Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34

Thread: Experience begets Wisdom

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    4,511
    Real Name
    wm c boyer

    Experience begets Wisdom

    A close friend of one of my sons wanted to borrow my old DSLR to take on a honeymoon in Australia.

    First question...does he know how it works...no, but he wants to take some pictures for an album.
    In spite of the fact that I despise cell phone photography, I do recognize that they have their place...
    like in situations as is this. I inwardedly choked as I suggested that he use a cell phone

  2. #2
    ST1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    North Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,598
    Real Name
    Peter

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Given the circumstances you've described I believe you gave good advice William.

  3. #3
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    14,857
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    I would agree with your advice.

    My experience suggests too much camera in the hands of an inexperienced user can result in worse images than someone shooting a simpler camera that has fewer settings to screw up.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    northern Virginia suburb of Washington, DC
    Posts
    19,064

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Just out of curiosity, William, why do you despise cell phone photography?

  5. #5
    DanK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    4,614
    Real Name
    Dan

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    This doesn't seem like a binary choice to me. There is a lot in between a cell phone and a DSLR. I agree that it is at best pointless and at worst a problem to give a novice too complicated a camera. However, if you assume that they will want most things to be automatic, there are options that are a lot more flexible than a phone, with its fixed-length lens and complete lack of control. For example, a not-to-expensive and pocket-able alternative would be a generation-1 Sony RX100.

    IMHO, the single biggest issue is the fixed-length wide-angle lens. My guess is that this person will encounter some big vistas in Australia, and a wide-angle lens like that on an iPhone is very poorly suited to that.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    4,511
    Real Name
    wm c boyer

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Simply the size of the image they cough out.

  7. #7
    xpatUSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,760
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    . . . I despise cell phone photography, I do recognize that they have their place...
    That they do, William . . .

    Experience begets Wisdom
    Experience begets Wisdom

    . . . it's place was in my pocket while my DSLR, macro lens, tripod, light-meter, reflectors, fill flash were all back at the house.


  8. #8
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    14,857
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    Simply the size of the image they cough out.
    If all I ever do is display them on a computer screen, this is not an issue, regardless of the phone I am shooting with. Even the lower end camera phones exceed what an average computer screen can display.

    Some of the newer phones with 8MP and 12MP cameras most certainly do create decently large images that are quite printable, as long as we don't push too hard. On the other hand, I can show you some quite decent prints that I got using 4MP and 6MP cameras that don't have nearly the performance of what one can get out of a camera phone.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't be too happy using them for large prints.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    northern Virginia suburb of Washington, DC
    Posts
    19,064

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    Simply the size of the image they cough out.
    Did you also despise the early digital cameras because of the size of the image they coughed out, which were smaller than the image files produced by today's cell phones?

  10. #10
    xpatUSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,760
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    Simply the size of the image they cough out.
    My old Samsung Galaxy coughs out 3264x2448px. 50% wider than my Sigma SD10 DSLR and almost as wide as my Panasonic m4/3.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    4,511
    Real Name
    wm c boyer

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    The first camera that I got serious with was my 22MP 1Ds3

  12. #12
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    14,154
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    I personally don't like smart phones as cameras. Not because they don't do a fairly decent job (when your situation matches the capabilities of the phone) but, because they are limited in their application. Most smartphones have a single focal length (granted, the iPhone 7S has a second digital focal length) and the smart phones do not afford you the control that a decent P&S will give you. I like shooting with longer focal lengths in many instances and feel totally limited by the format of the cell phone.

    However, most important for me, is the fact that I personally cannot operate my iPhone 6S+ in the bright sunlight because I simply cannot see the LCD viewfinder well enough. Piggy backing on that statement, I don't generally like using an LCD as my viewfinder and would never consider purchasing any camera (my underwater Fuji camera is the exception to that statement) that did not have an eye level viewfinder.

    Just because I don't like using my cell phone as my camera doesn't mean that other folks should not use their cell phones in that fashion, if the imagery they attain suits their purpose...

    Additionally, you really cannot equate the pixel density of a cell phone with its minuscule sensor with the Pixel density of even a crop format DSLR.

    But, I would guess that cell phones will eventually mean the death knell of P&S cameras.

    As far as experience equaling wisdom, that is true but, only if you learn from that experience. For some folks, a years worth of experience equates to one day of experience repeated 365 times
    Last edited by rpcrowe; 10th January 2017 at 05:13 PM.

  13. #13
    xpatUSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,760
    Real Name
    Ted

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    . . . Additionally, you really cannot equate the pixel density of a cell phone with its minuscule sensor with the Pixel density of even a crop format DSLR. . . .
    I didn't fully understand that, Richard. Which is better - more pixel density or less?

  14. #14
    kazuyar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    nottinghamshire
    Posts
    48
    Real Name
    KaZ

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    i think it depends on the dslr
    a pro dslr than no, but a budget dslr that has all the scene modes etc then yea id give him a few hours lesson and as long as he doesnt fiddle the settings he should be fine

  15. #15
    Tronhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,578
    Real Name
    Trev

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    As they always say the best camera is the one you are prepared to carry, I and DO on occasions that merit take out my cell phone to take a shot. That said I DO have an issue with how smartphones are often used, not so much in the technology itself. While a more specialized camera may have a lens capable of letting me stand off from my subject, smartphones are generally fairly wide angle units, so those using them want to get close to their subject. While I am carefully lining up my shot very often smartphone users will walk right in front of me and take their shots, very often not so much of the scenery but of themselves in front of it. I have literally waited 15-30 minutes for people to get out of the way when I was there first - yes, you may say I should challenge them, but I don't want a confrontation, just my shot. As I mentioned in a previous post I actually got hit on the head as someone behind me reached over my head, arm on each side, to take the photo they wanted with their cell phone.

    With regards to the sophistication of the camera... I got a brand new DSLR and took it on a trip. The shots were not as good as I had previously achieved with my earlier unit, and I put this down to not knowing my way around the camera well enough. To me getting great shots is mostly about getting the best out of what you know well. If your relative has not used the technology at all he would have a fairly steep learning curve in using a DSLR well.

    If he wanted to get a more sophisticated camera than his cell, why not get a good point and shoot or a bridge camera. He may also want to take video and smartphones are making huge strides in helping create great images for posting.

  16. #16
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    14,154
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by kazuyar View Post
    i think it depends on the dslr
    a pro dslr than no, but a budget dslr that has all the scene modes etc then yea id give him a few hours lesson and as long as he doesnt fiddle the settings he should be fine
    I agree... If a newbie took my Canon 5D Mark 2 or my 7D Mark 2 and I set the User selected mode #1 to ISO 400 in Programmed mode, single shot focus and auto exposure bracketing with burst mode. User Selected Mode #2 to ISO 400 AI Servo AF burst mode and programmed mode. User Selected Mode 3 at ISO 800, Single shot focus, exposure bracketing, burst mode....

    All you would need to do is to tell the Newbie that #1 was for still subjects, #2 was for moving subjects and #3 was for night shooting. The only other things necessary would be how to change the battery, the CF card and how to turn the camera off and on. I would just about guarantee that the vast percentage of shots would be focused and that there would be a significant number of correctly exposed shots.

    If the Newbie cannot remember those few tips, I wouldn't trust him or her to travel alone anywhere because he/she would not know how to catch the right plane, train or bus...

    BTW: Even my oldest DSLR in my possession (Canon 40D) has the three user selected modes. The User Selected Mode system is one reason that I have selected the cameras I use...
    Last edited by rpcrowe; 10th January 2017 at 09:46 PM.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    7,391
    Real Name
    Dan

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    ...For some folks, a years worth of experience equates to one day of experience repeated 365 times
    Yes, over the course of my career I ran into far more people than not who claimed 20 years of experience but actually had a year's worth of experience repeated 20 times. Chronological "experience" definitely does not necessarily equate to wisdom. True experience absolutely does.

  18. #18
    Shadowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    33,255
    Real Name
    John

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Two ways to look at the request, he's on his honeymoon so shouldn't have too much time for photography. He comes back with his cellphone imagery and suggests your big old DSLR couldn't have done better.

  19. #19
    Tronhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,578
    Real Name
    Trev

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    I must admit I am extremely unlikely to lend my gear to anyone else. While that may sound churlish, it came from experience when the times I did so it came back damaged or really dirty. I have always believed that if you look after your gear it will look after you, so I am pretty anal about keeping it maintained, protected and clean. By not lending at all I don't have to go into why I will lend to some people and not others.

    On a couple of occasions I have given stuff away rather than put either the borrower or the lender under the pressure of worrying about how it will be returned.
    Last edited by Tronhard; 10th January 2017 at 10:35 PM.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    439
    Real Name
    Yes

    Re: Experience begets Wisdom

    Surely there are other options. The phone is wide angle needing good light for quality images, but perfectly ok for images just looked at on a phone or tablet. BUT not so good for portraits, though many seem happy with their big nose results.

    There are also many good compacts about, easy to carry but capable of excellent results. For a travel holiday a much better option.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •