I'm a CLASSIC Example!

[PhotosInParadise]

Of a newbie who thought they might improve their photos by upgrading their equipment! I had a Canon T5i with a kit lens 18-55. I took some photos of my light cream colored dog that 'I thought' were good. My black dog came out a black blob. SI read and read and read and watched videos to try to improve my skills. I also got a software editing program, Affinity Photo (I read that it would work with my Mac better than anything Adobe) and learned to shoot Raw. I began to get fairly acceptable, to me, inside portraits with an external flash. Outside photos still are showing a black blob for the dog.

Fast forward, with lots of photos, lots of different camera settings of the exposure triangle with no improvement to photos of this black dog. All this time my SIL drools over my T5i and cant afford one and has my lovely grandchildren playing sports to photo. So, ok I use that as an excuse to upgrade my camera to a Canon 70D with a (too expensive) 70-200 f/2.8L lens hoping this will make a difference. More reading to learn this camera amd more practice. All I have accomplished is that I made my daughter and SIL very happy with a nice camera, and that's great!

Here is a photo I took yesterday. Taken with the 70-200.@ f/8, 1/1000, ISO 400 Manual Mode. I use shutter speed that fast because the little black blob is usually running 90-0 and that speed does do very well to stop his action. Please advise if there is anything I can do to capture this little black blob with more detail showing!

[dem]

I think you have already got most of the answers in your post:

1) get the lighting right
2) shoot raw
3) expose to the right
4) use curve adjustment to bring out the details in shadows

Once all four components line up sort to speak, hopefully you'll get the results you are looking for.

[NorthernFocus]

Welcome to CiC, Sandra. Your photo isn't showing in the post but this is a common problem and I can guess what it looks like. You indicate that you are shooting in manual mode but are you setting ss and f-stop based on what the camera meter is telling you? And do you have the meter set to matrix metering(or whatever Canon calls it)? If so than you are under exposing the black dog because the meter is reading things that are much lighter in color therefore under-exposing the black subject. Start by setting your camera to +1 exposure value. IOW per above if the meter is telling you at ISO400 to set 1/1000, f8, then try 1/500.

Your camera should have an exposure compensation(EC) setting(or whatever Canon calls it). Generally speaking when shooting black/dark subjects you should set EC to +1(increase exposure) and for white/light subjects EC set to -1(decrease exposure). If shooting in manual mode the EC setting adjusts the meter output that you are looking at. If shooting in A,S, or any other auto mode, the EC setting will adjust the camera settings.

Hopefully this will get you started and point you down a path of learning/improvement.

[PhotosInParadise]

Not sure why my photo did not show up, guess cause I am new to the forum. I will try a photo again.

[xpatUSA]

Welcome to CiC, Sandra. Your photo isn't showing in the post but this is a common problem and I can guess what it looks like. You indicate that you are shooting in manual mode but are you setting ss and f-stop based on what the camera meter is telling you? And do you have the meter set to matrix metering(or whatever Canon calls it)? If so than you are under exposing the black dog because the meter is reading things that are much lighter in color therefore under-exposing the black subject. Start by setting your camera to +1 exposure value. IOW per above if the meter is telling you at ISO400 to set 1/1000, f8, then try 1/500.

Your camera should have an exposure compensation(EC) setting(or whatever Canon calls it). Generally speaking when shooting black/dark subjects you should set EC to +1(increase exposure) and for white/light subjects EC set to -1(decrease exposure). If shooting in manual mode the EC setting adjusts the meter output that you are looking at. If shooting in A,S, or any other auto mode, the EC setting will adjust the camera settings.

Hopefully this will get you started and point you down a path of learning/improvement.

Good advice.

Sandy, welcome!

A pity the animal won't stay still because another trick is to get close so it fills the screen and meter for that; then step back to frame and take the shot.

I use spot metering all the time for what that's worth. I point the camera at the area of interest , see what the metering says then adjust the exposure based on what else is in the scene. For example: Nice blue sky which would be a shame if it turns white after raw conversion, so dial down the exposure knowing full well that area of interest will require to be upped in post. Or some shadow detail that it would be nice to include - dial up the exposure and lower the area of interest in post. Too much information really - this is almost Exposure 101 - and not saying my way is better than any other.

Have you tried "bracketing" shots i.e. taken several at different exposures and picked out the best? But, far more important would be to figure out WHY it was the best. Yep, more reading

[rpcrowe]

Black dogs and all white dogs propose problems in exposure... Here's some pointers, all or some of which might help you. Some of these have been mentioned above but, forgive me for the repeats...

1. Try to fill the frame with the black dog as much as possible because including an area of lighter background will fool the camera meter into trying to balance the whole scene. Even when you get the exposure for the dog right-on, if the surrounding area is over-exposed, the image will not look good - unless only a smidgen of the surrounding area is captured.

2. Use the "spot-metering" or the "partial-metering" mode (Canon terminology - other brands might use different terms) so that the majority of the exposure is on the black dog. Here is a very decent explanation of the various metering modes.



You can find this explanation at http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/20...n-to-use-them/

You may find in this case that you need to reduce your exposure a half or full stop because the meter will try to give you a gray dog...

3. Use fill flash... I prefer bouncing my fill flash onto a diffuser-reflector like the Demb Flash Diffuser Pro (www.dembflashproducts.com) or a Flashbender-Type reflector. The OEM Flashbender is quite expensive but there are Chinese knock-offs at very reasonable prices which should do the trick. Here is an example... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Foldable-Spe...3D361494083355

The aim of using this fill flash is not to actually light the black dog but rather to effect highlights on the coat and in the eyes. I will often use a -1 EV flash compensation.

Tony Northrup's YouTube video at 1:45 will show you his use of the Flash Bender

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9w5E9I5bW4

Ideally, back lighting or side lighting with fill flash should work quite well. Another trick, which requires more equipment and set up, is to use a pair of flashes and cross light the dog.

4. Pick the background for your dog. Too light or too dark a background will cause problems.

5. Use the Auto Exposure Bracketing system of your camera. Selecting AEB and burst mode will (on every Canon DSLR camera) allow you to shoot three bracketed exposures every time you press the shutter button. The camera will then stop shooting until the next time you press the shutter button. NOTE: this might not be possible when using fill flash because the flash might not recycle fast enough. You may need to shoot the images individually. However, the camera will still give you three bracketed exposures with every three shots you shoot. You don't need to manually adjust the exposure.

6. Shoot RAW and work with your images in post processing.

Finally, don't be afraid to boost the ISO to get the shutter speed to stop the dog's motions and f/stop to give you the DOF you want.

BTW: much of this is also appropriate for shooting all white dogs...

Shoot, shoot and shoot. One really good image for every twenty or more shots is not a bad ratio.

[PhotosInParadise]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to give me some great suggestions!

[xpatUSA]

Not sure why my photo did not show up, guess cause I am new to the forum. I will try a photo again.

Well, that looks like a hard shot to take! A sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't . . . or, pick yer favorite dog.

Best I could do:




Which will be of no help to you at all because I did it in a different editor and it took a good few steps. So, I'm just posting it to encourage you that even that kind of shot can be fixed to an extent. The black dog is the main problem. If you have tone curves in your editor, increasing the slope at the bottom brings it out a bit. For the white dog, it has a bit blown on top of the head so in that same tone curve bringing it down a bit at the top helps. In my editor I did a good few other things.

The histogram is very helpful when making the large adjustments needed by this kind of shot.

Good luck!

[Manfred M]

Sandra - welcome to CiC.

Problem #1 - THE LIGHT. Shooting anything at mid-day in the sun (and that is what your camera metadata is saying when you took this shot (12:16) is going to give you poor results. The light is harsh and casts heavy shadows. The texture in your dog's fur is not going to come out looking good.

If you had shot on an overcast day, the image would have looked a lot better. Had you waited until shortly before sunset when the sun is getting close to the horizon and diffuse, the images would have looked a lot better. If you care to get up and shot within an hour of sunrise, same thing.

If you have to shoot at mid-day, get the dogs into a shady area and shoot there.

Once you have a good shot, taken in decent light, then all the editing techniques will help. A shot taken in poor lighting is going to be a real battle.

[William W]

Following on from Manfred's comments - take a close look at the LIGHTING as it appears on the Dogs. The sun is above and BEHIND the dogs and as a result the front of the dogs are in shadow.

You asked:

"Please advise if there is anything I can do to capture this little black blob with more detail showing!"

So another way of asking that question is: "How do I get good detail in the SHADOW areas of the scene?"

These are three main options as considerations for you, if you must make that shot in that particular lighting scenario:

1. Expose with a BIAS for the SHADOW areas of the scene (ETTR as much as possible) and recover (as much as possible) the highlights in Post Production.

2. EXPOSE the scene correctly for the SHADOW AREAS (and as a result possibly) let the highlight areas BURN OUT

3. Use FLASH as FILL to better BALANCE the shadow areas of the scene with the highlight areas of the scene



*

Some numbers for analysis and guidance:

1. At midday in Texas in early Spring for Hard Direct Sunlight the correct exposure for the highlighted area is F/16 @1/400s @ ISO400 or (F/8 @ 1/1600s @ISO 400) REF: "F/16 Rule".

You pulled the shot at: F/8 @ 1/1000s @ ISO400, so (for the highlight area) the exposure is ⅔ Stop OVEREXPOSED. This is probably quite good, because some or most of the highlight area which is overexposed would be recoverable in Post Production and certainly much of the shadow detail should be able to be recovered in Post Production from a raw file captured with an EOS 700D.

On this point I think that the POST PRODCUTION technique is probably lacking. If that shot were captured in raw file format, then more of the shadow detail should be able to be recovered in Post. Could you load the raw file to a drop box?


2. The correct exposure for the SHADOW areas of a hard sun backlit scene is about 2 STOPS open from the "F/16 Rule".

This would be F/8 @ 1/400s @ ISO400. So this makes your image about 1⅓Stops UNDERXPOSED for the SHADOW areas - and this is where the main detail of both dogs is situated. But if you choose this exposure for the shot, then there would be no chance of recovering all the highlight areas of the scene.


3. If you chose to use Flash as Fill - that is a whole topic of itself. In very simple outline, you would typically bring the SHUTTER SPEED to X-Sync (1/200s for a 700D) then select a suitable aperture and ISO to accommodate the correct exposure for the HIGHLIGHT AREA of the scene (e.g. F/11 @ 1/200s @ ISO100) and then use the Flash (typically in E-TTL Mode) to fill the Shadow area. In many shooting scenarios FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) is applied (typically "-" negative) this is to allow the Flash Fill Exposure to lay a little bit UNDER the Ambient Exposure and this is intended to create depth and modelling and also not to "spotlight" the Subject with dominate (or "KEY") Flash Illumination.

One consideration using Flash as Fill in Backlit Sunlight, when the Subjects are moving, is the possibility that there might be Subject Movement Blur captured by the ambient exposure: but that is unlikely because of the sitting position of the two dogs in this particular shot - if they were running about there would be a chance of capturing some blur.

*

On another note - what is the FOCUSING details (i.e. Manual Focus or Auto Focus: if Auto Focus, then what AF Point(s) used and what AF Mode used)?

The Plane of Sharp Focus appears to be in front of both Dogs.

WW

[dem]

As Bill said the focus plane appears to be in front of the dogs (look how sharp the grass appears at the bottom of the image comparing to the grass next to the dogs' paws). Had the focus been on one of the dogs, both dogs would have appeared sharper.

Unlike the OP states, according to EXIF, the image was taken at f/4.5 not f/8.0 using a 24-70 lens at 55 mm.

[xpatUSA]

Unlike the OP states, according to EXIF, the image was taken at f/4.5 not f/8.0 using a 24-70 lens at 55 mm.

Probably a different shot. She said "I will try a photo again.".

[dem]

Probably a different shot. She said "I will try a photo again.".

Sure. I just pointed this out as it conflicts with the Sunny 16 rule explained in Bill's post. While one would expect the correct exposure to be at

F/8.0 @ 1/1600s @ISO 400

we have got

F/4.5 @ 1/1000s @ISO 400

that is 2.5 stops overexposed. I would expect to see some blown highlights at this exposure, yet the image looks absolutely fine. Are we missing an ND filter or a poliriser here?

[PhotosInParadise]

I really am a Newbie, this is a Hot Mess of a Post and I mixed up what I thought was the correct info I was providing. The point of the post was to show other beginners what you experienced folks already know - you can't improve your photos by just upgrading your equipment. I wanted to show that I was still experiencing the same problem that I upgraded for - to improve my photos showing a black blob of a dog. And I greatly apologize because as you saw I grabbed a photo from when I was taking their pic with my Canon 700D. I gave that 700D to my SIL and NOW have a 70D which unless I learn better technique, still takes the same problem photos i.e. the point of my original post.

With that said, I GREATLY appreciate the information you have shared with me here, taking your time, even tho you could clearly see I didn't have ANY of my info correct. What I mostly get from your info, is that I am taking my photos in the wrong time of the day. I was going out when it was most convenient to me and I MUST want until the lighting is right.

Just as a clarification tho, I do feel as if I must keep the shutter speed set at 1/1000. The little black dog is mostly running 90-0 in circles when he is outside and rarely sits as in the photo I posted, so I feel as if I must be ready to capture that action without blurring. My goal is to get a running photo of him with ALL four feet off the ground. I have succeeded with getting some with 3 off the ground. And FYI on the focus, I am trying the AF center 9 point ZONE Focus for the time being, used to use AF Center Focus 1 Point

Anyway, again, thank you soon much. Here is one that I captured yesterday, an overcast day. Using my 70D and 70-200 f/2.8 lens.

[Donald]

I really am a Newbie, this is a Hot Mess of a Post.

Sandra - Never apologise when what you are doing is learning. The great thing about the guys giving you advice and suggestions on here is that they remember they were once at the very beginning of the learning curve. If we don't ask questions then we never learn.

And the wonderful thing about your posts is that you clearly demonstrate your wish to learn. It's the folks who come on here, post up poor images and then don't like it when help and advice is offered. They're the folks who are not yet ready to learn.

And the other good thing about asking your questions on here and getting responses from the guys above who have responded, is that you're getting the sort of high quality help and assistance that you'd pay a lot of money for if you signed up for some beginner courses. These guys know what they're talking about.

So, keep right on in there. Don't try to learn it all at once. Just take one thing at a time. I'll guarantee that one day soon, you'll look back and see a huge improvement in the quality of your images. I know. I've been there too.

[Manfred M]

Sandra - you make some interesting points and observations in you latest post.

New photographers tend to blame their equipment for the shortcomings in their work. Experienced photographers blame themselves.

You also mentioned that you thought that you could go out at any time to take a picture. The one thing that you learn with experience is the that this is not true. Certain types of lighting are never going to work for any image and what works in one situation, does not work nearly as well in others. An overcast day will work well for your dogs, but not particularly well if you are shooting people and not at all well in landscape photography.

When it comes to learning photography, let me share a few on my experiences. The famous photographer Henri Cartier-Bresson once said "your first 10,000 images are your worst". Nicely said, practice makes perfect. No matter what the camera ads want you to believe, it's going to take some time and effort on your part to become good at photography.

The second part is the way people learn. We build upon knowledge we already have, so learning is an incremental process. This means you can't get out there with your camera and change all the settings on the camera and become a better photographer, simply because you won't be able to figure out which changes had a positive impact on your image and which ones did not. Learn one variable at a time and you will find you will figure things out a lot more quickly and effectively.

[William W]

Firstly, thanks for pointing out the exposure details. I usually check those details, but I was rushing to finish my commentary and get to a job.

That of itself proves a point about rushing . . .

*

. . .I just pointed this out as it conflicts with the Sunny 16 rule explained in Bill's post. While one would expect the correct exposure to be at
F/8.0 @ 1/1600s @ISO 400
we have got
F/4.5 @ 1/1000s @ISO 400
that is 2.5 stops overexposed. I would expect to see some blown highlights at this exposure, yet the image looks absolutely fine. Are we missing an ND filter or a poliriser here?

I concur there seems to be NOT any large area of blown highlights (small area top of white dog and small areas of blades of long grass behind white dog and other random blades of grass).

Another possibility is there was NOT a polarizing/ND filter and the grass was very lush (note in the sample image it isn't lush at all) and the 700D managed the over-exposure quite well.

Also, as I mentioned, that 'overexposure' (of the scene) would be the 'correct exposure' (for the shadow area of the dogs) - note the detail in the white dog appears quite reasonable.

What we do not know is what was done in post processing: that's why I requested a copy of the raw file.

Considering the lack of detail in the black dog (compared to the white dog) and especially now with the revelation of the camera’s settings which were used, I think it even more likely that Post Production (or lack of it) has a lot to do with the issue of the black dog appearing as a "blob".

*

. . . Just as a clarification tho, I do feel as if I must keep the shutter speed set at 1/1000. The little black dog is mostly running 90-0 in circles when he is outside and rarely sits as in the photo I posted, so I feel as if I must be ready to capture that action without blurring. My goal is to get a running photo of him with ALL four feet off the ground. I have succeeded with getting some with 3 off the ground. And FYI on the focus, I am trying the AF center 9 point ZONE Focus for the time being, used to use AF Center Focus 1 Point . . .

For the aim of capturing the dog running, 1/1000s is a good Shutter Speed to have a “safe”.

It would probably be easier and also better (more keepers) to set the AF to 'CENTER POINT' and the AF Mode to 'AI Servo AF' and keep the dog in the centre of the frame when photographing action.

If you are not using Back Button Focus, then keep the Shutter Button HALF DEPRESS whilst tracking the dog's run. For an all black Dog the dog's nose and mouth are the best areas to keep the center point AF aligned.

If he dog is moving transverse (across the camera) then a Shutter Speed of 1/1600s or 1/2000s might be necessary to arrest Subject motion Blur, depending upon the dog's (closer) proximity to the camera and the (tighter) farming of the shot.

Which 70 to 200 F/2.8 lens are you using?

WW

[xpatUSA]

Which 70 to 200 F/2.8 lens [was Sandra] using?
WW

William, it says Canon:LensType = "Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM" in the Adobe XMP data, FWIW.

The power of Browser add-ons ;-)

[William W]

Ta. Ted.

BTW Ted, when editing from the in line sample image provided, I got about the same amount of shadow detail out of the Black Dog as you did - mine was a little less detail actually. . . remember we were editing the already edited version.

All these recent revelations make me more certain that there is indeed a lot of detail in the raw file and that Post Processing has played much in the poor rendering of the black dog.

It is not a matter of choosing one dog over the other - both dogs are in the same light and therefore one 'correct' exposure could be made to render good detail in both of them.

WW

[xpatUSA]

Ta. Ted.

BTW Ted, when editing from the in line sample image provided, I got about the same amount of shadow detail out of the Black Dog as you did - mine was a little less detail actually. . . remember we were editing the already edited version.

All these recent revelations make me more certain that there is indeed a lot of detail in the raw file and that Post Processing has played much in the poor rendering of the black dog.

I do agree.

It is not a matter of choosing one dog over the other - both dogs are in the same light and therefore one 'correct' exposure could be made to render good detail in both of them.

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek of me - shoulda put a smiley, I guess.

As to one exposure fitting both dogs, I guess Canons must have pretty good DR even at what, for me, is pretty high ISO