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Thread: What went wrong

  1. #1
    Sony-A390's Avatar
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    What went wrong

    recently on a ship criuse I tried to toke some photos of the sea going by. I wanted to do the so called misty or dream type photo. but all I got was a white photo. I thought that you have to leave the exposure on for a time. I have done some of these shots a night and they come out fairly good ( the ones where you cant see the traffic go by only the moving vehichle lights.) So how do you do these shots during the day.Sub Information
    ExposureTime : 1.00Sec
    FNumber : F6.3
    ExposureProgram : Manual
    ISOSpeedRatings : 100
    ExifVersion : 0221
    DateTimeOriginal : 2011:10:10 12:41:05
    DateTimeDigitized : 2011:10:10 12:41:05
    ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
    CompressedBitsPerPixel : 8/1 (bit/pixel)
    BrightnessValue : EV10.0
    ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
    MaxApertureValue : F3.5
    MeteringMode : Division
    LightSource : Unidentified
    Flash : Not fired(Compulsory)
    FocalLength : 18.00(mm)
    MakerNote : SONY Format : 30368Bytes (Offset:976)
    UserComment :
    FlashPixVersion : 0100
    ColorSpace : sRGB
    ExifImageWidth : 4592
    ExifImageHeight : 3056
    ExifInteroperabilityOffset : 31332
    FileSource : DSC
    SceneType : A directly photographed image
    CustomRendered : Normal process
    ExposureMode : Manual
    WhiteBalance : Auto
    FocalLength(35mm) : 27(mm)
    SceneCaptureType : Standard
    Contrast : Normal
    Saturation : Normal
    Sharpness : Normal
    Vendor Original Information
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2

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    Re: What went wrong

    Basically its over exposed, there was too much light coming in with a 1 second exposure, you either needed a quicker shutter speed or an ND filter

  3. #3
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    Hi Wayne,

    Trev is correct about the cause.

    Although I can't really see what's supposed to be there, you are correct about long exposures giving a dreamy effect - I am guessing we should be seeing waves on a beach? I'm not sure a shot of "the sea going by" from a ship, smoothed by a long exposure and ship movement, would be anything more than abstract though, but I haven't tried it.

    Unfortunately, you can't just ignore the basics of exposure! You still have to obey the light meter and set iso and aperture to cope with such a long shutter speed and when that is insufficient, as it will be during the day for 1 second, use an ND filter - typical say 10 stops, to get the light entering the camera down to something it can handle for that length of time.

    Now firstly, thanks for supplying the EXIF data, saves asking a lotta questions.

    Your iso was fine at 100, but the aperture ("FNumber" above), at f/6.3 could have been stopped down to f/22, or even more if possible (e.g. f/32), to give the camera a chance.

    Also, in lieu of an ND filter, a polariser (CPL) if you have one, combined with f/22, would have helped considerably and might have got you a usable shot - depending how bright the daylight was. A polariser blocks about another 2 stops of light, that's why I suggest it.

    Have another go, even if just on a daylight street scene with blurred people, to get the hang of long exposures. In fact I might even try it to give better advice next time (except it's dark now)

    Good luck,

  4. #4
    Sony-A390's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    Thanks Dave and Trev for the advice.
    I was sitting in the cabin of the ship and it was a sunny day, I wanted to get a dreamy shot of the sea going by but with no luck.
    It was then I wished that I could leave a posting with CIC, but as the say in Australia (**** HAPPENS)Anyway I will try some outside shots today and see how I go.
    Thankyou

  5. #5
    Sony-A390's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    Did some testing today and this is what I come up with
    ExposureTime : 1.00Sec
    FNumber : F5.6
    ExposureProgram : Manual
    ISOSpeedRatings : 100
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Sony-A390's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    I took the second shot with different f numberpic2.jpg
    ExposureTime : 1.00Sec
    FNumber : F36.0
    ExposureProgram : Manual
    ISOSpeedRatings : 100
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Sony-A390; 19th October 2011 at 03:21 AM.

  7. #7
    Sony-A390's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    The third shot I took I put a filter that I had lying around. Look at the diferrence.pic3.jpg
    Filter Make= Hoya 55mm PL-CIR made in the Philippines, Im not sure what this means.

    ExposureTime : 1.00Sec
    FNumber : F36.0
    ExposureProgram : Manual
    ISOSpeedRatings : 100
    PS thanks Dave, I really needed this info while Cruising. I even had the filter in the camera bag that i took with me.
    Probably a case of READ BEFORE SHOOTING not SHOOT BEFORE READING
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    Last edited by Sony-A390; 19th October 2011 at 03:35 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: What went wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Sony-A390 View Post
    I took the second shot with different f numberpic2.jpg
    ExposureTime : 1.00Sec
    FNumber : F36.0
    ExposureProgram : Manual
    ISOSpeedRatings : 100
    A couple of things are going on here:
    1. The leaves are in motion, creating blur.
    2. Exposure is too long.
    3. Light reflecting off each individual leaf creating multiple highlights.

    It is for this reason that I do not like photographing trees unless at a close distance or under ideal lighting conditions. No matter how much stability (tripod) you provide for the camera, no matter how fast of a shutter speed you use, the image usually comes out lacking detail, at least for me. Now if you throw in some fall colors, balance your ISO setting, shoot at a very fast speed, you can usually get a decent picture.

  9. #9
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    Re: What went wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowman View Post
    A couple of things are going on here:
    1. The leaves are in motion, creating blur.
    2. Exposure is too long.
    3. Light reflecting off each individual leaf creating multiple highlights.

    It is for this reason that I do not like photographing trees unless at a close distance or under ideal lighting conditions. No matter how much stability (tripod) you provide for the camera, no matter how fast of a shutter speed you use, the image usually comes out lacking detail, at least for me. Now if you throw in some fall colors, balance your ISO setting, shoot at a very fast speed, you can usually get a decent picture.
    Hi John,

    It's going to be a while before he can throw in some fall colours - it's Spring in Australia!

    Wayne, Dave summed it up pretty succinctly. You must obey the light meter. If your exposure is too long you will overexpose the image and the white-out you experienced will be the result. The dreamy effect you're after is achieved by placing a very dark filter in front of the lens. Typically these amount to a light reduction of around 10 stops (if the normal exposure is 1/250, this filter will bring it down to 2 seconds). These filters are expensive and not readily available, most people have to wait about 6 months for delivery.

    If you're just experimenting and having a bit of fun, try using 2 ND8 filters. Combined these should give you about 6 stops (1/250 will come down to 1/8 sec) and if you stop down the aperture a bit you'll get a long-ish exposure. On the down-side it will probably give you a bit of a colour cast, but nothing you can't easily correct in post production.

    Finally, they key is to have your camera on a stable platform (tripod is best) and on a firm base. A boat, floating pier or a plane are moving platforms and not suitable for this sort of thing.

  10. #10
    Sony-A390's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    John,
    I wasnt to worried about the movement of the tree, My aim wast to get a picture on screen.
    The first time I tried to do dream shots during the day (last week) all I got was a white screen, so from a white screen to what Ive learnt know is a big step.

  11. #11

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    Re: What went wrong

    Also depending on the speed and motion of the cruise ship,speed and direction of wind/tide you probably don't need all that slow of a shutter speed to blur out the water.
    What went wrong
    Not the greatest pic, of nothing in particular, just playing with shutter speed and water from a moving boat.
    1/5s f8 by the camera's meter. Boat at 8 knots, sea conditions rippled sea from camera left.
    Part of why I like shooting digital, costs nothing but time to try some things out
    I have heard of (but not tried) people using two cpls coupled together for a sort of poor mans variable nd filter.

  12. #12
    Shadowman's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Sony-A390 View Post
    John,
    I wasnt to worried about the movement of the tree, My aim wast to get a picture on screen.
    The first time I tried to do dream shots during the day (last week) all I got was a white screen, so from a white screen to what Ive learnt know is a big step.
    Wayne,

    Take a photo in AUTO mode, review the settings chosen (they may not always be correct but will get you close-the settings chosen depends on where your were focusing at the time of the shot), read the tutorials and figure out why a specific aperture, shutter speed, ISO setting would be chosen for the particular object, time of day or lighting, and distance from subject. The distance from subject will be important as you learn about aperture and backgrounds.

  13. #13
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    Re: What went wrong

    Old geezers like me had the advantage of beginning our photo careers using manual exposure cameras which didn't have built-in exposure meters. Many of us did not own exposure meters so we calculated our exposure by the rule of "Sunny 16" or by the little exposure handouts which came with each roll of film. I shot film for many years with cameras that had no metering capability before I could afford my first exposure meter, a Weston Master.

    Built-in exposure meters were wonderful additions to our photography but, being used to manually calculating exposure, we will automatically recognize when an exposure is way off. This is a very helpful skill to acquire.

    I suggest that it might be beneficial for everyone not familiar with it, to review the "Sunny 16 Rule"

    http://blog.epicedits.com/2008/06/18...sunny-16-rule/

    In doing so, you will also review the interface between f/stop, shutter speed and ISO which is the basis for all exposure and is explained in a Cambridge in Colour tutorial above.

    If you can pretty well judge what the exposure should be for most images (using the exposure meter between your ears), you can identify when the exposure is way off and take steps to correct it before you trip the shutter...
    Last edited by rpcrowe; 20th October 2011 at 04:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Black Pearl's Avatar
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    Re: What went wrong

    Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons.

    What went wrong

    Now that is a fifteen second exposure taken in broad daylight - how - frankly I don't know but there is an app for that and it works.
    Its called Slow Shutter and some how it manages to let you choose pretty much any shutter speed you want, regardless of how bright the conditions are, and still get a perfect exposure. No I don't understand either but I wish my Nikon did that.

    ...and another:

    What went wrong

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    Re: What went wrong

    Question about his EXIF in the first image? BrightnessValue : EV10.0 ? Where does this come from? Shouldn't that be at EV0.0 like the exposure value?

  16. #16

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    Re: What went wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Tygart View Post
    Question about his EXIF in the first image? BrightnessValue : EV10.0 ? Where does this come from? Shouldn't that be at EV0.0 like the exposure value?
    A brightness value of 0.0 is what you'd get if you took a picture inside a cave - at night. 10 is simply saying how much light there was.

  17. #17

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    Re: What went wrong

    I see, thank you....

  18. #18
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    Re: What went wrong

    I've seen the "exposure problem" come up many times. This book is likely the best reference there is, and ideally should be in every photographer's library:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

    Glenn

  19. #19
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    Re: What went wrong

    Glenn wrote...

    I've seen the "exposure problem" come up many times. This book is likely the best reference there is, and ideally should be in every photographer's library:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

    I have this book and it is pretty accurate and interesting. However, the very best antidote for the OP's problem is a basic idea of generally where the exposure for a scene should be! I could go out and shoot without an exposure meter and my camera on manual and basically get most of my daylight shots in the ballpark of exposure...

    In the old days of film photography each pack of film contained an instruction sheet which provided approximate exposures for different light levels. Most of us did not have exposure meters at the time and relied on these sheets to get approximate exposure...

    I am not saying that the sheets are more accurate than built-in exposure meters. They are certainly not... especially in tricky lighting situations but, they do give a general idea of what the exposure for any given secne might be. If you know what the basic exposure triangle (ISO - Shutter Speed - Aperture) requires for any shot you can adjust the shutter speeds and f/astops anywhere along the line to get the same exposure.

    Another way to get correct longest exposure possible is to use the lowest ISO at which your camera is capable of shooting and set your aperture priority mode at the smallest f/stop (largest f/number). You will most likely need a tripod and shooting from a moving platform: plane, train, car or boat is extremely problematic (possible when you want some very specific blurring effects). You will them be shooting at the slowest speed at which your camera is capable in that instance. Achieving a slower shutter speed would require the addition of a neutral density filter. A CPL filter will allow you use two stops slower shutter speed but, the ND filter is the one that will really allow the slowest speeds.

    The idea in using a slow shutter speed to blur water movement (waterfall, stream or ocean waves) is to have a portion of the scene sharp which will be the non moving rocks, trees, sand, etc and to have the moving water blurred by using a slow shutter speed. Unless you have the stable elements of the scene sharp, you will accomplish only an unintelligible overall blurred image. However, if that is the effect your aiming for, you have succeeded.

  20. #20

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    Re: What went wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn NK View Post
    This book is likely the best reference there is, and ideally should be in every photographer's library:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
    Hi Glenn,

    Not sure if you're aware of this or not, but there's now a later edition of that book, and it's also available in Kindle format.

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