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Thread: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

  1. #41
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Hi Elise,

    I just went through this (choosing a screen), the screen technology you need is called "IPS", that's the type that doesn't do what the "TN" screens do, as Steve unfortunately seems to have I also have one those, as a second screen.

    I would suggest avoiding the shiny screens, too many reflection issues, despite the apparent higher contrast ratio figures.

    I got the Viewsonic VP2365wb (23") as my main screen for editing, it is rotatable to vertical, but somehow I doubt I'll do it
    I have no complaints at all, one reason for going for it was a review on TFT Central that said their screens where well set up straight from the box, as I don't (yet) have a calibrating/profiling device. Looking at Steve's chart link, it has a gamma of 2.2 at the two dim scales and about 2.1 at 48% and they don't vary with viewing angles.

    I don't know enough to advise on LED vs LCD, sorry.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by Dave Humphries; 4th November 2010 at 09:43 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Thanks very much, Dave -- that's helpful.

  3. #43

    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Monitor:

    Mythlady, the VX2250WM-LED and the VX2233 are BAD choices for photo edition
    because they use a TN panel, you must look for IPS/PVA panel, and not for TN ones...
    One way to easy know if the monitor use a TN panel is to look for the viewing
    angles, anything below 178 is a TN panel.
    A good guide about monitors:
    Part 1 http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=36665092
    Part 2 http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=36665450

    Good bang for the buck are the Dell U2311H http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2311h.htm
    or the Dell U2211H http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2211h.htm
    if money is not a problem the NEC PA series or Eizo CG series are the ones to get.

    --------------------------------

    Software to calibrate:

    The best software to calibrate a non Pro monitor(internal hardware LUT) is
    dispcalGUI http://hoech.net/dispcalGUI + Argyll http://argyllcms.com
    They are free and high quality!
    Work with almost any puck or operational systems, Spyders users will love the result...
    Here a guide http://www.juliengille.com/en/blog/2...nd-dispcalgui/
    The settings below may be better than the one from the guide.
    Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    ------------------------------------------------

    Pucks:

    For a non wide gamut and not LED monitor the best puck is the DTP94, but is difficult to find, here they sell http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/dtp94.html

    For wide gamut/LED, the ColorMunki Photo(also creates printer profiles) is the one to get
    and the Spyder 3 is something in between...

    The best bang for the buck is Spyder3 Express + DispcalGUI+Argyll

    If it is a NEC Pro monitor(hardware internal LUT) the best is SpectraviewII + NEC custom recalibrated Eye-One 2.

    Look at this guy tests http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=35872021

    BTW, looks like there is a new bad guy in town http://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-discus/

  4. #44
    mythlady's Avatar
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Well, I've been reading and here is a problem: I can't afford to get a monitor dedicated for photography, if it's going to mean that other folks in the household who play games and so on are going to be unhappy with it (which is what I'm reading -- it's either TN or IPS. Does the twain meet in any way, I wonder? Is there a monitor that's acceptable for a non-pro photographer and good for gaming, or a monitor that's good for photography and acceptable for gaming? Neither faction (photographer or gamer) is high-end; that is, nobody does online gaming where speed is essential.

    This seems very complicated to me --

  5. #45

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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mythlady View Post
    Well, I've been reading and here is a problem: I can't afford to get a monitor dedicated for photography, if it's going to mean that other folks in the household who play games and so on are going to be unhappy with it (which is what I'm reading -- it's either TN or IPS. Does the twain meet in any way, I wonder? Is there a monitor that's acceptable for a non-pro photographer and good for gaming, or a monitor that's good for photography and acceptable for gaming? Neither faction (photographer or gamer) is high-end; that is, nobody does online gaming where speed is essential.

    This seems very complicated to me --
    I'd suggest not getting too caught up in the IPS -v- TN thing ... just because it's TN doesn't mean it's a "bad choice" ... as Donald pointed out, several of us here use them and they're just fine. Yes - things will change with the viewing angle, but they change very little within the normal range of angles that you'll encounter; and when you need them to be "spot on", just make sure you''re looking perpendicular to the screen.

  6. #46
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Thanks so much, Colin -- it's hard to know, when you're reading about technical things, what level people are talking about, when professionals are mixing with amateurs on many forums. I appreciate your advice, which sounds reasonable for my entry-level needs.

  7. #47
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Hi Elise,

    I believe it is true that TN are quick and suffer the viewing angle problem and IPS fix that but some are a bit slower in response times.

    I believe there is a speed boosting technology that can be used to 'hurry up' some IPS screens - of course, it adds to the price
    I didn't bother with it for mine as I don't "game" with it - and I haven't seen any problems with watching TV on it.

    Have a look at TFT Central, it gives very detailed reviews including response times and different viewing with figures and screen shots for both aspects and will show the differences it makes.

    Personally, I much prefer my IPS screen to my previous (laptop) TN screen, so I stick by my recommendation (go IPS), but it is biassed by not being concerned by refresh speed as far as gaming is concerned

    Cheers,

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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humphries View Post
    Personally, I much prefer my IPS screen to my previous (laptop) TN screen
    Hi Dave,

    Probably worth mentioning though that not all TN screens are created equal; Laptop screens can (and often are) so bad they're virtually un-usable for photo work - ones like the 2433VX are (thankfully) at the pretty-darn-good end of the scale.

  9. #49
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Probably worth mentioning though that not all TN screens are created equal; Laptop screens can (and often are) so bad they're virtually un-usable for photo work - ones like the 2433VX are (thankfully) at the pretty-darn-good end of the scale.
    I did wonder, hence qualifying my previous experience.

    I have a cheap TN as a second screen 1366 x 800, and while viewing angles are better than the leptop, it is not good straight from the box - I couldn't set wb on it (by eye) or everything would be magenta (because it is too green), so I still don't recommend too cheap a TN screen (mine is badged "AOC").

    I can see one day I'll do things properly though ...

  10. #50
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Excellent discussion of monitors and calibration. Now, you guys have me thinking about replacing my monitor. Here is a link to a monitor buying guide on CNET. It explains a lot of the technology.

    http://reviews.cnet.com/monitor-buyi...a1.0;buyAdvice

  11. #51
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    As perhaps a final comment, I've got to endorse all that Colin has written.

    Pictus' comments are very technically sound and valid. Dave points up the true position regarding laptops.

    But you are talking about a 22-inch desktop.

    But what I would urge, as I think Colin's messages imply, is that you continue to see this in a real-world situation.

    What you are proposing to buy will do an excellent job for you. Okay, if you plan to look at your screen as you stand upside down, swing from the chandelier, or as you dance around the room, then you may experience some problems as described (but, then, you would deserve to!). However, if you're a reasonably sensible and sane human being (and only you can judge that!) who sits in front of the screen and has worked out that you should set yourself and the screen so that you are looking at it from the correct position, then you will have a positive experience.

  12. #52
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    That is right Donald; I suppose it all started when I got less and less confident after sending a pic to be printed, but my display was calibrated by the chart above, and from my seating position slightly above and eyes in line with the top of it.

    However, I couldn't get black point or white point and the red gradient was just silly, so I got Spyder 3 Pro from Warehouse Express the cheapest.

    First thing, my display has a program running it and my graphics card nVidia which can't be switched off, the last time it got switched off by a windows update I got no screen and had to borrow a vga to restore.

    So I just set to factory for nVidia and switched the display software off, which then gives loads of controls such as brightness, contrast, red, green, blue individually, fine course ect ect.

    So setting contrast and brightness to 50% and ignore the rest gave me a calibration where luminance wasn't achieved and so reset, it said it was right though:

    I checked the chart and got gamma 1.7 but accidentally noticed this moved when I did; so now I have changed my seating position so my face is bang in the middle and I get gamma 2.1 at 48% and 2.2 everywhere else.

    Plus I now get the full range black point white point and gradient on contrast, which was the most important I suppose. The image of the tram now looked like the print and so I did it again. cheers.

  13. #53

    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    The DELL 2209 is good for Photo works and also games
    http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/revie...Responsiveness

  14. #54
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Thanks very much to everyone for this very helpful discussion -- I went ahead and ordered the ViewSonic VX2250WM-LED 22-inch monitor, which is on sale at Amazon right now for $169 ($110 off), with free shipping and 6 months no interest. I think that compared with the laptop that I do much of my editing on, and the desktop that I print from (which has a monitor that came bundled with my daughter's $400 computer ), the new monitor will be splendid. If I ever get to the point where any significant portion of my income is from photography, it will be time for a dedicated monitor, but until then . . .

    I'm sure I will be back to bug you about calibration, once the monitor arrives. You are a terrific resource.

  15. #55
    Moderator Donald's Avatar
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mythlady View Post
    I went ahead and ordered the ViewSonic VX2250WM-LED 22-inch monitor,
    Good on you, Elise. You'll see a huge difference. Enjoy it.

    Once that's paid, I would strongly suggest that the next saving is for something like Spyder 3 Pro (which I use) or one of the other tools available to help you get the display set up properly. I know it's difficult to justify the spend when there are so many other things we want for our camera (and all the other things in life). But if you think you're going to want to share your work, either online or by printing it, then it will be worth it in the end. But, that's for another day. For now, just get the new monitor in and installed and start having fun.

  16. #56
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Thanks, Donald -- I do have an Eye-One device, but it's the budget model and I'm sure the Spyder would be better, but as you say, another day . . .

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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mythlady View Post
    Thanks, Donald -- I do have an Eye-One device, but it's the budget model and I'm sure the Spyder would be better, but as you say, another day . . .
    The Eye-One will be 50 times better than a Mark 1 eyeball

  18. #58

    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Good on you, Elise. You'll see a huge difference. Enjoy it.

    Once that's paid, I would strongly suggest that the next saving is for something like Spyder 3 Pro (which I use) or one of the other tools available to help you get the display set up properly. I know it's difficult to justify the spend when there are so many other things we want for our camera (and all the other things in life). But if you think you're going to want to share your work, either online or by printing it, then it will be worth it in the end. But, that's for another day. For now, just get the new monitor in and installed and start having fun.
    She got a LED monitor, so the sure choices are the expensive spectrometer like the ColorMunki Photo, but it is 2 times the price of the VX2250WM...

    Best she can do is to use her Eye One + Argyll+dispcallGUI, with some luck the result will be good.
    If not, maybe even a Spyder3 wont do as it is not a spectrometer, so do not waste the money for another “cheap” puck and next time get an IPS monitor...

  19. #59
    mythlady's Avatar
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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    Best she can do is to use her Eye One + Argyll+dispcallGUI, with some luck the result will be good.
    I'll try, Pictus, but since I don't even really understand what you're saying, I think I'll just make do with a monitor that goes with my level of skill and experience for now. It will be a giant step up from what I have, and when my abilities advance to the level that I'm not able to do what I want to do with it, then it will be time for a new one. I'm sure I'll manage.

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    Re: Monitor Calibration & Profiling

    From the Argyll website:

    "Once the calibration is done, you will be able to install your new profile"
    OK, so if I calibrate my monitor and install the new profile, am I able to return to the old default profile if I decide to, or is the new profile now the permanent one?

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