Question about 40D behavior

[rick55]

I finally got the next item on my must-have list, a second body. I got a used 40D from KEH, which arrived a few days ago. It was marked "bargain" condition, but appears solid. Everything seems to work fine, except two things I've noticed.

First, I fairly regularly get an error saying "Can't read CF card: format the CF card for this camera," or words to that effect. This has popped up 4 or 5 times now in about 8 hours of use. It doesn't always happen at power up, sometimes it's when the camera wakes up after sleeping (when I push the shutter button halfway). If I open the door and push the card, and power back up, it's fine. I'm a little bothered, though: I hate to think of missing a critical shot because of having to go through that.

Second, I've been doing some experimenting with burst mode, which is incredible. The high-speed burst is tremendous: one big plus compared to my 550D. But I almost always get one image where the jpeg is messed up. On the camera, it says "Can't replay." On the computer, it's a mucked-up jpeg. The raw, however, is fine.

Has anyone seen either of these problems? If it's an issue with the processor/ROM, I'm inclined to return it. If the CF card is mechanical, and the burst mode is "that's the way it is," I'll probably keep it.

No worthwhile images yet: I'm just playing and learning the controls. I like the control wheel, and love the sound of the shutter. One thing I dislike is that you have to push the "info" button over and over to get settings displayed on the LCD. Every time it goes to sleep or something changes, you have to hit it again. I love the top panel, but the big display on the back is easier to read.

Cheers,
Rick

[Donald]

Rick

All I can contribute is to say that I've never experienced these issues with my 40D. However, don't know enough to offer any suggestions as to why you are getting these.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Rick,

Looking at things logically, these issues are either caused by a faulty card, or faulty camera. I'd try another card and if you get the same results then I'd return the camera. If it goes fine with another card then I'd toss the original card.

[rick55]

Thanks, Donald, Colin. The card is a brand new SanDisk, so I think it's unlikely to be the card. Still, I'm sure that SanDisk doesn't have a 100.0% success rate, so the possibility is there. I have another card coming (I only paid for rapid delivery of one), so I'll be able to try it in a day or two.

Cheers,
Rick

[carregwen]

Rick

Stick the card in your PC and format it, or put it in your other camera and format it (make sure the card isn't damaged first though). Do you get the error with this card in your other camera? It's possible you have a dodgy card pin in the camera.

[Wirefox]

Hi Rick

I have a 40D and have not experienced any of these problems. So not much help there. Although it is probably not what you want to hear it does sound as if you need to send it back. Having said that try that new card first you may just be lucky.

One thing I dislike is that you have to push the "info" button over and over to get settings displayed on the LCD.

I must admit this reaction lasted about 10 seconds when I started using the 40D (from a 450D). Then I realised why the more expensive canons have that LCD on the top. I find it much easier to glance at that than read the main screen.

a second body

Ha, trust me. I will quickly become your 'First' body
Good luck with it anyhow

Steve

[rick55]

Rick

Stick the card in your PC and format it, or put it in your other camera and format it (make sure the card isn't damaged first though). Do you get the error with this card in your other camera? It's possible you have a dodgy card pin in the camera.

Hi, Rob;

It works fine in the computer, and mostly works fine in the camera. I just tried formatting in the computer, and it did the same thing: the first image of a burst was corrupted. I haven't played enough to see whether it also has the intermittent "can't read card," but I'm betting the two are related. I can't try it in the 500D, since it uses SD: one disadvantage of getting the 40D.

If, as you suggest, it's an iffy pin in the camera, I might be worth sending it in to Canon, especially since the corrupt image is quickly reproducible. Their repair prices are quite reasonable, and the camera was US$480, so it could still be better than trying again from KEH: their current cheapest 40D is US$600.

Cheers,
Rick

[rick55]

I have a 40D and have not experienced any of these problems. So not much help there. Although it is probably not what you want to hear it does sound as if you need to send it back. Having said that try that new card first you may just be lucky.

Thanks, Steve, I was afraid that was the case. As I say, I may try sending to Canon. Everything I've seen suggests they're very reasonable, and I haven't found any other problems with the camera. The physical connector or driver chip is a very likely point of failure, and replacing it would be a clean fix.

I must admit this reaction lasted about 10 seconds when I started using the 40D (from a 450D). Then I realised why the more expensive canons have that LCD on the top. I find it much easier to glance at that than read the main screen.

I hear what you say about using the top display instead of the big screen, but my eyes can barely read the top display in most conditions. Once I have the relative positions of all the settings memorized, it will probably matter less.

Ha, trust me. I will quickly become your 'First' body

That's really what I hoped. I forgot to mention that I also like having the PC connector. I like to do flash setups, and the screw-on adapter works poorly, at best, with my 500D. Having that connector is a big plus. Also, I can control whether live view shows the "simulated exposure" or just shows the scene. "Simulated exposure" does nothing but cost me steps, because I have to switch settings to focus, then change to my real exposure. This is much better, and I have no clue why they don't have this custom menu item in the 500D: it was stupid of them not to include it.

Cheers,
Rick

[carregwen]

Hi, Rob;

If, as you suggest, it's an iffy pin in the camera, I might be worth sending it in to Canon, especially since the corrupt image is quickly reproducible. Their repair prices are quite reasonable, and the camera was US$480, so it could still be better than trying again from KEH: their current cheapest 40D is US$600.

Cheers,
Rick

Hang on a sec. If you have just bought it from KEH then it's still under warranty for 60 days (according to their site). I'd send it back to them if it's not a faulty card. http://www.keh.com/About-Us.aspx

[rick55]

Hang on a sec. If you have just bought it from KEH then it's still under warranty for 60 days (according to their site). I'd send it back to them if it's not a faulty card. http://www.keh.com/About-Us.aspx

I thought about that, but the only other 40D that they have now is US$600+. If Canon can fix this one for $100, I'll be better off, since the next one from KEH might have a big scratch on the display or something. I can send it back and wait for another to come up at a good price, but that will be really hard, now that I have my hands on one.

Cheers,
Rick

[carregwen]

I thought about that, but the only other 40D that they have now is US$600+. If Canon can fix this one for $100, I'll be better off, since the next one from KEH might have a big scratch on the display or something. I can send it back and wait for another to come up at a good price, but that will be really hard, now that I have my hands on one.

Cheers,
Rick

I think you might find that a repair might cost quite a bit. A friend of mine had bent card pins last year on a 450D and it cost £140 to repair with Canon. That was in the UK. You could go back to KEH and ask if they will repair it as you want to keep this camera. Surely they will have to get it repaired anyway. I'd certainly call them to discuss this. Big companies like this aren't too worried about the cost to them of individual problems/repairs. They must get lots of them.

[rick55]

I think you might find that a repair might cost quite a bit. A friend of mine had bent card pins last year on a 450D and it cost £140 to repair with Canon. That was in the UK. You could go back to KEH and ask if they will repair it as you want to keep this camera. Surely they will have to get it repaired anyway. I'd certainly call them to discuss this. Big companies like this aren't too worried about the cost to them of individual problems/repairs. They must get lots of them.

Great idea, Rob! I'll give them a call tomorrow, see if they're willing to work with me.

Cheers,
Rick

[Colin Southern]

I'd still suggest trying another card - preferably at the shop with them if you can ...

PS: Having a CF card isn't a disadvantage of the 40D ... having an SD card was a disadvantage of the 500D

[rick55]

I'd still suggest trying another card - preferably at the shop with them if you can ...

PS: Having a CF card isn't a disadvantage of the 40D ... having an SD card was a disadvantage of the 500D

I'll definitely try another card, Colin. I have one coming, and I won't ignore the one chance in X,000 or whatever it is that the brand new CF is faulty: stranger things have happened.

Having a CF card is a disadvantage for me, since now I have to carry an extra SD, an extra CF, two different kinds of extra batteries, two different chargers. I do wish Canon would keep things a bit more common. I can understand the variation within the PowerShot cameras, since they're trying to squeeze things into the bare minimum form factor. But the EOS batteries are similar sizes, just incompatible. And I don't see why there's a special connector for the remote, except to make an extra $.

Oh, well, enough whine for the day.

Cheers,
Rick

[Colin Southern]

Hi Rick,

Perhaps you need a 1D series ... these take BOTH CF and SD cards, and at the same time none the less!

I suspect that Canon use the N3 connector on the pro-sumer / professional cameras because it's a lot more robust ... so rather than make more money on these cameras, it's possibly a case of trying to save money on the entry-level ones.

I agree it's not likely to be the card - but it does sound like a memory problem (be it the card or the camera's buffer) - at least it's easy to test. I've not had a faulty Sandisk, but I've certainly had faulty CF cards.

[rick55]

Perhaps you need a 1D series ... these take BOTH CF and SD cards, and at the same time none the less!

Someday, maybe, when I'm good enough to take advantage of it.

I suspect that Canon use the N3 connector on the pro-sumer / professional cameras because it's a lot more robust ... so rather than make more money on these cameras, it's possibly a case of trying to save money on the entry-level ones.

Maybe, although I've had plenty of audio and communication gear with 3.5mm or 2.5mm jacks that I used for years, plugging and unplugging the connector regularly, without failure. So I'm not sure the step up in robustness to the N3 connector is worthwhile. Does a pro photographer plug and unplug the remote control of a camera more often than I plugged and unplugged the hands-free of my mobile phone in the days before Bluetooth? I doubt it.

But I'll admit that the engineers or product managers in Canon may conceive the N3 connector as something they're giving the user. I've seen that in my own jobs often enough, where product managers or developers have a great idea for a dynamite feature, without really finding out whether it's a net benefit for users.

Cheers,
Rick

[Colin Southern]

Maybe, although I've had plenty of audio and communication gear with 3.5mm or 2.5mm jacks that I used for years, plugging and unplugging the connector regularly, without failure.

At the end of the day, I can't speak for Canon, so who really knows. From a personal perspective though, I can tell you that quite often my TC80-N3 timer/counter is left swinging from the socket whilst a long-exposure is underway ... or wrapped a couple of times around the camera, only to be stretched when I forget it's there and then pan the camera - I suspect that a 3.5mm sterio plug wouldn't last long in a professional environment.

[rick55]

I got a new (bigger) CF card, and the camera behaved even worse, so I called KEH. The guy I spoke to said all I can do is return it, which they'll pay for. They'll find out what repair will cost, and decide whether it's worth it. He said that if I put a note in the return about my interest in the camera, they'll get in touch if they do repair it. He also apologized for the problem, which was unnecessary: since it was worse with a larger card, I can easily believe that they gave it a quick test with a 1GB card and it seemed fine.

This was a good experience: I was within the 14-day "no questions asked" return window, but a lot of places promise no questions, then give you a hard time. I'll gladly do business with them in the future.

Cheers,
Rick

[Donald]

This was a good experience: I was within the 14-day "no questions asked" return window, but a lot of places promise no questions, then give you a hard time. I'll gladly do business with them in the future.

Sorry to hear that the problems didn't get resolved. Hope this doesn't put you off the idea of a 40D. Good to also hear that there are honest dealers who stick by their commitments. Your last comment is the testament to good service - and they should know that you've told the rest of us about it.

[rick55]

Sorry to hear that the problems didn't get resolved. Hope this doesn't put you off the idea of a 40D.

I definitely want a 40D. I'm just torn now whether to wait and see if they get this one repaired, or up the ante and go for one of the ones that shows better condition on the KEH site. It's hard to hold back, now that I've used one for a bit. As I said, my one minor complaint is that the settings go away on the big screen - other than that, I much prefer the feel and behavior, and I only had days to get used to it.

I didn't do any A/B testing, but just looking at images, it appeared that noise was similar between 500D and 40D at ISO 100, but higher in the 500D at ISO 400. I mostly avoid shooting ISO 400 with the 500D, and almost never shoot 800, because then I have to trade off noise reduction and detail. I don't think that will be so with the 40D.

Good to also hear that there are honest dealers who stick by their commitments. Your last comment is the testament to good service - and they should know that you've told the rest of us about it.

I'll add a note: it's a good idea. I don't like to threaten ("I'm going to say something nasty on a forum"), but there's no harm in mentioning that I said something nice.

Cheers,
Rick