When do you draw the limit on flipping an image?

[Mike Buckley]

Page 17 of the March 2015 edition of Food & Wine magazine is a full-page advertisement of the Chase Sapphire credit card explaining that using the credit card makes it possible to visit "where they filmed that movie and plunge into the turquoise waters of Maya Bay." However, Maya Bay doesn't look as shown in the accompanying photo because the photo has been flipped horizontally.

Personally, I think it's unacceptable to flip a photo when it is being used in such a documentary context. Your thoughts?

[chauncey]

Can't argue with your point but, you are close to opening a can of worms...
our government flips stories all the time.

I'm sorry, some things just slip out without thinking, my mouth isn't coordinated with my brain...
it's called cerebral-mandibular dysrhythmia.

[James G]

Mike,
I'm definitely of your opinion and would not condone the action. I'm 'old school' and probably naïve to expect any kind of honest image presentation in any advertising context,
It seems particularly stupid though, to flip an image of somewhere that may be well known, since it will rapidly become obvious.

I'd guess that the misrepresentation is also compounded by non too subtle cinematic embellishment of the 'turquoise' waters.

James

[Manfred M]

While it is not a practice I generally use, I have done a certain amount of "flipping" in photocomposites for compositional reasons.

I personally don't care one way or the other, but find it a bit amusing when the flip is obvious; backwards print, clocks are backwards. cars are driving on the wrong side of the road, etc.

[selig1656]

I like my eggs flipped over, now as for a pic , it works for me if done for enhancing a photo and for compositional purpose not to mislead in a documentary pic.

[DEAN01]

Pictures should never be flipped! Many, many years ago I worked with a newspaper and a photograph an editor wanted to publish showed a man in profile, facing left. The editor wanted to run the photo with the man facing right--this was a photo that someone sent to the paper. Simply flip the photo, no one would ever know. The photo ran facing right. The next day the man came to the paper asking how he was shown in right profile--the editor turned very pale. The man, a Korean War veteran, was missing most of the right side of his face. He found the situation to be very funny.

[Mike Buckley]

Pictures should never be flipped!

Never say "never."

A good example of a photo that in my mind should be flipped (horizontally, vertically or both) is an abstract image that is more appealing when changed. The success of an abstract can be based on the apparent direction of the shapes and tonalities. When I'm making an abstract, nobody should ever care whether I make that direction happen before or after releasing the shutter. That's because there is no deception involved; instead, it's only a matter of creativity.

[Shadowman]

If I cropped a figure or structure in camera and really wanted to include that subject in the final composition, I would probably flip the image to get symmetry.

[NorthernFocus]

...Personally, I think it's unacceptable to flip a photo when it is being used in such a documentary context. Your thoughts?

Mike, I agree with this statement. On the other hand I wouldn't characterize advertising as "documentary" unless it was directly advertising a travel destination. So I guess in this particular case, IMO it's neither here or there.

On the other hand, even if there is no ethical/moral dilemma involved, it is simply silly. Why go there for an advertisement like this? If it is simply for convenience sake, why risk the potential embarassment of something that may be noticed and brought to light? Particularly with the modern day possibility of your embarassment going viral. Just find another image that works for you. I'd guess this was likely a graphic artists decision and that most involved were unaware of it and not knowdedgeable enough to catch it. Just goofy.

I have flipped images for graphic arts reasons. A couple of years ago I wanted to use a bear photo as my "signature" image for business cards. Once I'd set it up the bear was on the left of the card with the text to the right of it. It just didn't feel right so I flipped the bear photo such that the text showed up on the left. Who knew but me?(and now all of CIC). I passed out 250 of the cards without a pang of concience. Or at least until now...

I guess that brings up another question. At what point does a photo become graphic art? And is there a difference?

...I'm sorry, some things just slip out without thinking, my mouth isn't coordinated with my brain...
it's called cerebral-mandibular dysrhythmia.

I'll have to remember that one. I thought I just had COB(cranky old b***d) syndrome

[Mike Buckley]

I wouldn't characterize advertising as "documentary" unless it was directly advertising a travel destination. So I guess in this particular case, IMO it's neither here or there.

I unsuccessfully, though only very quickly, tried to find the advertisement online so everyone could see it and come to their own conclusion about the extent of the documentary nature of the advertisement. My thinking is that the credit card was being advertised directly and that the bay, a very famous beach, was being advertised indirectly.

However, it's possible that the local chamber of commerce paid to have their beach included in the advertisement. It seems to me that when money trades hands for the purpose of enticing anyone to go to a particular place, the place should be displayed accurately whether it is being directly or indirectly advertised.

In the case of your business card, you weren't directly or indirectly advertising the bear itself or its environment; you were advertising your ability to make attractive photos of wildlife. In that case, it wouldn't matter to me whether or not you flipped the image.

[James G]

Ok, the debate is on...

If it is ok to flip this specific image for the advertisement, it would be equally reasonable to flip the Brooklyn Bridge or Niagara Falls if it were being used in a similar context because it resulted in a 'better' advert? Absurd you might say.... But not if the image is not well known?

Using Mike's 'yardstick' the flip in this case is deception or stupidity rather than creativity.

[NorthernFocus]

... it's possible that the local chamber of commerce paid to have their beach included in the advertisement. It seems to me that when money trades hands for the purpose of enticing anyone to go to a particular place, the place should be displayed accurately whether it is being directly or indirectly advertised...

That never occured to me. And in such a case I completely agree. Not having actually seen the add I'm mostly speaking out of turn. My context was simply an idyllic background setting for a card advertisement. If the intent is at all to advertise the specific location of the altered photo, then yes, I'm in full agreement that crosses the line.

[Mike Buckley]

If the intent is at all to advertise the specific location of the altered photo, then yes, I'm in full agreement that crosses the line.

The text prominently displayed in the ad mentions the name of the beach and that it was used to film a movie. That qualifies as advertising the specific location and reputation of the altered scene, as opposed to simply displaying a beautiful beach scene and not mentioning its name or fame.

[xpatUSA]

I once flipped an entire video so my son could make out the guitar chords I was playing

[NorthernFocus]

I once flipped an entire video so my son could make out the guitar chords I was playing

Which begs the question, when one flips for a good cause, what's the flipping problem?

[jcuknz]

I flipped a harbour view for the background to a model railway layout and a fellow club member who owned a business shown in the photo saw it and he was completely puzzled as in addition to flipping I very carefully flipped the business names back again which also of course involved rotating them to match the angle of the building ... great fun
People expect flipped photos to reveal themselves with backward signs
Having layers in your editor is indispensable .... my plug for proper editors

EDIT ... another flip story ... at a group discussion at the camera club there was a photograph which cried out to be flipped for better composition but the group leader looked at me as if I was mad when I suggested it ... obviously he didn't appreciate the difference between documentary and artistic interpretation.

[mrinmoyvk]

Depends completely on the picture. Many reflection images are flipped vertically to look like actual image below and reflection in upper half. However here in India almost all the motor bikes have their exhaust on right side but in many images it is shown on left side because those are flipped. It becomes confusing at times but not always.

[davidedric]

Sometimes, in the UK, car adverts are filmed in continental Europe and the flipped for showing in the UK so that the car is on the proper side of the road and the steering wheel on the proper side. I think I'm ok with that.

Dave

[Black Pearl]

Isn't advertising all about creating the dream, the ideal, the desire?
We all know the reality isn't always the same so frankly does it matter what is done to a photograph so long as it isn't actually misleading a person into buying.

[James G]

Isn't advertising all about creating the dream, the ideal, the desire?
We all know the reality isn't always the same so frankly does it matter what is done to a photograph so long as it isn't actually misleading a person into buying.

I’d argue that photography as art is very different from photography in advertising. The thread questions the deceptive use of images in advertising ...
I fully understand the advertising pitch as all about creating the dream, the ideal, the desire. My experience however is that it more often works to distort or subvert these concepts into dissatisfaction, disillusion and disappointment in order to promote a bit more consumerism, and, as long as the ‘hook’ engages, anything is acceptable to achieve this.

The point is that the hooks used are so often dependent on images, and music.

I really hate it when a melody that was of significant emotional importance to me , is hijacked inappropriately to promote trivia, and spoiled forever. Nessum Dorma is a case in point.

This ‘spoiling’ also applies to images used in advertising, and in some ways is much more subtle.

A sponsor may want to present their location in the best possible light... photographs of the pyramids in downtown Cairo are never advertised on the basis that they are just down the road from the suburbs! Its much better to present them in a remote desert setting.

Or, if you are going to the Giants Causeway, all the advertising shots, show it with a few tourists scrambling around, rather than with the hordes who will be there during the season for most of the daylight hours.

Deception by omission is probably inevitable, but altering for dubious aesthetic reasons is an avoidable deception. Flipping seems to me to be in this category.

Don’t get me wrong, I have no desire to go back to 'simpler' time, the never did exist. I live in the 21st Century, and think I’m savvy enough to understand and resist the siren calls, but I do get tired of constantly deconstructing the pitches.
That’s it I’m breaking up the soapbox now....