Monitor calibration and color isssues

[sandifersings]

I've been doing this for over 10 years and have yet to solve my print color issues. I calibrate my monitor, talk to an employee at the lab I use, only to have my pictures still coming out blue. I sent a screen shot of my settings and she says, should be good to go. My pictures on my monitor tend to look too warm and so I have been compensating for that… I am a bit frustrated to say the least, because I can't get it right, no matter what I do. I have been reading about color space, and work space and to be honest, not quite there yet in comprehending it, understand it slightly, but not completely. Does it matter what picture style your camera is set to? They (the lab) have said nothing about needing any more information from them… ICC profile? What lab do you use and what workspace do most of you tend to use in Photoshop? I just need help figuring all this out!!!!!
Sandy

[NorthernFocus]

What color profile are the images that you are sending to the lab? Are you converting to sRGB or leaving them in the camera manufacturer's ICC profile? Also does you lab auto correct colors? If so, do they give you the option of not doing so?

Regardless of "soft proofing" etc., printing takes some degree of trial and error. So when you say you've been doing it for ten years, unless you've been using the same lab/printer all that time, you start over each time you change.

[PhotomanJohn]

You probably need to describe your workflow for us to better help including if you are using RAW files or JPGs out of the camera. I will assume that you are sending JPG files to the lab. The color space selected in the camera is not an issue here. Any effects the color space setting have (depending on your processing workflow) will be "baked" into the JPG you view on your screen and send to the lab. So what you see should still be what you get.

The color space you have set into the camera and use during post processing is probably not the issue here either as long as you have embedded the color space into the JPG you send to the lab and it is a profile that they use. All labs I know of accept sRGB and the pro labs I use also accept Adobe RGB as well. Your monitor will probably display sRGB files fairly accurately and most labs do a good job with sRGB files.

Again, more information about your workflow will help in understanding your issues.

John

[sandifersings]

What color profile are the images that you are sending to the lab? Are you converting to sRGB or leaving them in the camera manufacturer's ICC profile? Also does you lab auto correct colors? If so, do they give you the option of not doing so?

Regardless of "soft proofing" etc., printing takes some degree of trial and error. So when you say you've been doing it for ten years, unless you've been using the same lab/printer all that time, you start over each time you change.

Okay, so the 10 years thing… I had issues with my first computer, figured it out. 2nd computer, the girl from my lab came out to help me. I got a Mac a year or so ago, and it seems like it's been since I got that, that I've been having the most issues… I know it's probably something i am doing, but I have no idea what. I have set my color profile according to her suggestions. She did ask me if i was running actions, which I normally do, because my images all look so warm to me on my monitor, only to have them coming back looking blue. I do convert to sRGB. The lab I am using does not to color correction unless indicated.

[sandifersings]

You probably need to describe your workflow for us to better help including if you are using RAW files or JPGs out of the camera. I will assume that you are sending JPG files to the lab. The color space selected in the camera is not an issue here. Any effects the color space setting have (depending on your processing workflow) will be "baked" into the JPG you view on your screen and send to the lab. So what you see should still be what you get.

The color space you have set into the camera and use during post processing is probably not the issue here either as long as you have embedded the color space into the JPG you send to the lab and it is a profile that they use. All labs I know of accept sRGB and the pro labs I use also accept Adobe RGB as well. Your monitor will probably display sRGB files fairly accurately and most labs do a good job with sRGB files.

Again, more information about your workflow will help in understanding your issues.

John

Hi John,
I shoot in raw and start in lightroom with light edits, then take it to PS to finish. I am not sure if I am embedding them, as you say, maybe you can explain how that happens? When it goes to photoshop it is converted to sRGB. The Color profile in LR is ProPhoto RGB which is what they say is recommended. ?

[sandifersings]

This is the profile that is listed when i look at my display settings. I do calibrate though with Spyder4. It won't let me delete this comment. I tried to post a picture, but then realized that the listed profile was the name I saved the calibration under.

[Manfred M]

If your screen has been calibrated / profiled, you should not be seeing images that are "too warm" unless someone has messed around with your screen settings after profiling.

Based on your comments, I wonder if you are having a colour management issue. You say you are working in the ProPhoto colour space in Lightroom. You then finish up in Photoshop. Lightroom does send this profile over to Photoshop (I just confirmed that with my machine).

If you say the lab does not colour manage This means you are continuing to use ProPhoto; do you convert the image to an sRGB image (Edit -> Convert to Profile) before you save to jpeg? Most labs use sRGB, but if the image has a ProPhoto profile, this could be messing things up. I would expect the output to be off.

[PhotomanJohn]

Hi John,
I shoot in raw and start in lightroom with light edits, then take it to PS to finish. I am not sure if I am embedding them, as you say, maybe you can explain how that happens? When it goes to photoshop it is converted to sRGB. The Color profile in LR is ProPhoto RGB which is what they say is recommended. ?

Let's dig a little deeper. You said when it goes to Photoshop it is converted to sRGB. If the conversion is made automatically it is done in Lightroom if you have set the preferences properly. In Lightroom open Preferences and select the "External Editing" tab. The top section will show the default settings for how the file is exported to Photoshop as a result of doing an "edit in" command. Verify that the color space box says sRGB and the rest of the boxes are set how you want them.

Sorry if I am telling you something you already know.

John

[sandifersings]

This is what it looks like. Hope this works. I haven't uploaded an image on here yet!!

[PhotomanJohn]

As the screen shows you are requesting that Lightroom export a ProPhoto TIFF to Photoshop so the file is not converted to sRGB. So going back to what Manfred asked, do you do an Edit Convert to Profile and then select sRGB before you save the file as a JPG? If not, that is probably your problem.

John

[FootLoose]

You say the images are a bit warm after calibrating your monitor with Spyder 4. I found the same thing with my old monitor, and Spyder recognises this is an issue with some brands of monitor. I would be surprised if the mac was one, though.

[Manfred M]

This is what it looks like. Hope this works. I haven't uploaded an image on here yet!!

I see another problem with your workflow. You are using high quality ProPhoto 16-bit in Lightroom and then moving it to lower quality sRGB 8-bit in Photoshop. You should transfer at the same quality level from one program to the next. Keep these the same across both platforms. Downgrading to sRGB should be the very last step in your workflow.

When I use Lightroom (I usually work in Bridge / ACR, rather than Lightroom) I use the <Photo> <Edit in> <Photoshop CC> as my workflow; that way I don't get the intermediate file issues.

[pnodrog]

So you are editing in Photoshop as ProPhoto RGB , doing any edits and then converting to sRGB prior to saving using photoshop as a TIFF or JPG to send to printer?

I often edit in Photoshop but it is a long time since I saved a file using it for sending on. I just complete the edit in Photoshop close it and then return to LR for any export or printing. The LR export module is much more convenient than saving from photoshop.

Note: The additional external editor settings do not effect how Photoshop will save the file but I suppose you know that.

[sandifersings]

Hmm… not sure.

[sandifersings]

I save my file from PS as a jpeg, and it has the option to embed the sRGB profile. Maybe this is a dumb question…I know that LR makes a copy of edits I make in LR, so you say you close the file and go back to LR, does LR automatically detect the edits you did in PS? Never processed that way, so sorry if it seems like a dumb question.

[pnodrog]

I save my file from PS as a jpeg, and it has the option to embed the sRGB profile. Maybe this is a dumb question…I know that LR makes a copy of edits I make in LR, so you say you close the file and go back to LR, does LR automatically detect the edits you did in PS? Never processed that way, so sorry if it seems like a dumb question.

Frankly I think when you are genuinely seeking answers no question is dumb. The edited file will reappear in lightroom with the changes applied. I do my initial adjustments in LR and if I require editing with photoshop go "Ctrl E" (windows) in LR and it opens up in photoshop and then I do the edits and close. It should then be available in LR with the edits in.

[sandifersings]

Thanks for all your help and input, guys!!

[sandifersings]

thanks, L. Paul. There is so much involved in Digital Photography, that I feel like I will never learn the bulk of it! I knew it saved the LR adjustments, but I didn't know the things I did in PS were also there… So you do control E, so on mac would be command e? I will have to check that out if you don't know. I usually need to have them converted to jpeg… and in PS I can't save a 16 bit as a jpeg…. so when you're export, do you do tiffs or jpegs and do you save at 16 bit?

[Manfred M]

thanks, L. Paul. There is so much involved in Digital Photography, that I feel like I will never learn the bulk of it! I knew it saved the LR adjustments, but I didn't know the things I did in PS were also there… So you do control E, so on mac would be command e? I will have to check that out if you don't know. I usually need to have them converted to jpeg… and in PS I can't save a 16 bit as a jpeg…. so when you're export, do you do tiffs or jpegs and do you save at 16 bit?

1. <Ctrl> in PC = <Cmd> in Mac.

2. There is no such thing as a 16-bit jpeg (well not totally true; I believe jpeg 2000 supports 16-bit, but it is not widely used), but the regular jpeg that is used on the internet and for most photographs is 8-bit

[sandifersings]

That's what I thought, since I couldn't save it from PS in 16 bit. Thanks.