Shooting dancers in stage light or use flash? Or mix?

[zen]

Without seeing a shot with a bit of theater included, it's hard to answer your question. However, I DO like the black background a lot. It puts all your focus on the dancer, and gives her something of a mystical, floating quality.

zen

[Cantab]

Without seeing a shot with a bit of theater included, it's hard to answer your question. However, I DO like the black background a lot. It puts all your focus on the dancer, and gives her something of a mystical, floating quality.

zen

Zen, the second and third shots have subtle folds in the theatre curtain visible on my monitor.

I'm tempted to vote for the completely black background, partly because the bits of the theatre visible are so hard to see that they don't add anything to the image.

[zen]

Aha! Changed monitor settings, and now I see. Tough choice. The curtain gives a sense of space and anchors the dancer, while the black gives the mystical 'presence' to the dancer, and focuses entirely on her. I like both, and can see either version being used successfully. Perhaps it comes down to how and by whom the image will be used in its final final form and pure personal choice. I still like the black, though.

Zen

[William W]

You have made very good progress.

Be assured that with progress, if one desires to progress further, then any C&C should be more rigorous and more detailed: accordingly here a few comments for your consideration.

(I address Image #1 only, there is a comment about Image #2 later).

*

. . . we just used flashes. Now i have a little dilemma in editing. I am not sure what works best. . .I can black everything out, or i can keep a little of the scene and the scene blanket in the background. The scene anchor them a little and the other picture is more clean. What do people think?

And

I think for leaping captures either works as well. The black backgrounds gives it a weightless, magical feel, providing an anchor would give it more dimension and realism. Nice efforts.

I think that John hit the nail on the head and I concur 100% with John’s three points:
> either will work
> black provides a weightless (and also more a abstract) Portrait
> curtain and floor provide depth to the image and a placement for the portrait within a scene

I think that the choice is yours and your (and other people’s) opinion of which is “best” is largely dependent upon what outcome you (or they) prefer want for the final image.

My opinion is if it were mine I would create depth in the image by enhancing the Curtain as a Backdrop to the Dancer

***

If you choose to include the curtain and the floor, then I think you need to enhance the detail in the curtain more than appears is the sample you provided and also I suggest that you consider these additional points:

1a. The camera position to the curtain is skewed rendering the curtain’s base not straight. It is out by about 1.5°.

1b. This might not concern you, but in the main, if there is a very small skew it is more annoying and distracting to a critical Viewer’s Eye, for example: a Dance Director; or Stage Producer.

1c. If the curtain is used as a backdrop, then that skewed angle (much like if the horizon is skewed in a landscape photograph), will distract those with a critical Viewer’s Eye.

2. Rectifying (by rotation) the skew of the base of the curtain will then introduce a skew on the vertical of the curtain’s folds, which will then in turn distract those with a critical Viewer’s Eye.

*

Key Point to Note

If you agree that these are potential issues to your Final Product, then, the easiest solution is to better plan the Camera Viewpoint in relation to the Stage and Backdrop; and then once the camera is in place, you need to direct and control the position of the Dancer and the jump.

Alternatively, if the Photographer cannot control the position of the Jump, then s/he must ensure that the Dancer follows the same choreography for each Jump; or the Photographer must know the choreography and accordingly set the Camera Viewpoint to suit the position of the Jump and also position of the Stage and Backdrop.

*

As I would choose to use the Curtain as a Backdrop for image #1, please see these two rough edits below, as an illustration of the points above and as an indication of where I might begin to move the development of this particular image n Post Production:

Here is a rough edit:

> building depth into the scene by enhancing the detail and texture in the curtain:

> corrects the skewed base of the curtain

> note: that the folds in the curtain are now skewed

> note: the detail of the shadow of the flash

> note: the DETAIL of dancer’s Right Leg - particularly THIGH and CALF



*

Here is a rough edit to address the following:

> skewed base of the curtain

> skewed folds of the curtain

> flash shadow on the curtain

> folds of skin under the dancer’s right thigh muscle

> development of the dancer’s right calf muscle

> (more) drama of the lighting



***

Other points:

> Consider addressing the Dancer’s clothing – the short white over-garment does not enhance the line of the dancer during the Jump and it adds “weight” and “girth” to the dancer in mid air. The use of this garment detracts from: grace, line, power; and beauty of the Jump.

This is one of the main reasons why I would use the Backdrop of the Curtain in this image to create depth to the scene, because the dancer, supposedly in mid air and weightless, appears way too heavy in those garments if she is simply rendered on a black-black background.

> I concur with Manfred’s analysis of the second image. The second leg out of view creates a very awkward image. Frankly, as a critical C&C which is to be representative of the level at which you have now developed your skills: the camera simply was definitely in the wrong position for that Jump, and not just by a little bit.

WW

[teigas]

Zen, the second and third shots have subtle folds in the theatre curtain visible on my monitor.

I'm tempted to vote for the completely black background, partly because the bits of the theatre visible are so hard to see that they don't add anything to the image.

Thank you, for the feedback. Perhaps its my screen that is to bright. Its calibrated to 120 luminance and 6500 kelvin. I see the stage just fine.

[teigas]

Aha! Changed monitor settings, and now I see. Tough choice. The curtain gives a sense of space and anchors the dancer, while the black gives the mystical 'presence' to the dancer, and focuses entirely on her. I like both, and can see either version being used successfully. Perhaps it comes down to how and by whom the image will be used in its final final form and pure personal choice. I still like the black, though.

Thanks for the great feedback.
Zen

[teigas]

You have made very good progress.

Be assured that with progress, if one desires to progress further, then any C&C should be more rigorous and more detailed: accordingly here a few comments for your consideration.

(I address Image #1 only, there is a comment about Image #2 later).

*



And



I think that John hit the nail on the head and I concur 100% with John’s three points:
> either will work
> black provides a weightless (and also more a abstract) Portrait
> curtain and floor provide depth to the image and a placement for the portrait within a scene

I think that the choice is yours and your (and other people’s) opinion of which is “best” is largely dependent upon what outcome you (or they) prefer want for the final image.

My opinion is if it were mine I would create depth in the image by enhancing the Curtain as a Backdrop to the Dancer

***

If you choose to include the curtain and the floor, then I think you need to enhance the detail in the curtain more than appears is the sample you provided and also I suggest that you consider these additional points:

1a. The camera position to the curtain is skewed rendering the curtain’s base not straight. It is out by about 1.5°.

1b. This might not concern you, but in the main, if there is a very small skew it is more annoying and distracting to a critical Viewer’s Eye, for example: a Dance Director; or Stage Producer.

1c. If the curtain is used as a backdrop, then that skewed angle (much like if the horizon is skewed in a landscape photograph), will distract those with a critical Viewer’s Eye.

2. Rectifying (by rotation) the skew of the base of the curtain will then introduce a skew on the vertical of the curtain’s folds, which will then in turn distract those with a critical Viewer’s Eye.

*

Key Point to Note

If you agree that these are potential issues to your Final Product, then, the easiest solution is to better plan the Camera Viewpoint in relation to the Stage and Backdrop; and then once the camera is in place, you need to direct and control the position of the Dancer and the jump.

Alternatively, if the Photographer cannot control the position of the Jump, then s/he must ensure that the Dancer follows the same choreography for each Jump; or the Photographer must know the choreography and accordingly set the Camera Viewpoint to suit the position of the Jump and also position of the Stage and Backdrop.

*

As I would choose to use the Curtain as a Backdrop for image #1, please see these two rough edits below, as an illustration of the points above and as an indication of where I might begin to move the development of this particular image n Post Production:

Here is a rough edit:

> building depth into the scene by enhancing the detail and texture in the curtain:

> corrects the skewed base of the curtain

> note: that the folds in the curtain are now skewed

> note: the detail of the shadow of the flash

> note: the DETAIL of dancer’s Right Leg - particularly THIGH and CALF



*

Here is a rough edit to address the following:

> skewed base of the curtain

> skewed folds of the curtain

> flash shadow on the curtain

> folds of skin under the dancer’s right thigh muscle

> development of the dancer’s right calf muscle

> (more) drama of the lighting



***

Other points:

> Consider addressing the Dancer’s clothing – the short white over-garment does not enhance the line of the dancer during the Jump and it adds “weight” and “girth” to the dancer in mid air. The use of this garment detracts from: grace, line, power; and beauty of the Jump.

This is one of the main reasons why I would use the Backdrop of the Curtain in this image to create depth to the scene, because the dancer, supposedly in mid air and weightless, appears way too heavy in those garments if she is simply rendered on a black-black background.

> I concur with Manfred’s analysis of the second image. The second leg out of view creates a very awkward image. Frankly, as a critical C&C which is to be representative of the level at which you have now developed your skills: the camera simply was definitely in the wrong position for that Jump, and not just by a little bit.

WW

Thank you for the great feedback. Let me just start off by saying this is somthing I shot to learn and to experiment, and I like to try new things and experiment with flash. I have not shot so many dancers before, just three times before. One for a local news paper and it was more modern not any jumps etc. A another one outdoors a few friends that made a dance movie, and I was allowed to shoot also. The last time was with second curtain flash. As I said its just to learn, and it fasinates me what they can do even if they are local and from 16 - 19 years old. I was asked by their teacher since i asked in the fall if they where intrested in me shooting them for fun and to experiment. So last week i was allowed to do it. I think my ultimate gold is some dance shots outdoors in golden hour, they have agreeded to join me in august, when the sun set later than now 23.00 - 24.00 in the summer in Norway.

When that has been said, i really really like this forum because i get goood and i mean really good feedback. I see that i must learn to slow down and think more, but not always so easy when you only got one hour and want to come home with somthing. I really see the point with the skew in the curtain, and if the stage would be kept i would straighten the horizon line in the bottom just like i would in a landscape.. I think it would be hard to nailed the angels without a trpod, because i followed the dancer handhendl with my camera when i took this shoots and tried to press the shutter at the right moment. But i deffenitly see you point about the skew.

What did you use to correct the skew in the curtains? And remove the shadow? The horizon i get that would be straight tool.

I understand what you mean about the clothes aswell, but I did not have any controll, that was the clothes they showed up in. But deffently will think about that next time.

I think i will make a few rough edits to see what i think works best black or stage in the picture. The pictures purpose was to experiment, and I said the dancers could get 5 edited shots each (digital) and i might put them on my blogg. I have some points to think about now. I did not see thing about the leg before i got home and you pointed it out, so at least i Now next time i will have to change positions for that shot.

[pnodrog]

I understand I will think about it next time i try to do similar stuff. But what do you prefear if you look at total black or keep some of the theather?

If the backdrops were more softly patterned I would prefer the lower contrast photographs with the backdrops slightly visible. However the vertical strips(folds) are very distracting and need to be either totally out of focus or eliminated by making a very dark background (not necessarily totally black).

[teigas]

If the backdrops were more softly patterned I would prefer the lower contrast photographs with the backdrops slightly visible. However the vertical strips(folds) are very distracting and need to be either totally out of focus or eliminated by making a very dark background (not necessarily totally black).

Thank you for your feedback. Really apriciate it.

[William W]

. . . I think my ultimate gold is some dance shots outdoors in golden hour . . .

You will need to consider that having a fast enough SHUTTER SPEED will be the major defining factor as to whether there will SUBJECT MOVEMENT BLUR.

*

. . . i really really like this forum because i get goood and i mean really good feedback.

That is very good.

I agree CiC has an extremely high hit rate concerning the advice and expertise members are willing to provide pro bono.

Much of that goes to the professionalism and maturity the Moderators apply to their Role: and as a result the Membership generally moderates itself and is willing to give of themselves so freely.

Also conversations often wander about around the main topic with an aim to discuss “issues” generally: that was the predicate of the original “Forum” - this is a great strength of CiC.

*

. . . I see that i must learn to slow down and think more, but not always so easy when you only got one hour and want to come home with somthing.

Consider that you are looking at this issue the wrong way about. “Thinking more” is not about slowing down and thinking more when you are at the shoot.

Even though you consider these “practice shoots” you will travel a very long way, just spinning your wheels and without much improvement if you do not address each of these shoots as the last chance that you ever have, to get the image.

“Thinking more” is about sitting down before the shoot and PLANNING and then getting out and PRACTICING what you are going to execute at the shoot.

A Pianist doesn’t “slow down and think more” at the recital. S/He puts in hours of practice to get the tempo up to the correct speed and with no mistakes, so the recital is (near to) perfect.

*

. . . I really see the point with the skew in the curtain, and if the stage would be kept i would straighten the horizon line in the bottom just like i would in a landscape.. I think it would be hard to nailed the angels without a trpod, because i followed the dancer handhend with my camera when i took this shoots and tried to press the shutter at the right moment.

Don’t even consider using a tripod for this type of shoot. You need to be mobile and to be mobile quickly.

Please refer to and reread CAREFULLY the paragraph under the sub heading: ”Key Point to Note” in Post #24. I will re-write it here in a different way to emphasize this critical point –

The problem is because the Curtain has a bottom edge which is horizontal and creases which are vertical – if these strong lines are not horizontal and vertical then the image will cause annoyance to a critical eye. If it were a stage set with props and other dancers this would not be so much of a problem, if a problem at all.

Because you have the curtain as the backdrop, you should plan your CAMERA VIEWPOINT so that the CAMERA captures the JUMP with the LENS’S AXIS at RIGHT ANGLES to the CURTAIN, in ALL ASPECTS.

In that camera position it DOESN’T MATTER if the camera is rotated (i.e. not parallel to the floor), because that can be easily fixed by rotating the image and simply rotating the image will fix BOTH the horizontal and the vertical skew in the image.

So, to achieve all the above the Photographer either needs to know where the Jump will take place and position themself appropriately – OR - the Photographer needs to dictate where Jump will take place.

*

What did you use to correct the skew in the curtains? And remove the shadow?

In Photoshop and in this order:

> Rotate 1.5° corrects the horizontal. (which puts the vertical at skew)

> Vertical Perspective to address ONLY the CAMERA LEFT CURTAIN Vertical Skew (from memory about -7 or -8)

> Then there appears a little barrel distortion and corrected that for ONLY the CAMERA LEFT CURTAIN vertical curtain (I think was about +2)

> Cloned and rebuilt the curtain at CAMERA RIGHT to correct skewed verticals and remove the Flash Shadow

NOTE the rationale used to address this type of issue: the biggest and best “clean area” of backdrop curtain is at CAMERA LEFT, so the aim is to get that curtain area correct Vertically and Horizontally with MINIMAL DISTORTION TO THE SUBJECT, then once half the curtain is correct, the other half is easy to rebuild.

NOTE EVEN MORE: But the key point is still to understand all this could have been avoided if the camera were in the correct position in the first instance.

A critical point about any "sports" photography (that is any photography where the Subject is moving around) is to get to the CAMERA to RIGHT SPOT before you release the shutter.

This criterion arguably should be prioritized above all else.

If you have the shot under/overexposed a bit then you can often cut or boost in post; if the framing is not that perfect then you can often crop in post; if you slightly got the focus wrong then you can often fiddle with focus magic or sharpening etc, in post; if you got the wrong focal length then you can crop to get a new framing; if the DoF is not perfect - often that's not the end of the world, and you can often use the blur tool to provide more DoF . . . but if the camera is not in the right position it is usually always very difficult or impossible to retrieve the image and make it good.

*

. . . I understand what you mean about the clothes aswell, but I did not have any controll, that was the clothes they showed up in. But deffently will think about that next time.

Again, I think that you are approaching this the wrong way about. The dancers turned up in those clothes, not because you didn’t have any control, but because you didn’t exercise the control that you might have . . . next time why not meet with them before hand or telephone them and explain why the clothes that they wear can make a great difference . . .

This photography stuff comprises a lot more than just turning up and pressing the shutter button, maybe think about the meaning of the sign we had above the entrance to our St. Ives Studio:

“It takes a split second to take a photograph . . .
It may take minutes, hours, days, weeks or even years to MAKE a photograph.”

WW

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Teigas,

Could you do me a favour please?
Could you click Settings (right at the top),
then Edit Profile (on left)
and put your first name (Teigas?) in the Real Name field
and where you are (Norway?) in the Location field,
then click the Save Changes button below and to right,
this helps everyone give you more personal and relevant answers in future - thanks in advance.

I think I might usefully be able to expand a little on Bill's point regarding the shooting position and posture in order to "get the angles right".

I don't know if this is practical, but consider temporarily* placing a bit of tape as a marker on the floor where the dancer(s) should aim for as the highest point of the jump, further; you may want to place a similar marker for yourself, so you always shoot from a known place that is at 90 degrees to the curtain when framed to capture the point of exposure.

* you must remove it before you leave!

When you are about to shoot; stand on your mark and face the curtain, frame up the shot; zoom-wise and perhaps even pre-focus on the dancer's mark (then disable AF), be sure to be standing comfortably with feet apart facing the mark and curtain squarely. As the dancer approaches (e.g. from the right in your shots above), you twist your upper body only (don't move your feet) to see them, get them in frame, pan to follow them across the stage floor, as your body becomes straight, they should be in the air and you click the shutter, keep twisting past 'straight' to follow them as they land (this is just good panning technique).

The tape markers do not need to be a bold colour (you'll want to remove it in PP), just visible to you and dancer and discussed with them in advance. The purpose of the markers is just to define points on an otherwise featureless floor, so you and they know where they are each time. If the floor were a gym with netball court markings for example, placing tape may not even be necessary, since you could agree in advance with the dancer that a certain intersection of court lines was their 'mark'.

This is just re-iterating Bill's point that with a little forethought and planning, you can 'take control' of certain things to yield far more predictable results, both for you and the dancers, who may appreciate the consistency of knowing where they need to be each time, rather than it be random.

Good luck, Dave

[teigas]

You will need to consider that having a fast enough SHUTTER SPEED will be the major defining factor as to whether there will SUBJECT MOVEMENT BLUR.

*



That is very good.

I agree CiC has an extremely high hit rate concerning the advice and expertise members are willing to provide pro bono.

Much of that goes to the professionalism and maturity the Moderators apply to their Role: and as a result the Membership generally moderates itself and is willing to give of themselves so freely.

Also conversations often wander about around the main topic with an aim to discuss “issues” generally: that was the predicate of the original “Forum” - this is a great strength of CiC.

*



Consider that you are looking at this issue the wrong way about. “Thinking more” is not about slowing down and thinking more when you are at the shoot.

Even though you consider these “practice shoots” you will travel a very long way, just spinning your wheels and without much improvement if you do not address each of these shoots as the last chance that you ever have, to get the image.

“Thinking more” is about sitting down before the shoot and PLANNING and then getting out and PRACTICING what you are going to execute at the shoot.

A Pianist doesn’t “slow down and think more” at the recital. S/He puts in hours of practice to get the tempo up to the correct speed and with no mistakes, so the recital is (near to) perfect.

*



Don’t even consider using a tripod for this type of shoot. You need to be mobile and to be mobile quickly.

Please refer to and reread CAREFULLY the paragraph under the sub heading: ”Key Point to Note” in Post #24. I will re-write it here in a different way to emphasize this critical point –

The problem is because the Curtain has a bottom edge which is horizontal and creases which are vertical – if these strong lines are not horizontal and vertical then the image will cause annoyance to a critical eye. If it were a stage set with props and other dancers this would not be so much of a problem, if a problem at all.

Because you have the curtain as the backdrop, you should plan your CAMERA VIEWPOINT so that the CAMERA captures the JUMP with the LENS’S AXIS at RIGHT ANGLES to the CURTAIN, in ALL ASPECTS.

In that camera position it DOESN’T MATTER if the camera is rotated (i.e. not parallel to the floor), because that can be easily fixed by rotating the image and simply rotating the image will fix BOTH the horizontal and the vertical skew in the image.

So, to achieve all the above the Photographer either needs to know where the Jump will take place and position themself appropriately – OR - the Photographer needs to dictate where Jump will take place.

*



In Photoshop and in this order:

> Rotate 1.5° corrects the horizontal. (which puts the vertical at skew)

> Vertical Perspective to address ONLY the CAMERA LEFT CURTAIN Vertical Skew (from memory about -7 or -8)

> Then there appears a little barrel distortion and corrected that for ONLY the CAMERA LEFT CURTAIN vertical curtain (I think was about +2)

> Cloned and rebuilt the curtain at CAMERA RIGHT to correct skewed verticals and remove the Flash Shadow

NOTE the rationale used to address this type of issue: the biggest and best “clean area” of backdrop curtain is at CAMERA LEFT, so the aim is to get that curtain area correct Vertically and Horizontally with MINIMAL DISTORTION TO THE SUBJECT, then once half the curtain is correct, the other half is easy to rebuild.

NOTE EVEN MORE: But the key point is still to understand all this could have been avoided if the camera were in the correct position in the first instance.

A critical point about any "sports" photography (that is any photography where the Subject is moving around) is to get to the CAMERA to RIGHT SPOT before you release the shutter.

This criterion arguably should be prioritized above all else.

If you have the shot under/overexposed a bit then you can often cut or boost in post; if the framing is not that perfect then you can often crop in post; if you slightly got the focus wrong then you can often fiddle with focus magic or sharpening etc, in post; if you got the wrong focal length then you can crop to get a new framing; if the DoF is not perfect - often that's not the end of the world, and you can often use the blur tool to provide more DoF . . . but if the camera is not in the right position it is usually always very difficult or impossible to retrieve the image and make it good.

*



Again, I think that you are approaching this the wrong way about. The dancers turned up in those clothes, not because you didn’t have any control, but because you didn’t exercise the control that you might have . . . next time why not meet with them before hand or telephone them and explain why the clothes that they wear can make a great difference . . .

This photography stuff comprises a lot more than just turning up and pressing the shutter button, maybe think about the meaning of the sign we had above the entrance to our St. Ives Studio:

“It takes a split second to take a photograph . . .
It may take minutes, hours, days, weeks or even years to MAKE a photograph.”

WW

Thank you for all the feedback again.

Regarinding the outdoor shot, i think i will bring a flash then to, and i will pratice with a friend and use time to scout a good location. Wich i usually do when I take milky way shots or other landscape shots..

I also get all the points with the clothes, and test shooting before etc. And i really think about my poistion next time. I should have tought about the clothes before hand, but now i learned that lesson. Regaringd pratice time, i did now the concepts, and asked a little her in advance and i spent some time reading up on t1 and t5 times and the first time i tried in a gym with only my speedlights to test if its was even posible and used my goddaugther to see if i could freeze her, also testet with water and soda to see that i under stood the t1 and duration concept. This session came a little sneaky upon me just under a week before they asked if i wanted to take pictures when they praticed. I said yes, but i was painting my house, so really did not have so much time to test and prepear this time.. I asked for more time to experiment before hand , but they did not have the time. But we learn from mistakes, and can only try to correct them next time.

The dancers who will get a few edited pictures in return wanted the background completly blackened out and i let them choose the pictures they liked best, so I will go true after and see if we had different opinions.. Again thank you for the feedback.. Her are two edited pictures, it takes some time to try to make the black around them perfect with refine edge and layer masks. Not sure if there is any quicker way. Also have to double check the egdes, that way it had been easier not blackened all out.. But since they wanted it, I will try to make it the best I can. Her are two i edited this afternoon.





I see your point with the clothes beeing more tight like the shirt her. And the shorts sort of grows a little in to the background.

[teigas]

Hi Teigas,

Could you do me a favour please?
Could you click Settings (right at the top),
then Edit Profile (on left)
and put your first name (Teigas?) in the Real Name field
and where you are (Norway?) in the Location field,
then click the Save Changes button below and to right,
this helps everyone give you more personal and relevant answers in future - thanks in advance.

I think I might usefully be able to expand a little on Bill's point regarding the shooting position and posture in order to "get the angles right".

I don't know if this is practical, but consider temporarily* placing a bit of tape as a marker on the floor where the dancer(s) should aim for as the highest point of the jump, further; you may want to place a similar marker for yourself, so you always shoot from a known place that is at 90 degrees to the curtain when framed to capture the point of exposure.

* you must remove it before you leave!

When you are about to shoot; stand on your mark and face the curtain, frame up the shot; zoom-wise and perhaps even pre-focus on the dancer's mark (then disable AF), be sure to be standing comfortably with feet apart facing the mark and curtain squarely. As the dancer approaches (e.g. from the right in your shots above), you twist your upper body only (don't move your feet) to see them, get them in frame, pan to follow them across the stage floor, as your body becomes straight, they should be in the air and you click the shutter, keep twisting past 'straight' to follow them as they land (this is just good panning technique).

The tape markers do not need to be a bold colour (you'll want to remove it in PP), just visible to you and dancer and discussed with them in advance. The purpose of the markers is just to define points on an otherwise featureless floor, so you and they know where they are each time. If the floor were a gym with netball court markings for example, placing tape may not even be necessary, since you could agree in advance with the dancer that a certain intersection of court lines was their 'mark'.

This is just re-iterating Bill's point that with a little forethought and planning, you can 'take control' of certain things to yield far more predictable results, both for you and the dancers, who may appreciate the consistency of knowing where they need to be each time, rather than it be random.

Good luck, Dave

Thank you, i tried to mostly stand in the same place, and i set the focus each time on them when they started and did not realese before i triggered the shutter. I started following them when they started running, and i tried to hit the shutter at the right time. Not sure if i panned so much afterwards.. But i thinks like you pointed out easier to start to follow them than just wait and see when they hit the frame.. Learned to follow the object when i tried to shoot eageles a while back, if I did not follow them they where easy to loose in the sky before they came down for fish. Thank you for the advice, will try the tape next time, and pan afterwards.. Tought it was to risky to set the focus and lock its since i moved around a little when adjusting lights and moving them a little etc.. But if i had the point to return to, not sure if the danceres would be in the same distance from all the time either.

[Cantab]

Lars (Teigas), I've enjoyed reading the various posts on this thread as well as looking at the pictures themselves. I hope you'll post photos from your next session.

[William W]

. . . consider temporarily* placing a bit of tape as a marker on the floor where the dancer(s) should aim for as the highest point of the jump, further; you may want to place a similar marker for yourself, so you always shoot from a known place that is at 90 degrees to the curtain when framed to capture the point of exposure. . .

Top idea!

Stage Productions and TV Sound Stages use this type of marking system all the time.

***

. . . I think my ultimate gold is some dance shots outdoors in golden hour

You will need to consider that having a fast enough SHUTTER SPEED will be the major defining factor as to whether there will SUBJECT MOVEMENT BLUR.

. . . Regarinding the outdoor shot, i think i will bring a flash then to, and i will pratice with a friend and use time to scout a good location.

Doesn’t matter that you will be using Flash: if the Sunlight is the Dominant Light or close to the Dominate Light, then the SHUTTER SPEED will determine whether there is Movement Blur, or not.

***

The dancers who will get a few edited pictures in return wanted the background completly blackened out and i let them choose the pictures they liked best . . . Her are two edited pictures . . .

Very nice work! Congratulations! Especially the first one.

WW

[teigas]

Lars (Teigas), I've enjoyed reading the various posts on this thread as well as looking at the pictures themselves. I hope you'll post photos from your next session.

Thank you. I posted some from this session if you loook a few post up when i got back to William W.
Next time i try will be after the summer in some sunset or after the sun set I think

[teigas]

Top idea!

Stage Productions and TV Sound Stages use this type of marking system all the time.

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Doesn’t matter that you will be using Flash: if the Sunlight is the Dominant Light or close to the Dominate Light, then the SHUTTER SPEED will determine whether there is Movement Blur, or not.

***



Very nice work! Congratulations! Especially the first one.

WW

Thank you for the feedback on the pictures, i will move on with the rest of them in the same style..

Regarding the sun you are most certain correct, so i think i will have to wait just before or right after it sets, and see what i can manage to do, since i cant use the einstein for high speed sync, have not checked that, but will look in to it.. Will do some tests when i move my arms and use some other stuff that moves a botlle atttached to a stick or somthing really fast and see what could be possible before I move forward with the dancers.

[William W]

. . . Regarding the sun you are most certain correct, so i think i will have to wait just before or right after it sets, and see what i can manage to do, since i cant use the einstein for high speed sync, have not checked that, but will look in to it.. Will do some tests when i move my arms and use some other stuff that moves a botlle atttached to a stick or somthing really fast and see what could be possible before I move forward with the dancers.

There will be less direct effect of the sun on the Subjects just at and after sunset, and it can provide a beautiful background to your images, but during that period - the intensity of the Sun changes rapidly.

So you will have a very limited window of shooting time and during that window you will probably have to make exposure adjustments between sets of shots for the AMBIENT LIGHT.

Good idea to do a practice drill.

I also suggest that you Review the comments about High Speed Sync here (Post #8)

WW