then those profiles you mention are under control of Photoshop, as they should be. Photoshop is also taking care of representing the image in a device independent colourspace and (if setup correctly) handling source profile mismatches, with the net result being that - at best - a printer using the correct profile will equal, but never better Photoshop's management.

In the real world Photoshop managing colour will normally be more accurate, albeit for the best accuracy the OP will need to profile his camera, monitor, and each printer / ink / paper / media settings combination.

Bottom line is though, I don't know anyone who's knowledgeable about colour management who would recommend letting the printer control colour.

[RobertArdill]

Sometimes we want to be able to print without colour management at all - for example to print a chart to calibrate a printer (so no colour profile, no colour management). For some reason Photoshop from CS5 onwards (and Lightroom) does not allow colour management to be turned off. To print this you can use a utility supplied by Adobe http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/...n-missing.html - or use Photoshop CS4 to print these files, as I do.