Is it computer up-grade time

[dabhand]

Can also right click on the taskbar at the bottom of the window and select Start Task Bar then go to Processes...

Every day is a school day - thanks Izzie - all these years of running M/soft and I didn't know that.

steve

[ajohnw]

I assume you have specified that Photoshop can have access to a large chunk of the RAM - it could be on the default in which case it will page to the hard drive more.

Building your own does mean you can specify all the components - and its not hard. Getting the right graphic card with as much memory on it helps, and I believe Photoshop can use some of the features of newer Nvidea cards.

If the OS is 64bit paging goes but the person that wrote Zerene told me that there isn't much difference in run time between 32 and 64bit however I suspect he expects people to reduce the size of shots before stacking. Halving the size of these would reduce memory use to a 1/4 for instance and still produce a large image. Run time should reduce by a similar amount. More and more layers will also extend the time dramatically as the work goes up and up as there are more pixels to compare with each other. 2 layers for instance are only comparing and aligning a and b. 3 layers means comparing all combinations of a,b and c and so on.

Realname Yes as hit a significant point if Adobe do that. I suspect task manager will give some idea of free memory when everything is loaded and running. On the other hand Windows might decide to swap to ram if there is any spare. I would leave some spare as things pop up from time to time in all OS's and making them swap out would defeat the objective. The disc activity light is a simple indication of what is going on. Odd flashes when applications load other parts of their software shouldn't make much difference if the application is written well. I generally choose discs that have large catches as that can help in this area. If there are many flashes all of the time then the set up is swapping out.

Last time I bought a video card with lots of memory I found that for my use it was a waste of time. In fact I intend to swap to an Nvidia's business graphics card at some point. The NVS 300 for instance has a 512mbyte of ram and no fan plus a very high memory bandwidth. They also do a 16x PCIe version of it. My HP machine came with on board graphics so I fitted the card I usually use - an NVidia silent clone from Asus. The lack of a fan which is fitted to the Nvidia version means I can't increase it's clock speed. Asus produce fof HP. The last time I looked at Nvidia's business cards the quadro nvs450 was top of the range but I have no use for 4 displays. The 420 has a fan so for some the 450 might be a better option.

People might not take the cpu heatsink aspect seriously but it can make a significant difference. There are plenty of posts on the web about throttling reducing the speed to 25% of normal. Most pc's use doesn't really make much use of the processing power that is available. It's best to try and find a utility that stresses the cpu and also works the maths core as well.

The latest NVS cards all have fans - I don't like the noise they make even in a rather hefty case that the HP comes in.

John
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[John 2]

...............People might not take the cpu heatsink aspect seriously but it can make a significant difference. There are plenty of posts on the web about throttling reducing the speed to 25% of normal. Most pc's use doesn't really make much use of the processing power that is available. It's best to try and find a utility that stresses the cpu and also works the maths core as well..............
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I do as of yesterday. I have just been trialling Photo Ninja because it is supposed to be the best for Fuji X RAW files conversion. I applied Noise Ninja to a large TIFF and all eight threads shot up to max and after a few seconds, the temp alarms went off (ASUS MB). Photo Ninja confirm that the software is process heavy but no worse than gaming software. I had the temp threshold set to 70 deg C and so I'm not at the limit and I'm guessing that because the fans can't react that quickly, it may be a thermal inertia problem and so a CPU cooler with decent heat sinking as you describe, might be in order. - just in case any one else is thinking in terms of Photo Ninja.

[ajohnw]

There is a run down on using Intels stress test here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk26nJbTg8M

It looks like he uses taskmanager to see if the cpu is being throttled. It can be seen to drop to 77% at the end of the video. Maybe the software also allows the number of cores and threads that are being run to be set. Task manager could also be used to spot thottling while stacking is actually running. Also swapping I suspect.

On Linux as there are a few of us about I use this one - it's savage.

http://www.kornelix.com/lbench.html

I wouldn't advise using the disk tests on flash drives as it will give silly numbers - slow due to how they work. Some green drives give appalling numbers. I have one. It's ok as a data dump.

Many moons ago I used to extract every ounce of performance from my home machines. The only one that is really worth while is over clocking the cpu really but faster clocking generally doesn't give a pro rata increase in performance over all and types of motherboard and disc set ups can have a much more noticeable effect. However good workstation motherboards are now rather expensive and I am sure I couldn't build the machine I have from scratch for what it cost me. These types of boards are not around so much in the UK now either and many are now an overpriced con, hence switching to a Xeon board. I did use 10K SATA Enterprise disks but the prices went through the roof and no ones seems to sell them any more. As I use flash for applications no need now really so I use western digital red as they are raided. Red can be rather important in this area. Green drives can be really bad news on raid set ups. 7k enterprise sata aren't that bad a price now unless they are sata III. These have much higher mtbf times than ordinary drives which can be checked on the spec's. Always worth looking to see if this is true. The 10k were scsii discs really so I suspect that they have gone because scsii now runs even faster.

John
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[chauncey]

Update...made some Preferences adjustments as suggested here...
http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/...p-cs4-cs5.html it does help somewhat.
Activating Task manager indicates everything is pretty much maxed out, Dah
A better video card won't fit in my system...reliability of SSD's seem to be up in the air.

It would seem that if I want that video card and a new motherboard, gotta get a new system which
would be based around this http://robertoblake.com/blog/2014/01...computer-2014/
I wonder about, perhaps, getting some cloud funding....

[dabhand]

......reliability of SSD's seem to be up in the air.

Wm - discussing the reliability of SSDs is much like the 'theorectical' discussions of ought else - for normal users, what I can say is that as long as you stick to the newer models from either Crucial or Samsung you'll not go far wrong - I use both in my various Windows and Linux systems which are used for image and video processing and I also have one to backup my Samsung Android tablet and have had no more issues than with HDDs.

steve

[ajohnw]

Update...made some Preferences adjustments as suggested here...
http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/...p-cs4-cs5.html it does help somewhat.
Activating Task manager indicates everything is pretty much maxed out, Dah
A better video card won't fit in my system...reliability of SSD's seem to be up in the air.

It would seem that if I want that video card and a new motherboard, gotta get a new system which
would be based around this http://robertoblake.com/blog/2014/01...computer-2014/
I wonder about, perhaps, getting some cloud funding....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z420-Work...item5d5046298d

It would be better to find one without a graphics card really. Sound is on the motherboard but I added an xfi titanium as I like my musicand have rather large decent speakers - no pops and bangs on that one when the machine is switched off or suspended either.

I'm glad I have bought mine as there doesn't seem to be any ex demo ones about at all now even in the UK.

I did wonder about getting the larger case version. To gain more room I swapped the dvd drive and the card reader round and fitted an ssd disc behind the reader. I suspect even without ex demo pricing it would be interesting to price up the cost of build it yourself including a case that is built like a tank - not easy to find in my experience. They are true workstation boards too not just fitted with lots of slots to look good.

I thought that I read some where that latest PS needs all of a 512mb video card. Wow! Pass.

John
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[ajohnw]

Wm - discussing the reliability of SSDs is much like the 'theorectical' discussions of ought else - for normal users, what I can say is that as long as you stick to the newer models from either Crucial or Samsung you'll not go far wrong - I use both in my various Windows and Linux systems which are used for image and video processing and I also have one to backup my Samsung Android tablet and have had no more issues than with HDDs.

steve

I agree with that Steve but I didn't want to find out for myself so decided to avoid the obvious pitfall with them. My son also did a lot of looking around at them while at university and found some makes better than others in terms of life time and problems. Loading and saving to decent discs doesn't add much of a time issue - I just loaded an 84mb 16bit png, it's more or less instantaneous, I'd guess about one sec and well under 2 including loading the application to edit it from the flash drive. That also includes this application scanning the directory it is in for files, 50 of them in this case. The scanning makes it look like things are taking longer as the image comes up 1st then the result of the scan which now disappears before I can read it.

Even the GIMP takes longer to initialise itself than to load and convert the same image - the actual image load on that is about 2 sec.

John
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[chauncey]

FWIW...I just ran a timed test 0f 50 22MP slices>importing from LR to layers in PS took 9:45>
aligning in PS took 5:40>stacking in PS took 6:27. Is it slow or am I being anal about the whole thing?

[DanK]

Chauncey,

You have enough memory. I have 16 GB, and I have no problems stacking (although I don't stack 80 images). Stacking is slow, but it doesn't have to be that bad. I have a few suggestions:

1. Don't stack in photoshop unless there is a reason to. Zerene is much faster, I think, and it is more flexible. I can't remember the last time I used PS for stacking. I think I would only use it if I needed manual alignment or masking, although the retouch tool in Zerene might substitute for masking in some cases.
2. Don't use so many slices. It isn't necessary for most of the the sort of photography you are doing. Most individual flowers can be handled with fewer than 20 slices, many with far fewer.
3. If you do buy a new computer, get an SSD. There is a lot of stuff on the web saying which files should be on the SSD, because it doesn't matter much for all of them. I have a simpler solution. I load all of my software on the SSD, and I use my internal hard drive only to hold my image files. It is MUCH faster.

I just did a simple test. I took 15 images, exported them as 16 bit TIFFs from LR to Zerene, and stacked using PMax. It took 50 seconds to export them, execute Zerene, and load the TIFFs into Zerene. Stacking with PMax took 1:24. DMap is slower because it requires a second (automatic) pass. The two DMap passes combined took 2 minutes.

Here's the image. Note that it is pretty deep--look at the curled petal in the foreground. 15 images worked fine, and I probably could have used fewer.

[ajohnw]

I've got a suggestion too Chauncey - why not watch the video I posted a link to and see if the processor is throttling. That is something most people can do something about easily unless they are using a laptop. At least after you have done that you will know if your machine is running as fast as it can and not how fast the manufacturers have decided to allow it to be when it has rather a lot to do.

I would 2nd Zerene too. It's not that expensive. If you are one of those people who reckon price counts there is another as well that is more expensive. The person I mentioned uses that and also gear which automates taking the shots but he also gets tax relief on it all. A search for stacking software should bring up both of them. Maybe the freebe too.

I generally only stack for HDR. The software I use reduces the shot for preview and when I'm happy processes the entire image which takes considerably longer. I do have a fast machine, my OS is much faster than windows too so I suspect you are probably being a bit anal. However throttling is a distinct possibility so why not check it out. Actually I would suggest all do that as it's the first thing I do with a new machine but then that's me.

John
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[tao2]

Would appreciate any and all suggestions directed toward increasing performance as much as reasonable,

Hi Chauncey,

ye could always try overclocking. Ye do have a decently powerful PC but the CPU is now around 6/7 years old, ripe for a wee boost. If yev never overclocked before, get a friend/relative who has, tae take a look at the machine. The i7-920 can overclock up tae almost double its default speed (iirc) but around 45/50% increase would be stable. Ye'd need bigger, better fans, the PC'll run hotter and probably a better cooler for the CPU (all inexpensive).


It's generally accepted that overclocking reduces the lifespan of the CPU/motherboard. Ah overclocked my old XP outfit, AGP board and graphics, shows how long ago that was; it lasted me 8 years (10 years in all).

So ah'd suggest o/c is worth considering, especially if ye want tae delay buying a new PC.


PS have ye checked yer anti-virus? Ah believe that PS has problems with Kaspersky and one or two others, the solution is updating the AV(inc.drivers).

Do ye regularly maintain the machine? Pick a grey rainy weekend and painstakingly go through every program/app installed -update them all. Uninstall any that ye haven't used for more than a year.

Download and run Belarc Advisor http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html. It shows a wealth of information about what's on the PC.

[chauncey]

Boab...that Scottish accent is a killer...reads well, like it. I have a tech son that tries to keep my machine cleaned up. Did not realize that Kaspersky causes problems with PS, thanks for heads-up.
FWIW, he did offer to build me a newer one with new mother board, video card, and SSD's...
I think I'm gonna do it, if the cloud funding proves out.

Dan...the number of slices needed is determined by your lens, f/stop, and focusing distance.
I routinely shoot at 18' or less and my depth of field averages less than 1/8", taking needed
overlap into consideration, ya need a bunch of slices.

[DanK]

Dan...the number of slices needed is determined by your lens, f/stop, and focusing distance.
I routinely shoot at 18' or less and my depth of field averages less than 1/8", taking needed
overlap into consideration, ya need a bunch of slices.

I typically shoot flower macros, if they are against a plain background, at f/8 or so. I often shoot at much less than 18". I shoot some much closer, with higher magnification, using tubes. Even with those, I have never needed more than 25 slices. I have actually probably needed less. I have never used more than 25, and the majority are 15 or less.I don't actually calculate DOF, since the regular DOF calculators don't work right at macro distances, and I have found that the small increments I use have never been insufficient. Most of the flower macros in my two flower directories are stacked this way, so you can check to see what you think of the results. You should do whatever works for you, but my experience suggests that you may be making things harder for yourself than you need to. Just IMHO.

[chauncey]

Back to my upgrade quandary...does anyone here use the memory intensive jobs in PS CC on images
from their high MP Nikons? What's your computer like?

[xpatUSA]

. . . I don't actually calculate DOF, since the regular DOF calculators don't work right at macro distances . .

I have one that does, Dan. You enter the subject's apparent size and it's framing - the calculator tells you the shooting distance, near and far focus distance and DOF and you then play with the aperture setting to get the DOF you seek. It's based on a paper by Richard (Dick) Lyon who is well-known in the biz.

Please PM if interested.

[chauncey]

Canon 1DsMkIII>180 macro at 20 inches @ f/11...what's my DOF and how many slices needed for
1 1/2 inch depth of subject.

[Polar01]

I originally had a system build (desk top), which had a 120GB SSD, when every thing was loaded there was almost no memory left to process the images. So I had a 240GB SSD installed (C Drive) loaded only with programs, the 120GB SSD I made as a scratch disk. Boy is it smoking fast, now all files and documents and images are stored on 2 2TB standard hard drives, I think it is called a raid (could be wrong) and that is also auto backed up to an external 3TB with slows everything down. Around a 240GB SSD is good and using a smaller SSD as a scratch disk really speeds up thing in my opinion.

Cheers: Allan

[Saorsa]

It appears that you have about 3/16" DOF if that is a foot/inch ruler. It might be 1/4" if you find it acceptable at the top and bottom..

I would round down to 1/8" which would mean 12 slices.

[DanK]

I have one that does, Dan. You enter the subject's apparent size and it's framing - the calculator tells you the shooting distance, near and far focus distance and DOF and you then play with the aperture setting to get the DOF you seek. It's based on a paper by Richard (Dick) Lyon who is well-known in the biz.

Please PM if interested.

Ted,

thanks. I'd be interested, but your profile seems to be set up not to accept PMs.

Dan