Canon 430ex (I) vs. Yongnuo yn-560

[Raysha]

Greetings,

I am planing to get my first external flash, since I don't and never liked the built-in flash (since its annoying sometimes), + Flash reduces noise and extracts more details , gives me a lot of control over the light.

I haved kinda leaning to the canon 430ex (older version) used, since I want to try the HSS to freeze motion and stuff like that... maybe I wanna try the ETTL (although many prefers manual), buying flash as it seems to me will become handy when I don't have the time to manually chose whatever is needed.

And then later I will get myself one or two of the Yongnuo yn-560... btw, does Yongnou support HSS and can my pop up flash trigger it ?

Also, I never used external flashes but I think I will be preferring using only one flash almost always, of course I will use the pop-up flash to trigger the external one.

[inkista]

... I haved kinda leaning to the canon 430ex (older version) used, since I want to try the HSS to freeze motion and stuff like that... maybe I wanna try the ETTL (although many prefers manual), buying flash as it seems to me will become handy when I don't have the time to manually chose whatever is needed.

I tend to tell folks to get an eTTL-ii capable flash for their first or only flash, go with the manual-only cheapies for additional units. However, the main drawbacks to the 430EX are that it only swivels 270 degrees, has no master mode (not a big deal since the 650D has a master in the pop-up flash, but you won't be able to do wireless HSS with it), has slightly less power than the 580EX units, has no sync port, has no recycle beep, no built-in "dumb" optical slaves, and cannot be controlled through the camera's menu (the MkII can). If that stuff doesn't matter to you, then go for it.

And then later I will get myself one or two of the Yongnuo yn-560... btw, does Yongnou support HSS and can my pop up flash trigger it ?

The YN-560 units cannot do HSS or eTTL-II. All of them (except the YN-560EX) cannot be a Canon wireless slave to the master unit in your 650D. You can trigger the YN-560, 560II, or 560III with your pop-up flash, but only in a "dumb" optical slave mode (sensor sees a flash burst, fires the flash), in full manual.

If you wanted a Yongnuo flash with HSS and eTTL-II and wireless Canon slave mode capability, you could get the YN-500EX YN-568EX, or YN-568EXII, but they will be more expensive than the YN-560 models.

Also, I never used external flashes but I think I will be preferring using only one flash almost always, of course I will use the pop-up flash to trigger the external one.

Best to start with one flash and wait until you know you need more before buying additional units.

[rpcrowe]

I totally agree with everything that Kathy Li says about the 430EX Mk.I....

I shoot with a 430EX Mk.I and a 550EX... These two flashes do just about everything I need from a hotshoe flash.

I would not be without auto capability in a flash. I cut my teeth on manual flash units and I got decent exposure. However, it was more work and slower than shooting with today's automatic flash control. When thyristor flash exposure control came along, I thought it was great and when the through the lens controls came along, I really loved it.

I seldom use my flash on manual because in the venues in which most photographers use their hotshoe flash on manual, I most often will use a studio strobe setup. However, I will use my camera on manual exposure and the flash on eTTL quite often.

I almost always bounce my flash whether hotshoe mounted or mounted on a Stroboframe Camera Flip Bracket. I modify the flash with a Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Pro which works great modifying either a hotshoe mounted flash or a bracket mounted hotshoe flash.

I want HSS in my flash unit because I will frequently use fill flash outdoors. If I am restricted to a 1/250 second shutter speed or slower, I cannot open my aperture to maximum in order to use selective depth of field effectively...

The 550EX and 430EX flashes are older models which don't have all the bells and whistles of the newer generation flash units. However, these older flashes do what I want them to do - that is produce well lit and natural looking images.

If I were to purchase a flash today, I would (unless there were strict budgetary reasons not to) choose the 430EX II or one of the higher level Canon flashes. But, since I was using the 550EX before the 580EX or 580EX II was introduced and since I was using the 430EX before the 430EX II was introduced, and since I get very good to excellent results using these two flashes, I have never been really tempted to upgrade to the later models.

If I were planning on purchasing my first strobe, I would not worry if that flash had master capabilities since you need two flashes to shoot with a master and a slave. Therefore, it seems to me that it makes no diffeence if you purchase the master capable flash first or second.

Regarding triggering a flash with the onboard, pop-up flash - any flash that is slave capable can be triggered by the onboard flash. These include the Canon 420EX, 430EX I and II, 550EX, 580EX I and II and 270EX II (but not the 270EX I) and newer flash models as well as "some" selected third party flash units. However, using the onboard flash as a trigger can be somewhat chancy outdoors. The reliability of the pop-up flash as a trigger depends on the distance from flash to subject, angle and brightness of the sun, and whether the slave can "see" the pop-up flash. As an example, when using the pop up flash to trigger the slave mounted on a Stroboframe Bracket, the combination will not always work outdoors because of the parameters I listed above. To make certain of triggering, I use an Off-Camera Sync Cord when I am shooting on a bracket.

[jcuknz]

I believe that the YN 468 [Canon]will do E-TTL with Canon cameras and the YN468[Nikon] will do I-TTL with Nikon cameras ....I have given my Canon DSLR away to a good home so cannot confirm this now I never got around to using them together as I prefer my Panasonic cameras

[inkista]

I believe that the YN 468 [Canon]will do E-TTL with Canon cameras and the YN468[Nikon] will do I-TTL with Nikon cameras ....

Yes. Forgot about that one. No Canon wireless slave capability, and the UI isn't quite as nice, and only has 270-degree swivel (the 568EX has 360, which is why I tend to recommend it more for on-camera bouncing use). But the MkII added a PC sync port.

It's very hard to keep up to date on YN models. They proliferate like rabbits...

[Raysha]

Whoa~ A lot of info -starts writing notes-

Thanks uncle Kathy , uncle Richard , uncle jcuknz :P

[rpcrowe]

There are several other bells and whistles that make the 430EX MkII a bit more handy than the older 430EX MkI.

These bells and whistles could convince me to purchase the MkII but, not necessarily switch from the MkI:

The quick lever lock metal foot feature vs. the screw lock - really nice
Faster recycle time - the recycle with Sanyo rechargeable batteries has not been a problem for me
All parameters can be controlled through the camera menu

However:

The MkI has a dedicated slave control switch which I like better than accessing slave mode through the menu but, that would be up to the individual user.
The MkI has a silent recycle. I sort of like the low whine of the 430EX recycle because it helps me identify when the flash is fully recharged. Again, that would be up to the individual user. I wish that they had a on-off switch on the 430EX MkII for the recharging whine.

However, neither of the above two factors would convince me to purchase a used MkI over a MkII but, add a bit to my decision to keep the 430EX.

The one parameter which might be a convincer is that you can usually find a used 430EX MkI quite a bit cheaper than a MkII.

BTW: If you are going to shoot in auto mode only and really want a decent flash at an absolute rock bottom price. The little 420EX, which was the forerunner to the 430EX is a decent unit. I will often carry mine for fill flash. It is a bit less powerful than the 430EX and cannot be used in manual mode. However, it is smaller and lighter in weight than the 430 series, has through the lens metering, slave capability, tilts and twists, and includes HSS capability. I don't know about where you live but, I often see used 420EX flashes in the USA running between $50 and $75 U.S. Dollars. I used the 420EX for years and was fairly satisfied with it when the only selection of ETTL Canon flashes was the 420EX and the larger 550EX, plus the totally (IMO) incapable 220EX.

[inkista]

To me, if you are stony broke and don't mind taking a risk on cheap Chinese manufacture (which is cheap for a reason), then the YN-568EX can be a decent sub for a used 430EX or 430EXII. In the US, a YN-568EX costs about $165-$180. And itt has the menu commandability of the 430EXII, ETTL, full-manual, zooming, and HSS, but in addition it has:

• More power (about half-way between a 580EX and 430EX)
• Goes down to 1/128 power (vs. 1/64)
• 360-degree swivel (vs. 270)
• A 2.5mm minijack sync port (vs. no sync ports)
• Built-in dumb optical slave modes (one of which can ignore a pre-flash)
• Nikon CLS slave mode (as well as Canon TTL wireless slave)
• Recycle beep (no need to time the whine )
• MULTI mode

So a lot more capable, bigger, and a little bit cheaper. But. Cheap for a reason. Future/backwards compatibility isn't as good as an EX, and service/warranty can be questionable, depending on who you buy it from.

The one problem with a 420EX is that there's no manual power control if you're doing off-camera with cheap manual-only radio triggers, Strobist-style.

[RustBeltRaw]

Reliability and TTL accuracy are two things that haven't been mentioned yet. I started with a TTL-capable Vivitar flash with roughly the same power as a 580EX II. No TTL system is perfect, but the Vivitar's light output was all over the place, even in fairly constant conditions. Naturally, I didn't notice that until I replaced it with a 580EX II after its power supply fried while I was shooting Tom & Gary's Decentralized Dance Party. No, I won't show sample shots - I sucked back then. Sucking less now. It wasn't weather sealed, either.

Highly recommend sticking with name-brand Canon units if you plan to use TTL extensively. If my experiences with the 580EX II and 600EX-RT are any indication, you'll find their light output far more accurate and repeatable than off-brand TTL flashes. Starting with an automatic system and dialing its exposure up and down is a fine way to begin learning flash. But do stick with it. Quite a few people buy flashes, and simply wind up more dedicated to available-light photography.

[Raysha]

I have been researching about flashes lately (around the time I posted I didn't really understand every bit you guys said lols) I KIND OF decided what to do thanks to you guys... there are still some confusions which requires a different topic, will do that later... There aren't satisfying amount of flash tutorials out there, probably because (I guess) flash photography is NOT easy.

As for 430ex vs yn-560 , I would get a 430ex mark I first and later on, two of yn-560 and probably a set r-602.
I want to "live" with the flash so 420ex is a bad idea for me since it lacks manual mode as said up there.

The disadvantage of 270 degree doesn't really sound like that much annoying actually...

430ex I vs II- Even though I can't experiment even if I wanted to, but my personal thoughts after checking reviews are :
I don't find the pop up flash master-ing thing interesting (its better than nothing OF COURSE), I mean it needs to fire to trigger the other flashes, and that means it would effect my picture head on, I won't like it will I? I didn't try but I don't think I would. Is it possible for the other slave flash over power errr over come the effect caused by the pop up flash firing ? I don't know x_X

When I grasped the idea of the 430ex II being controlled through the camera menu I was like "there is no way I would buy the Mark I" but l realized that the pop up flash should be raised, I felt like "that can suck", the price difference is around 77$ (I am buying used), I would rather use that 77$ on another flash or trigger (is that really smart?) but wait... Would I miss that future in case I was doing portraiture using pop-up as master with a 430ex + two yn-560s slaves?...

The other extra futures are ummm... I won't miss them at all, 20% faster recharge is like only half a sec difference, the mount thing is fine with me.

I am interesting in using flashes to freeze motion, and with flashes getting triggered "optically" the delay between the fires is something I don't want, I want the flashes to be fired all at once.

Its getting really hard to get the final decision >_<
Now It's more like mark I vs II ... (77$ cheaper vs on camera controls)
It might be useful if its the only flash, but then the flash is in group with two other youngnos I will have to move ANYWAYS.
adding a few more bucks to that 77$ get get me a set of yongou ETTL transiver or yong Transmitter ST-E2.

[Raysha]

I just couldn't help it but open a new topic :

Link: How good is the canon 430exII ?