Nikon 7100 vs full frame nikon - user level 6-7

[JR1]

Jeremy - in motor sports; the vehicles move so darn quickly (which means they move a great distance in a fraction of a second), you have a totally different shooting scenario.

One example that comes to mind for me is ice hockey. If you want to catch an event that has limited movement; a faceoff or a shot from the blue line, you can anticipate what the referee or player is going to do. Often there can be a hesitation of a few seconds.

Once you have pressed the shutter release, you are commited to holding it until the play unfolds and that can be a few seconds.

In a perfect world short bursts are often fine; but we don't live in a perfect world where we can anticipate what a person or animal is going to do next...

I see almost no difference between motorsport and jet skis in aqua x for example, a car for example travels on a flat surface, a jet ski can go 6' in the air at 90mph, it is goo old "anticipation" which photographers learn over the years, where, when, why

[NorthernFocus]

I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to see outside one's own frame of reference. I have no idea what the longest uninterrupted burst that I've ever shot was. I only stuffed the buffer once or twice in a D300. Never in D4 or D800. Do so nearly every time I use the D7100 on wildlife. Six frames simply doesn't do it for what I shoot. On dog agility I switch to jpeg and life is wonderful. Each tool has it's uses. If one has to do it all with a single camera, then compromises may have to be made.

[ajohnw]

I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to see outside one's own frame of reference. I have no idea what the longest uninterrupted burst that I've ever shot was. I only stuffed the buffer once or twice in a D300. Never in D4 or D800. Do so nearly every time I use the D7100 on wildlife. Six frames simply doesn't do it for what I shoot. On dog agility I switch to jpeg and life is wonderful. Each tool has it's uses. If one has to do it all with a single camera, then compromises may have to be made.

I am glad the E-M1 adds the ability to set the frame rate I want which I feel can be more important. Super fast sounds great but often with many thing nothing much is happening between frames.

John
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[Dave Humphries]

D7100 buffer capacity is 100 or so shooting jpeg but only 6 frames shooting RAW. Card speed makes a big difference shooting jpeg but zero difference with RAW. At 6fps shooting RAW there simply isn't any time to write to the card before the buffer fills. I've tested various cards with no meaningful difference.

I would expect it to clear quicker with a faster card, surely?

I haven't tested on my D7100 - I did test once before, it seemed to be partly an exercise in using up much 'shutter count'

I cannot remember the details of when I did previously test speed of writing to memory cards (probably on my D5000), but I remember one surprising (at the time) result - the bigger the card, the slower it was (in camera), even if a 'faster card'.

UPDATE: (I believe) I have just remembered that the camera this 'bigger is slower' effect happened with was the tiny Canon S100 (using 8GB or 32GB cards), not the Nikon D5000. I attributed that to the smaller camera perhaps having multiplexed memory addressing (e.g. the larger address space needed two clock cycles to write to), but that is pure conjecture, there might be another reason.

I now shoot with a 32GB Extreme Pro, like the one in Jeremy's lower photo, my personal guidance on buying 'SD' cards for modern cameras is that the Class figure (10) is less important than the fact that if the card supports UHS-1 ("1" inside the "U"), it will be quicker that one that isn't (they'll likely both be C10 anyway, as shown).

Cheers, Dave

[NorthernFocus]

I would expect it to clear quicker with a faster card, surely...

No doubt. But in the context of shooting a single burst it's irrelevant. If the delay between frame 6 and 7 is one second or 1.5 doesn't really matter.

[JR1]

I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to see outside one's own frame of reference. I have no idea what the longest uninterrupted burst that I've ever shot was. I only stuffed the buffer once or twice in a D300. Never in D4 or D800. Do so nearly every time I use the D7100 on wildlife. Six frames simply doesn't do it for what I shoot. On dog agility I switch to jpeg and life is wonderful. Each tool has it's uses. If one has to do it all with a single camera, then compromises may have to be made.

Are you talking RAW or JPEG as the D7100 does NOT shoot just 7 Jpeg see above and to be honest Unless I am shootinga wedding I couldn't care less about this supposed holy grail RAW, I use it on and as a backup only and 99% of my images are JPEG, on perhaps 1% or less occasions I have had to use the RAW image because of lighting.

This also ammuses me

I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to see outside one's own frame of reference

The ORIGINAL poster asked about the D7100, I showed the comparison between a slow and a fast card ON a D7100.

[NorthernFocus]

...to be honest Unless I am shootinga wedding I couldn't care less about this supposed holy grail RAW, I use it on and as a backup only and 99% of my images are JPEG, on perhaps 1% or less occasions I have had to use the RAW image because of lighting.

This also ammuses me

I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to see outside one's own frame of reference...

[rpcrowe]

Mike wrote: "Mark you can do no better than to go to a Nikon dealer and handle the cameras. Get the dealer to explain the various features and limitations."

Unfortunately, this is not always the very best route. First, although we "expect" that persons who sell cameras should be versed in their use, that is not always the case. There is such a proliferation of brands and camera models within those brands that the salesperson doesn't always have a handle on the best choice. Often salespersons are not photographers themselves.

Secondly, a camera salesperson is often influenced by what the owner desires to sell, This can be influenced by the profit the dealer will make on the item and/or the stock of items on hand that need to be moved. Small mom and pop stores will not have a large array of cameras for sale (not like Adorama or B&H). Obviously they tend not to recommend items which they don't sell.

Often the salesperson will not know about problems with a piece of gear or will know about those problems but, decide to downplay the problems...

As an example, before the release of the Canon 70-200mm f/4L IS lens, I was pondering the purchase of a Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS lens because I wanted a long lens with IS capability (choices were more limited at that time).

The only problem was that I kept hearing horror stories on the Internet that the 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS lens had drastic sharpness problems at 300mm when shot in the vertical configuration with the IS on. I asked the salesperson at my local camera store about the problem and he assured me that there was no problem and that the complaints on the Internet were unfounded. I decided to purchase the lens at that store because I was unsure about it and I wanted to be able to have a face to face if I wanted to return it. The store had four copies of this lens in stock. I decided to test each copy and select the one with the least apparent problem...

The day I decided to pull the trigger on this lens, the four copies that the store had in stock the previous day were not available. The salesperson assured me that he knew nothing about this and that he assumed that the lenses probably had been sold.

It turned out that Canon (after months of denying that there was a problem) had recalled the lenses from dealers to fix the issue.

Another thought... When I was in my early twenties, I worked in the photo department of a discount department store to supplement my Navy salary (which was pitifully low at the time). We did not get any bonuses except when we sold specific items that the store was having problems getting rid of. Guess which items we were encouraged to move?

[mrinmoyvk]

It isn't the fact that you can rattle off 30 shots in three seconds, it is the fact that you can take 4-5 shots of "just"what you want

Agree to this, 30 shots in 3 sec is like, lets try, I may get atleast something in one of the shot where as 10 shots in 1 sec is like, I know what I want and that will happen in this particular second.

Point to be noted is 30 in 3 is same fps as 10 in 1 but both make lot of difference.

[mrinmoyvk]

my personal guidance on buying 'SD' cards for modern cameras is that the Class figure (10) is less important than the fact that if the card supports UHS-1 ("1" inside the "U"), it will be quicker that one that isn't (they'll likely both be C10 anyway, as shown).

Cheers, Dave

Agree with you Dave, UHS 1 is enough...
There are UHS-3 in market now. Before they were in market, firing bullets were captured, breaking electric bulbs were captured., even 4K videos were captured.

Not sure what they are used for .

I think its just the matter of choosing right shutter speed and firing flash at the right time. Card speed is less important.

[Nicks Pics]

In response to the talk about card speed in the D7100- Have any of you seen this website? http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/nik...sd-card-tests/ I though t it was interesting. What I make of it is that you can shoot 6 fps on any card, but if you continue to fire after that initial burst before the buffer clears you can shoot at a faster rate using a faster card. According to this site's test the fastest card for the D7100 is SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s 32GB and can keep up 2 fps after the initial burst. Which still isn't very rapid, but it might also help the buffer clear faster so that you can do another burst sooner.

[ajohnw]

The stuff in the camera that is driving it is often the limiting factor not the card.

John
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[Nicks Pics]

The stuff in the camera that is driving it is often the limiting factor not the card.

John

-Perhaps you could explain that thought a little further, but what this site does is it tests various cards in a single camera, in a way as to get reliable results, and they do find that one card can be faster in a certain camera than another.

A UHS2 card doesn't necessarily run faster in a camera (such as the D7100) that is only UHS1 enabled. It wil revert to working as a UHS1.

One class 10 UHS 1 card can be faster than another, as I understand it, you need to look at the mb/sec rating for the card. - Just somewhat random thoughts.

[GeoBonsai]

Do you already have a collection of NIKKOR DX-format lenses? If so, that might sway your decision toward the Nikon D7100.

I've been shooting a Nikon D3300 (APS-C/DX format) with the 18-55mm kit lens for about six months now. In that time, I have invested in three "DX" lenses: a Nikon 35mm, Nikon 18-200mm, and Nikon 10-24mm. My thought was to learn with the Nikon D3300 and upgrade to the Nikon D7100 so I can keep all my lenses. Different Nikon lenses are designed to accommodate the different camera sensor sizes. In the case of DX cameras with their smaller sensors, corresponding DX lenses have been designed that are optimized for use with the APS-C sensor.

Nikon FX cameras can use DX lenses, however to avoid vignetting, the DX crop mode is automatically selected by the FX camera when a DX lens is attached. Only the central portion of the FX sensor is used. That's not why you bought an FX camera! To avoid the DX crop mode you'll have to replace your DX lenses with FX lenses. So, if you already have a lot invested in DX lenses, instead of going full frame, upgrading to the Nikon D7100 makes the most sense.

~~~
Now, let's further complicate matters!

If you want the full-frame option, you'd do well to consider/research either the Canon 6D ($1799 US) (released Sept. 2012), the world's smallest and lightest (26.8 oz. (760g)) full-frame DSLR or the Nikon D750 ($2296 US) (released Sept. 2014), Nikon's lightest (29.473 oz. (835.55 g)) full-frame DSLR with a flippy screen! And then be sure to buy full-frame lenses that are specifically designed for which ever body you select (FX lenses for the Nikon D750; Canon EOS EF lenses for the Canon 6D).

Let us know what you decide.

(BTW: Nikon D810 ($2996 US) weighs 34.0 oz. (965g)).

[William W]

Do you already have a collection of NIKKOR DX-format lenses? . . .

Asked of the OP in Post #29:

What lenses do you own?

Reiterated in Post #41.

I am curious also: maybe I missed it? but thus far there appears to be no response to the question by the OP.

WW

[Nicks Pics]

Quote Originally Posted by GeoBonsai View Post
Do you already have a collection of NIKKOR DX-format lenses? . . .
Asked of the OP in Post #29:

Quote Originally Posted by Brev00 View Post
What lenses do you own?
Reiterated in Post #41.

I am curious also: maybe I missed it? but thus far there appears to be no response to the question by the OP.

WW

You should look at the first page of this thread to see who the OP is.

I just noticed an interesting conversation going on on this somewhat old thread and joined in.

[ajohnw]

-Perhaps you could explain that thought a little further, but what this site does is it tests various cards in a single camera, in a way as to get reliable results, and they do find that one card can be faster in a certain camera than another.

A UHS2 card doesn't necessarily run faster in a camera (such as the D7100) that is only UHS1 enabled. It wil revert to working as a UHS1.

One class 10 UHS 1 card can be faster than another, as I understand it, you need to look at the mb/sec rating for the card. - Just somewhat random thoughts.

There seems to be catches at both ends. The camera manufacturers spec type but not what speed the camera runs at - which is up to it. Cards of the same spec level can have entirely different mb/sec ratings.

From the wiki - and not as clear as it was

The Ultra High Speed (UHS) bus is available on some SDHC and SDXC cards.[18][19][20] The following ultra-high speeds are specified:

UHS-I
Specified in SD Version 3.01,[21] supports a clock frequency of 100 MHz (a quadrupling of the original "Default Speed"), which in four-bit transfer mode could transfer 50 MB/s (SDR50). UHS-I cards declared as UHS104 (SDR104) also support a clock frequency of 208 MHz, which could transfer 104 MB/s. Double data rate operation at 50 MHz (DDR50) is also specified in Version 3.01, and is mandatory for microSDHC and microSDXC cards labeled as UHS-I. In this mode, four bits are transferred when the clock signal rises and another four bits when it falls, transferring an entire byte on each full clock cycle.
UHS-II
Specified in Version 4.0, further raises the data transfer rate to a theoretical maximum of 156 MB/s (full duplex) or 312 MB/s (half duplex) using additional row of pins[22][23] (a total of 17 pins for full-size and 16 pins for micro-size cards).[18]
Cards that comply with UHS show Roman numerals 'I' or 'II' next to the SD card logo,[24] and report this capability to the host device. Use of UHS-I requires that the host device command the card to drop from 3.3-volt to 1.8-volt operation and select the four-bit transfer mode, while UHS-II requires 0.4-volt operation.

Much is down to the clock speed in the camera - also the mode it actually uses. Until the camera manufacturers specify their end rather than just showing the SD type logo or mentioning it much is up in the air.

John
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[Nicks Pics]

Much is down to the clock speed in the camera - also the mode it actually uses. Until the camera manufacturers specify their end rather than just showing the SD type logo or mentioning it much is up in the air.

I think the purpose of this Camewra Memory Speed .com website is to find the actual in-practice speed of the cards, by testing, rather than going by the manufacturer's specs.

I have heard that the actual speed specified (e.g. 90 mb/sec) will be slightly slower than the actual write speed, which might be about 70 mb/sec, though it may very. Also write speed might be a little slower than read speed.

[Manfred M]

John - You bring up a good point on both the camera and cards but I think there is an even more important variable; file size.

The quoted camera burst speeds are often for jpeg files, and when I look at the in-camera processed jpegs I have. I just looked at one days worth of shooting and the SOOC jpegs varied between around 5MP to around 10MP; based on a 16MP sensor and "highest quality" settings. The data buss can only handle a set throughput, so ignoring the file handling overhead, the write time for a specific card for a 10MP image would be about the same as for two 5MP images. So if I'm shooting pictures of a snowman in a snowy field on an overcast day, I would expect smaller file size than a complex image with a wide variety of small patches of colours. Although, I'm not sure why I would shoot the snowman in burst mode...

[Nicks Pics]

The website I have been referring to uses the same subject, so that file sizes will be constant when doing a test. I am not quite sure what you mention that burst modes are usually given in Jpeg, who cares how many jpeg a camera can shoot? It is usually a high number (i.e. enough) so I thought RAW was more relevant.