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Thread: dSLR for Specific Purpose

  1. #1

    dSLR for Specific Purpose

    At present I take photos using an autofocus compact camera. I usually take family photos with this. That is fine. Now, I would like to take some Macro and Shallow Depth photos. I would like to get suggestion from you for a camera/lens that will best suit my requirements.

    1. Type Of Picture: I am mainly looking to buy this camera to take shallow DoF photos and Macro photos. But occasionally, I will have to take family photos and landscape photos. So the camera/lens should be made for shallow DoF and macro; still having the ability to take a landscape (though not perfect for landscape)
    2. Sensor: I have read that “Larger apertures on small-sensor cameras don't have as big an effect on depth of field as they do on a dSLR. “ http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-6501_7-...int-and-shoot/. Hence, I think, larger Sensor will be needed for my scenario.
    3. Lens combination: I am fine if the camera comes with a lens that meets the requirement or if the camera comes with body only and I need to purchase one. But I will be in a position to buy only one lens due to financial restrictions. 
    4. Focus Distance: When I want to take Shallow DoF photos, the subject will be maximum at 15m distance only. I am not going for wildlife photography... So too much zoom may not b needed for me.
    5. Size: I don't mind even if the camera is bulky
    6. Apertures: I think f/stop should be good since I need Shallow DoF photos
    7. Light: My macro and Shallow Dof photos will be outdoor photos with good light. Hence low-light may not be a requirement
    8. Economic. I am looking for low price that can meet all the above requirements.

    QUESTION

    1. What should be the camera specification for the above?
    2. What should be the lens specification for the above?
    3. What are the models that you can suggest?

    I am looking for suggestions from experts like you…

    REFERENCE

    1. OLYMPUS EPL1 PEN DSLR - http://www.ebay.in/itm/OLYMPUS-EPL1-...ht_11642wt_978
    Last edited by Lijo; 4th June 2013 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #2
    William W's Avatar
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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    You could give serious consideration to a second hand older model 135 Format DSLR and a Standard Prime Lens and a set of Extension Tubes..

    For example:
    • Canon EOS 5D
    • Canon EF 50 F/1.8MkII
    • Kenko Set of Three Extension tubes.


    WW

  3. #3
    DanK's Avatar
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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    shallow DOF and macro point in opposite directions. For somewhat narrower DOF, you would want a FF / 135 format camera. For macro at anything close to 1:1 magnification, I prefer a crop sensor. In macro, shallow DOF is a severe problem, and a crop sensor gives you a bit more. More important, crop sensors typically have a higher pixel density, and since at 1:1 the image of the subject is the same size regardless of the sensor size, a crop sensor gives you a lot more pixels on the subject.

    The difference in DOF is not large and can be offset by changing aperture, unless you need a shallower DOF than a crop sensor camera will give you at your len's maximum aperture.

  4. #4

    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by William W View Post

    For example:
    • Canon EOS 5D
    • Canon EF 50 F/1.8MkII
    What will be the most prominent draw back if I use Canon EOS 1100D with Canon EF 50 F/1.8MkII?

    Note: From http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home...SLR/EOS_1100D/ says can use Canon EOS 1100D with all EF and EF-S lenses

    From http://www.photographyblog.com/revie..._1100d_review/
    The Canon EOS 1100D is priced at £419.99 / €499.99 body only,
    £459.00 / €549.00 with the non-stabilised EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 III lens,
    £499.99 / €599.99 / $599 with the new EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II lens,
    and £459.00 / €549.00 with the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 III lens.

    Lens Review: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx
    Last edited by Lijo; 5th June 2013 at 12:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Lijo View Post
    What will be the most prominent draw back if I use Canon EOS 1100D with Canon EF 50 F/1.8MkII?

    Note: From http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home...SLR/EOS_1100D/ says can use Canon EOS 1100D with all EF and EF-S lenses

    From http://www.photographyblog.com/revie..._1100d_review/
    The Canon EOS 1100D is priced at £419.99 / €499.99 body only,
    £459.00 / €549.00 with the non-stabilised EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 III lens,
    £499.99 / €599.99 / $599 with the new EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II lens,
    and £459.00 / €549.00 with the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 III lens.

    The largest drawback is that you would be shooting with a camera with a prime (fixed focal length lens) at 50mm which is the equivilent of an 80mm lens on a full-frame camera. In my view, this would be very limiting when it comes to shooting.

    I do have a 50mm lens, but I never shoot it on my crop-frame camera; just the full-frame one.

  6. #6
    William W's Avatar
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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Lijo View Post
    What will be the most prominent draw back if I use Canon EOS 1100D with Canon EF 50 F/1.8MkII?

    Note: From http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home...SLR/EOS_1100D/ says can use Canon EOS 1100D with all EF and EF-S lenses

    From http://www.photographyblog.com/revie..._1100d_review/
    The Canon EOS 1100D is priced at £419.99 / €499.99 body only,
    £459.00 / €549.00 with the non-stabilised EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 III lens,
    £499.99 / €599.99 / $599 with the new EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II lens,
    and £459.00 / €549.00 with the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 III lens.

    Lens Review: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx
    IMO, there will be two, perhaps three, when considering your criteria, :

    1. The F/1.8 on an APS-C will have an “equivalence” of DoF of about an F/2.8 lens as used on the 5D for the same framing. You mentioned you wanted shallow DoF as the #1 criterion – the main use.

    You will still have some shallow DoF using an F/1.8 lens on an APS-C camera, but it won’t be as much as if you used the F/1.8 lens on a 5D. The difference of the (lack of) shallow DoF will be more noticeable as you frame wider (shot farther away from the Subject).

    Obviously “Shallow DoF” is Subjective.

    I am taking the point of view of having the most shallow DoF available to use - BECAUSE you gave Shallow DoF as one of the two of your main criteria for buying this additional camera and lens.
    .
    2. (As Manfred has already mentioned) the 50mm lens on an APS-C body will act as a short telephoto lens: not a Standard Lens – this will be limiting for example for Family Portraiture, Group Portraiture, Landscapes and also, just very limiting as a general lens.

    3. A third consideration with respect to your criteria is Macro. As a general macro kit I would prefer the flexibility of a 135 format camera and a set of extension tubes with a 50mm lens.

    If you use the 50mm lens with an APS-C Format Camera (and assuming you get the set of extension tubes), you will have the crop factor of the APS-C camera: how much this is relevant, will largely be dependent upon the Macro Subjects that you wish to Photograph and the shooting distance which would be comfortable (or necessary) to use for them.

    IMO a second-hand 5D and an EF50/1.8 and a set of Kenko Extension Tubes is a solution which suits the eight criteria you specifically listed.

    Any APS-C camera will fall short addressing Criterion 1 - which you list as your main criterion.


    ***

    General Comments:

    I don’t think that using DoF charts and other hypothetical and theoretical OVERanalysis are the best ways to make buying choices.

    However, specific, technical styled questions, as you have asked, will often be met with specific replies, for example, as I have given.

    BUT - what are the SUBJECTS for this shallow DoF work? You mention that you will not be shooting at a distance more than 15 metres . . . IF you are at 15m Shooting Distance, then 50mm lens on a 5D at F/1.8 will have a FoV of about 10m x 7m and a DoF of about 9metres . . .? ? ? so the idea of shooting at 15 meters, implies that the Subjects are very BIG ? ? ?

    As it occurs to me that you seem to be simulating in your mind what the Shallow DoF is that you want: perhaps it would be better to get about shooting with an APS-C DSLR and a kit lens and work ot what shortcomings that kit has – maybe there will be none, for you.

    ***

    You could consider buying the 1100D and the kit lens (get the Image Stabilized Lens) and just use that kit for a period of time – you may find that it will give you the DoF you require.

    The set of Kenko tube will work with the 18 to 55 kit zoom lens for your macro work and should be easy to use good light.

    If you choose this option then you need to ensure you buy the SECOND SERIES of the DG Kenko tubes – these will have the WHITE alignment dot for the EF-S lens to mount. If tyou buy new then you should get these EF-S compatible tubes, but there are still some of the older EF ONLY tubes being sold second hand.

    WW
    Last edited by William W; 5th June 2013 at 01:35 PM.

  7. #7

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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Offering you advice is hard becuase you have not disclosed which part of planet eaarth you live on and some gear may well be easier to access in America than in the Uk or Indonesia .
    For instance I could suggest you look at MFT as a simple camera can cost no more and probably less than a DSLR and turn out equal results for most purposes. When I looked at B&H recently I noticed tha Kenko were quite expensive whereas if you get a older and hopefully cheap lens from film days you can use it with simple extension tubes.

    I have my old Pentax Takumar 50mm f/1.4 on my Olympus E-PL1 which I bought as body only, recently priced at around US$110<115 . With it for most photography you could get a 14-42 for another hundred. I gather the 50mm f/1.8 lens is around $120 though I doubt if you will achieve small DoF at 15metres with anything other than a long lens, though as I have mentioned previously to you much can be done in editing, even the freedownload Paint dot Net.

    This lens from Nikon http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-50mm-Nik...s=F%2F1.8+50mm will give you the large aperture of small DoF as well as F/22 for macro. Though I would ask if you really want to do true macro or simply big close-ups.

    The lens has the needed aperture control to use a ecconomical prices extension tube such as this
    http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-10-MC...ubes+for+macro

    Becuase it is a Nikon lens and tubes you will need a Nikon to MFT such as thuis
    http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Mount...to+mft+adapter

    I think I have spent about $350 on those purchases If that meets your budget. You will have higher ISO than the cheap DSLR I think at 3200ISO and a relatively modern camera with a good track record. and be able to do everything except the <Dof at 15m which the editor will handle for you with practice. The 50mm lens with the extension tube set and Nikon adaptor will give you a 10mm across subject filling the MFT sensor or 17mm ... much better than 'true macro' which would be a 17mm subject filling the sensor and the larger sensor would permit you to crop for 'bug's eye' shots.

    The difference between MFT to APS-C is 60% so I wouldn't and definitely didn't become obsessed with APS-C as I have disposed of my APS-C now I have MFT. MFT is a DSLR ... just a bit smaller

    I also found this page http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=all where I suspect you would need an MFT to Olympus adaptor tube but the important point, they have manual aperture control so you can use plain tubes instead of tubes which couple the lens electronically to the camera and are expensive.

    I don't know anything about the products themselves but I have my camera body from KEH and Amazon can be a good place to buy ... the snag is I don't know where you live and freight and import duty could be a killer for you.

  8. #8

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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Since I believe you have a x4 zoom on your existing camera I mentioned on the way to get shallow DoF for say portraits if that is your desire using a CU lens. A similar lens will enable you to do 'macro' with the advantage that with its short lens, you have written about 5mm and 8mm I think so even at full zoom of 20mm you will have more DoF for macro than any MFT or DSLR. f/8 on a P&S is the equivalent of around f/22 -f/32 on a DSLR
    One of the facts that made the P&S desirable for macro photographers when digital first came on the scene.
    To try this out cheaply I suggest seeing what a magnifying glass will do for you and then there are plastic 'hobby glasses' which come in various strengths and can be taped to the camera lensmounting of the P&S ... my wife did this when photographing some Monarch butterflies she was raising from caterpiller to BF. With my first digital camera I glued holding strip onto the camera to hold a CU lens .. a bit of hobby glass offcut.
    dSLR for Specific Purpose
    Just becuase you splurge on a DSLR doesn't mean you will get better photos, though the larger sensor may make it a bit easier.

  9. #9

    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by jcuknz View Post
    Offering you advice is hard becuase you have not disclosed which part of planet eaarth you live on

    For instance I could suggest you look at MFT as a simple camera can cost no more and probably less than a DSLR and turn out equal results for most purposes.
    I am from India

    From http://www.digicamdb.com/compare/can...lumix-dmc-gx1/ Canon EOS Rebel T3 / 1100D has approx. 46% more surface area than Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1.

    Pixel pitch of Canon EOS Rebel T3 / 1100D is approx. 38% higher than pixel pitch of Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1. The bigger the pixel pitch, the further apart they are and the bigger each pixel is. Bigger pixels tend to have better signal to noise ratio and greater dynamic range.

    1. Isn't the reduction in sensor size a factor affecting photo quality?
    2. Isn't it difficult for a beginner to use Micro Four Third than a dSLR?

  10. #10

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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    That camera was expensive at around US$336 at current exchange rates ...you should check freight and import duties for your country .. India?. UPS for a body only was US$100 to NZ which I rejected and got my Son to bring it to me on his next visit But KEH pack items well.

  11. #11

    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Thanks for the info about MFT. But when I checked most of them are higher cost than Nikon D3100 and Canon 1100D. They cost more than $500

    Can you please provide US amazon links that has low prices good MFT?

  12. #12

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    Re: dSLR for Specific Purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Lijo View Post
    Thanks for the info about MFT. But when I checked most of them are higher cost than Nikon D3100 and Canon 1100D. They cost more than $500

    Can you please provide US amazon links that has low prices good MFT?
    I quote KEH becuase I can trust them although I go to Amazon for small items though last purchases were from B&H in New York, another place you can trust although prices are realistically a little on the high side but you will not get conned by bait and switch from them or KEH
    .
    Just found the E-PL1 for $180 .. what I paid for just my body last year
    http://www.keh.com/camera/Olympus-Di...991140380?r=FE

    I searched Amazon "Olympus E-PL1" and found this site http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...0601963&sr=1-2 but don't know anything about the vendors.

    Found this on Ebay
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

    Goodnight I'm off to bed ....almost 2300hrs.

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