Images, Titles, and Story Telling

[Shadowman]

Izzies' comment "but I'd rather that we know the story behind it with a bit more description" and Steaphany's explanation "I felt the building would tell it's own story.", brings up an interesting viewpoint in the following thread. Lonely

I know we've had this discussion countless times, but I it still think it needs reviewing as we sometimes post images that mean something to us personally and the viewer can sometimes have difficulty sharing that view. Do most viewer's want a story telling image, the technical aspects of getting the shot, or do they just want to simply view the image as a piece of art?

[bnnrcn]

It depends on what type shot it is John. If it is a documentary shot or event shot I would like to know the story behind it

[IzzieK]

I don't really mean to say it that way...as I am English impaired at times (read "many times")..if it is a work of art, then it does tell its own story example is most of Donald's shots and...pretty much like Daisy Mae's shots for example...a building like what Steaphany uploaded just an example, even just a simple write up as to where it was taken and a few bits on information about it would help, is she knows.

I am not as creative as many here so it will help me as learner to know something, just anything about a shot. I feel like the image is lacking in something. Does she really want us to comment or/and critique her image or not? What is the deal there? Or is she just sharing the image for us to gawk at or stare at it or something? I had mentioned this kind of conversation once to Tejal and he improved on his shots because he asked for C&C and when he upload the first of his Ganesh idol series, the first ones have some write ups about it...then on the rest of his other posts about them, the write-ups were lessened but it makes it more interesting to view and comment on it...

Above are just some examples...if I am a bit harsh in my wordings here, I am sorry...I don't really have the finesse to say things gently at times, but I am learning even in my old age...and I am learning through a youngish 23 year old who has had more bad experiences than I have growing up because she grew up as a military brat...was once a military brat..

There are some here who upload images the same...just a title and an image and sometimes, I tend to ignore them, but that is just me...

[Shadowman]

I don't really mean to say it that way...as I am English impaired at times (read "many times")..if it is a work of art, then it does tell its own story example is most of Donald's shots and...pretty much like Daisy Mae's shots for example...a building like what Steaphany uploaded just an example, even just a simple write up as to where it was taken and a few bits on information about it would help, is she knows.

I am not as creative as many here so it will help me as learner to know something, just anything about a shot. I feel like the image is lacking in something. Does she really want us to comment or/and critique her image or not? What is the deal there? Or is she just sharing the image for us to gawk at or stare at it or something? I had mentioned this kind of conversation once to Tejal and he improved on his shots because he asked for C&C and when he upload the first of his Ganesh idol series, the first ones have some write ups about it...then on the rest of his other posts about them, the write-ups were lessened but it makes it more interesting to view and comment on it...

Above are just some examples...if I am a bit harsh in my wordings here, I am sorry...I don't really have the finesse to say things gently at times, but I am learning even in my old age...and I am learning through a youngish 23 year old who has had more bad experiences than I have growing up because she grew up as a military brat...was once a military brat..

There are some here who upload images the same...just a title and an image and sometimes, I tend to ignore them, but that is just me...

Izzie,

I wasn't being critical of your comment, I was trying to look at this from the position of the photographer who posts the images, do we give the viewer everything they need to enjoy or analyze the image, do we only post images because the imagery was a personal challenge. I've noticed that quite a few forum members include backstories to their image, but wonder if the image could succeed without it, as you said; it's all a matter of personal preference. Also, some members never include titles, I like to do so every so often but I try to make sure there are enough elements within that a title may not be necessary.

[Shadowman]

It depends on what type shot it is John. If it is a documentary shot or event shot I would like to know the story behind it

Hi Binnur,

I think most documentary shots beg for additional background information, while others (like festivals) may just need a location associated with the post.

[jcuknz]

While picture is worth an thousand wod quite often a f ew word completes the point of posting the image. But some fool of a judge slammed this image because of the added words .... as far as I am concerned it may cause some to wonder 'why' I think the reporting of the event and what was going on was important and valid.

"The Lady Pleads"


That tells a story in itself but more interesting to me is 'why' ... She was the 'go-fur' of a Japanese documentary team [ or production assistant] and the director wanted the juggler to move into the composition he had organised. The juggler was not too keen on the idea
Whereas a photo from an event connected but different day says all I wanted to in the title ...
"The Lady Says"


Both shot taken with my Rolleiflex and copies off prints for digital c1996 Festival Week Dunedin. I think the top one is syncro-sunlight as I was using my flash for quite a few shots.

[jcuknz]

Then as I walked around the city I found this balloon in the gutter and earlier in the day I had heard a news report that the airline had grounded some of its aircraft for some reason....

"Grounded"



I think the few words completes the story.

[Shadowman]

While picture is worth an thousand wod quite often a f ew word completes the point of posting the image. But some fool of a judge slammed this image because of the added words .... as far as I am concerned it may cause some to wonder 'why' I think the reporting of the event and what was going on was important and valid.

"The Lady Pleads"


That tells a story in itself but more interesting to me is 'why' ... She was the 'go-fur' of a Japanese documentary team [ or production assistant] and the director wanted the juggler to move into the composition he had organised. The juggler was not too keen on the idea
Whereas a photo from an event connected but different day says all I wanted to in the title ...
"The Lady Says"


Both shot taken with my Rolleiflex and copies off prints for digital c1996 Festival Week Dunedin. I think the top one is syncro-sunlight as I was using my flash for quite a few shots.

John,

You've presented some very good examples of images that may or may not need a backstory, some viewers might be content with just the captures and others might want more.. I think an image should be like a short story, it includes enough to engage the audience; yet leaves a bit of mystery as to the conclusion.

[Thlayle]

John,

You've presented some very good examples of images that may or may not need a backstory, some viewers might be content with just the captures and others might want more.. I think an image should be like a short story, it includes enough to engage the audience; yet leaves a bit of mystery as to the conclusion.

John... and John,

If the image is the message, then yes it should speak, on its own without added explanation. Alternately, of course photos can be wonderful backdrops for the words someone conveys or, as already mentioned, sometimes some added words to the image really work well. John, I think your shots you shared are great examples of images that speak for themselves.

What I mean is that if imagery is not embedded as part of other communication, it MUST say something on its own. Accomplishing that communication is the essence of the art of photography that I am continually trying to understand and improve at.

This image below is my own example of how I began in recent years to realize how an image can speak for itself. When I went to take the shot, it was to capture the pier and the lighthouse during the fury of high winds on Lake Michigan. I didn't even know people surfed out there. Since the surfers weren't leaving, they became part of the shot, and thus 'the story' of the image.



I called this shot "Savage Charisma" to convey my thoughts about the alluring beauty and the terror of the lake, but I think the image tells that story well on its own.

Regards,

Randy

[Shadowman]

John... and John,

If the image is the message, then yes it should speak, on its own without added explanation. Alternately, of course photos can be wonderful backdrops for the words someone conveys or, as already mentioned, sometimes some added words to the image really work well. John, I think your shots you shared are great examples of images that speak for themselves.

What I mean is that if imagery is not embedded as part of other communication, it MUST say something on its own. Accomplishing that communication is the essence of the art of photography that I am continually trying to understand and improve at.

This image below is my own example of how I began in recent years to realize how an image can speak for itself. When I went to take the shot, it was to capture the pier and the lighthouse during the fury of high winds on Lake Michigan. I didn't even know people surfed out there. Since the surfers weren't leaving, they became part of the shot, and thus 'the story' of the image.



I called this shot "Savage Charisma" to convey my thoughts about the alluring beauty and the terror of the lake, but I think the image tells that story well on its own.

Regards,

Randy

Randy,

Another good example that could stand on its own without title or backstory, yet it still invites questions which you very kindly answered.

[Max von MeiselMaus]

Coming from a combined arts and design background, I would say yes. An image without a "story" (or concept) is just decoration. You might look at it for a moment, then move on. A story will keep you engrossed and draw you in. It turns an image into art. But the story an image needs to tell will depend on the purpose of the image. The most obvious scenario is photojournalism, where the image has to tell the story of the event without words. Same with narrative images. But other images have their own stories. A portrait should tell us something about the sitter (and I say "should" as many just try and make the person look bland and conventionally attractive, although I do acknowledge that this might be just the "story" the sitter might want). Even a straight product shot has to convey a message ("Look at this thing! Look at how shiny and perfect it is! You know you want it!").

So, whilst a satisfactory image can be produced without a story, it is the ones that tell a tale that will stay with you.

But I can feel us moving into a "What is art?" type discussion here, and that is always dangerous.

[Loose Canon]

I’ll take the other route on this one John!

Some presentations need some technical explanation in order to accurately assess what is going on with it.

One member I appreciate is Mike Buckley. He likes to offer a full explanation of his studio work’s technical aspects, lighting, compositing, etc. and that makes it very helpful as I view his images. I can then visualize what he is doing and why and I find that very useful.

I try to do something along those lines with some of my stuff myself but am probably not as particular about it as Mike. But I probably should be and I have offered full on details on how I have made a shot before when asked including BTS shots, which I take for all my shoots of this nature. There are a couple of websites I visit where it is a requirement to post this information with the shot.

So if we are considering this an educational photographer’s site rather than just a photo sharing site, this should happen.

Of course, some images really need technical explanations more than others. If you are doing some complex lighting/compositions, high speed photography, complex compositing, then these need a bit more in the way of a technical explanation as opposed to a background story or personal anecdote.

And it still makes my day to read of someone’s romp in the park with their dog and they shot they got doing it!

[Rider in the Sky]

I don't really mean to say it that way...as I am English impaired at times (read "many times")..if it is a work of art, then it does tell its own story example is most of Donald's shots and...pretty much like Daisy Mae's shots for example...a building like what Steaphany uploaded just an example, even just a simple write up as to where it was taken and a few bits on information about it would help, is she knows.

I am not as creative as many here so it will help me as learner to know something, just anything about a shot. I feel like the image is lacking in something. Does she really want us to comment or/and critique her image or not? What is the deal there? Or is she just sharing the image for us to gawk at or stare at it or something? ...

Above are just some examples...if I am a bit harsh in my wordings here, I am sorry...I don't really have the finesse to say things gently at times, but I am learning even in my old age...and I am learning through a youngish 23 year old who has had more bad experiences than I have growing up because she grew up as a military brat...was once a military brat..

I agree with Terry, Binnur and IzzieK.

Not only about John's topic, but also, in the sense that English isn't my native language. So , please excuse me if I inquire what the poster means.

.......
So, whilst a satisfactory image can be produced without a story, it is the ones that tell a tale that will stay with you.

Absolutely ! but without negating Terry's viewpoint about technical explanations with the shot.

I’ll take the other route on this one John!
Of course, some images really need technical explanations more than others. If you are doing some complex lighting/compositions, high speed photography, complex compositing, then these need a bit more in the way of a technical explanation as opposed to a background story or personal anecdote.

And it still makes my day to read of someone’s romp in the park with their dog and they shot they got doing it!

[jcuknz]

The competition I refered to was a photojournalism one so I still think the judge is a provincial idiot aided by his choices which he did accept. I judge my work by that of the Photo Editor of our local paper who continually presents wonderful images of the stories he covers. Two stick in my memory ...BCU of a snail amongst the raindrops on a car hood reflecting a sunset .... and during a flood he perched on the bow of a jet boat with his FF NIkon to get a farmer driving it through the flooded farmland. He also took a chopper out and landed on a passing iceberg off the coast, they usually melt before reaching NZ coastal waters.

I also unfortunately see the mundane results of journalists who for ecconomic reasons I expect shoot pictures to go with their reports ...

I see no point in the usual technical details given here as they tell very little but seem to be lapped up by numerous folk, Mike Buckley excepted

[Rider in the Sky]

.....
I see no point in the usual technical details given here as they tell very little but seem to be lapped up by numerous folk, Mike Buckley excepted

Pardon me John, because as a newbie, I appreciate posters who take time , effort to provide technical explanations along with their shots.

Hey, it's just me ......

[Shadowman]

Pardon me John, because as a newbie, I appreciate posters who take time , effort to provide technical explanations along with their shots.

Hey, it's just me ......

For some images, the time of day is more important than what settings were used. I tend to look for the difficulties a photographer may have faced when capturing an image and midday shots seem to be some of the most difficult to capture without some extra care needed.

[Manfred M]

An interesting question, John.

I can only write for myself and frankly I think any image I post means something to me personally, otherwise I wouldn't be posting it. Usually I am also satisfied with the technical and compositional components of the images (these two aspects are really difficult to separate most of the time).

It think the reason I post is a bit different than any of the reasons you state. When I first joined, I pretty well just stuck to the technical discussions on this site, and occasionally posted images to demonstrate the point I was trying to make. Several members asked me to post more, so I started doing so for two main reasons:

1. To run my images past the members to see what comments come out. I find I am fairly good at analyzing other people's work and critiquing it, but I have a lot more problems doing so with my own. I generally float some part of my images to see what people think. Sometimes their opinions get me to modify the image as I use their suggestions as guidance and tweak my image. Sometimes it improves the results and other times there is little impact or it may even not look as good as my original post (to me at least).

2. The second reason I post is that I do give advice and offer opinions here. I feel it is important for people to see my work as that gives them an idea of my level of "expertise" and knowledge. That helps them (I hope) see if they should heed my comments or ignore them.

[dragon76]

Izzies' comment "but I'd rather that we know the story behind it with a bit more description" and Steaphany's explanation "I felt the building would tell it's own story.", brings up an interesting viewpoint in the following thread. Lonely

I know we've had this discussion countless times, but I it still think it needs reviewing as we sometimes post images that mean something to us personally and the viewer can sometimes have difficulty sharing that view. Do most viewer's want a story telling image, the technical aspects of getting the shot, or do they just want to simply view the image as a piece of art?

John,

It depends on their views about photography. Visual art has been a consistent interest of mine from an early age so unless an image was severely under or over exposed that I could not make out any important details of it, I would always view it from an artistic perspective first and then the technical aspect. If it does not attract my emotion, it won’t get my vote no matter how much I respect & admire the technical efforts that were put into the shot. Having said that, people whom are into specs & tech, they would always have the opposite view.

The Oxford dictionary for art definition
"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power".


I have seen a few unfavourable expressions regarding grungy & overtone HDR and to be honest I don’t really mind them. To me they are artistically sound and in some ways they are like Andy Warhol's pop art & Trey Ratcliff is quite well-known for that type of HDR.



Cheers

[IzzieK]

I rather like the last one without an explanation nor write up because it says it all..

While picture is worth an thousand wod quite often a f ew word completes the point of posting the image. But some fool of a judge slammed this image because of the added words .... as far as I am concerned it may cause some to wonder 'why' I think the reporting of the event and what was going on was important and valid.

"The Lady Pleads"


That tells a story in itself but more interesting to me is 'why' ... She was the 'go-fur' of a Japanese documentary team [ or production assistant] and the director wanted the juggler to move into the composition he had organised. The juggler was not too keen on the idea
Whereas a photo from an event connected but different day says all I wanted to in the title ...
"The Lady Says"


Both shot taken with my Rolleiflex and copies off prints for digital c1996 Festival Week Dunedin. I think the top one is syncro-sunlight as I was using my flash for quite a few shots.