Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Another attempt at some baseball

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    30 miles south of Lubbock TX
    Posts
    317
    Real Name
    Kris Harmon

    Another attempt at some baseball

    Went to another Midland Rockhounds game today. It was a perfect day for baseball. 87 degrees and a light breeze.

    I tried some of what I learned from my last attempt. I pushed the ISO to push the shutter speeds to the maximum. Pushing the shutter speed had the desired effect, pushing the ISO created a huge issue with noise.

    I have come up with some questions from this attempt.

    What Auto focus mode should I be using. One point auto focus or multi-point auto focus?

    By looking at what I posted, what have I missed in post processing to reduce the noise?

    I am beginning to get a little discouraged by not getting the results that I am looking for when I shoot and especially after I process my pictures.

    Thomas Pham at Bat
    Another attempt at some baseball
    Thomas Pham at bat by KHarmon1971, on Flickr
    Camera Canon EOS REBEL T3i
    Exposure 0.001 sec (1/2000)
    Aperture f/7.1
    Focal Length 171 mm
    ISO Speed 800

    Strike TWO!!!
    Another attempt at some baseball
    strike called by KHarmon1971, on Flickr
    Camera Canon EOS REBEL T3i
    Exposure 0.001 sec (1/2000)
    Aperture f/7.1
    Focal Length 187 mm
    ISO Speed 800
    Exposure Bias 0 EV

    The Windup
    Another attempt at some baseball
    0602a by KHarmon1971, on Flickr
    Exposure 1/3200 sec
    Aperture f/7.1
    Focal Length 194 mm
    ISO Speed 800
    Exposure Bias 0 EV
    Flash Off, Did not fire
    Orientation Horizontal

    I have about a 100 more to post process to hopefully find a jewel out of the group.

  2. #2
    gregj1763's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Launceston Tasmania
    Posts
    1,851
    Real Name
    Greg

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Hi Kris, Had a look at your previous baseball photo's compared to these and I think you might be being a bit hard on yourself, these latest shots look pretty good to me.
    They are sharp and the exposure looks better than the previous photos. I can't see any great noise issues but that could be how they display on my monitor, your originals may be different.
    I will be interested in hearing what others think.
    Cheers, Greg

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Johannesburg South Africa
    Posts
    2,550
    Real Name
    Andre Burger

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Hi Kris,

    Why shoot at such high shutter speeds? Why shoot at F7.1, is that as wide open as the lens will go? Understand why the pro’s use fast lenses like F2.8? At 1/2000 you can freeze the prop on an aircraft.

    Think about the shot you would like to get. Be aware of the background and what you would like to exclude from the image. Set up the camera and wait for the appropriate moment.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    30 miles south of Lubbock TX
    Posts
    317
    Real Name
    Kris Harmon

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by AB26 View Post
    Hi Kris,

    Why shoot at such high shutter speeds? Why shoot at F7.1, is that as wide open as the lens will go? Understand why the pro’s use fast lenses like F2.8? At 1/2000 you can freeze the prop on an aircraft.

    Think about the shot you would like to get. Be aware of the background and what you would like to exclude from the image. Set up the camera and wait for the appropriate moment.
    I could open the lens up more I am sure. I opened up the ISO to get the shutter speed up. In the previous baseball thread I posted it was suggested that as long as the exposure was correct there would be no problems with noise. It seems though, judging by the RAW images that there was quite a bit of noise.

    Just out of curiosity, I am thinking of getting a 1.5x or 2x teleconverter but I was thinking that I read somewhere that they were not compatible with either an EF lens or an EFS. Can anybody tell me if which they are not compatible with if either.

  5. #5
    RustBeltRaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,009
    Real Name
    Lex

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Technical issues aside, your framing and timing are good for these shots, and much improved over your earlier ones. Depending on how wide your lens can go, try stopping open to f5.6, 3.5, or 2.8 with ISO200-400 and see if your shutter speed is still high enough. That will narrow your depth of field and concentrate focus on the subject.

    More specifically, image 1 is not level, and seeing the batter's eyes would create a stronger connection with the viewer. With the ump shot, try to catch him with his hand not covering his face, but you grabbed a great moment with him pointed right at the camera. On 3, great framing, but try to get the ball just after release. Again, none of these are bad, but refined timing and technique could bring them to another level.

    With high ISO, it's not quite true that "noise is not a problem if your exposure is correct." Bright areas, where lots of light hits the sensor, have a high signal to noise ratio. Dark areas have a lower SNR, so amplifying their light (high ISO) amplifies their noise considerably. It's more accurate to say that high ISO is not a problem for a well-lit subject, a high-key image, or a scene with lots of texture that can hide the noise. Regardless, these images look pretty much noise-free, so either your PP is excellent, or there wasn't much to begin with. Most viewers won't notice anyway, so don't worry about it.

    Canon's manual for their 1.4x and 2x teleconverters includes a complete lens compatibility list. Basically only L-series telephotos are compatibile, though I believe Kenko (Tokina) extenders can use non-L glass. Note that teleconverters come with some disadvantages. Some lenses will autofocus more slowly, or not at all, when used with a TC, and they'll darken your exposure (like tightening the aperture) with no gain in DoF. 1 stop darker for the 1.4x, 2 stops darker for the 2x.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Johannesburg South Africa
    Posts
    2,550
    Real Name
    Andre Burger

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Kris,

    I have never shot any sport but motor racing. With motor racing I like using low shutter speeds like 1/125 up to 1/250. You shoot any faster and you freeze to much of the action.

    With a tele converter you are going to multiply the aperture as well, F5.6 will become F7.8/1.4x and F11.2/2x if I am not mistaken. For action I would think a tele converter is not a solution for reach.
    You got the tools to do the job, just keep practising to use it until you get the result you want. Try shooting at much lower shutter speeds with a wide open aperture and lower ISO settings. Try spot focus and matrix metering. See what result that gives you.

    A suggestion for taking a shot: In baseball the bat and ball move a lot faster than anything else. Focus on the face of your subject, shutter speed of around 1/250sec. Only the bat and ball should show blur in the shot. Try to capture the shot as the bat hits the ball. If there is to much blur increase shutter speed by one stop and compensate for the higher shutter speed by adjusting ISO. Keep the aperture wide open.

    Good luck. Maybe I should go shoot a hockey game to get a little practise.

  7. #7
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    13,306
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    I usually don't like to say that different equipment would help any images but, the difference between consumer lenses and top-line lenses is quite often that top-line lenses have wider maximum apertures and that they can achieve very-good to excellent image quality when shot wide open. It is in venues like sports in which we have to stretch the capabilties of lenses to the utmost that the top-line lenses (like the Canon L Series) have the advantage...

    If you could have shot with a wider aperture than f/7.1, you might have been able to separate the subjects from the busy backgrounds with selective DOF.

    As an example, I have randomally picked a subject distance of 100 feet. I have also picked a rather conservative f/stop because the 70-200mm f/4L (non-IS) lens is available at a somewhat resonable price. I used a focal length of 170mm because that is generally what you shot at...

    f/7.1 would result in a rather wide DOF of 29 feet with 12.4' in front and 16.6' to the rear of the subject in acceptable focus...

    f/4 would allow a more narrow DOF with 7.4' in front and 8.7' to the rear in focus. This would blur the background considerably more than shooting at f/7.1.

    f/4 would also have allowed you to maintain the same 1/2,000 shutter speed using an ISO of 320 which is well within the capabilities of your camera.

    Sports shooters like to use an even wider aperture. Not because thay can shoot at lower ISO's but because selective focus at wide apertures will allow effective separation of their subject from the background.

    At 100 feet, f/2.8 would provide a DOF of 11.4 feet with about 5' in front and 6.3' to the rear in focus...

    We shoot however, with the equipment we have at hand...

    I am guessing that your lens may have an f/5.6 maximum aperture. The Canon 55-250mm f/4-5.6 and the Tamron and Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 lenses are quite popular.

    Shooting with an f/5.6 aperture rather than the f/7.1 would have resulted in a DOF of 10.1' in front and 12.7' behind the subject which could separate the image a bit more than the f/7.1 at 16.6' behind the subject. Shooting at f/5.6 instead of f/7.1 would also have allowed you to use an ISO of about 640 still keeping the 1/2,000 second shutter speed if desired. You might have slowed the shuter speed to 1/1,000 second which would have allowed an ISO of 320. A 1/1,000 shutter speed will freeze most action adequately.

    I agree with Lex in that the images don't seem to be bothered greatly by noise problems...

    Additionally, concentrating your attention on the background and trying to shoot with the least busy BG would also be an advantage. Sometimes shooting from a bit higher vantage point can help eliminate busy backgrounds somewhat. However, unless you carry a step ladder, it is often impossible to find a higher shooting point and still be close to the action...

    Here is a YouTube video by Scott Kelby which provides some pretty good insight regarding sports photography...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ4KsGYDzgU
    Last edited by rpcrowe; 4th June 2013 at 08:09 PM.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    30 miles south of Lubbock TX
    Posts
    317
    Real Name
    Kris Harmon

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    I appreciate the help. I guess the most frustrating part of all of this is that it seems that the pictures I took last year were better than the one's I have taken this year. I figured with more experience and an upgrade in equipment I would get better results, but I can look at what I have done this year compared to last year and feel like I have taken a step back.

    LAST YEAR

    ROY OSWALT
    Another attempt at some baseball
    064 -1 by KHarmon1971, on Flickr

    With that being said, here are a couple more from this past Sunday. Working on more that I will keep to myself and won't post anymore baseball until I get to another game and put into practice what I have learned here.

    The Follow Through
    Another attempt at some baseball
    The Follow Through by KHarmon1971, on Flickr

    On Deck

    This one was tough for me in post processing. It was getting later in the day and the on deck circle was in the shadow but the stands along the first base line were still in the sun.
    Another attempt at some baseball
    On Deck by KHarmon1971, on Flickr

    The final pic I'm putting up in this series is a picture of a fan that I have seen at every game I have been to for the last three years. Same hat, same ear phones, and same seat game after game. I wish I had a better angle without the hand rail between us but I didn't want to move and get into a spot that he knew I was taking a picture.

    The Fan
    Another attempt at some baseball
    Huge Fan by KHarmon1971, on Flickr

  9. #9
    Ricco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    254
    Real Name
    Peter

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Kris,

    I'm no pro, but will offer my suggestions.

    I am surprised that no one has actually mentioned the processing of the images. I think you have done a good job on the capture, you are just missing a bit of "pop".

    Unfortunately I am now missing my home computer so am unable to show you what I mean, but what I would suggest is increasing your blacks and potentially adding a subtle vignette. I think this would make a world of difference.

    Whilst I usually don't like posting my own photos in other peoples threads, the attached is an example from my son's soccer game. I am guessing that this is taken at roughly a similar distance and focal length to some of your shots but key differences would be the processing mentioned above and also that I shot at a much wider aperture.

    Another attempt at some baseball

    To address your points on ISO, I would make a couple of suggestions. The way I usually approach this is to set up my aperture first (e.g. f/2.8) and then select a random object and adjust my ISO until the shutter speed is more than what I need - by this I mean if the shutter speed reads 1/600th at ISO100 and I need 1/1000, I would bump up the ISO so that I am above it. Alternatively, you could set the camera on P (or Tv?) mode and allow your ISO to be on auto. This would allow you to set the shutter speed and the camera will then select the lowest available iso.

    Hope this helps.

    Peter
    Last edited by Ricco; 5th June 2013 at 06:31 AM.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Surrey, BC, Canada
    Posts
    301
    Real Name
    Blake

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    The picture of the pitcher there is awesome. Us photographers are always learning.

  11. #11
    kdoc856's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,960
    Real Name
    Kevin

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Kris,

    Don't get discouraged. There's a lot more good about these shots than the little bit that needs tweaked. I think shooting with a larger aperture is the place to start and will yield immediate results.

    Regardless, you've done a great job of capturing some of the uniqueness of minor league baseball- the intimacy of players and spectators, players looking to be between the ages of 14 and 40, skinny umps hoping like the players to get to the Bigs. There's a lot in minor league ball that is far more interesting than in the Majors, and I hope you keep on coming back to this. You're telling the story well.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    30 miles south of Lubbock TX
    Posts
    317
    Real Name
    Kris Harmon

    Re: Another attempt at some baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by kdoc856 View Post
    Kris,

    Don't get discouraged. There's a lot more good about these shots than the little bit that needs tweaked. I think shooting with a larger aperture is the place to start and will yield immediate results.

    Regardless, you've done a great job of capturing some of the uniqueness of minor league baseball- the intimacy of players and spectators, players looking to be between the ages of 14 and 40, skinny umps hoping like the players to get to the Bigs. There's a lot in minor league ball that is far more interesting than in the Majors, and I hope you keep on coming back to this. You're telling the story well.
    I absolutely love minor league ball. If you are a baseball fan, even a casual fan, you are missing out if you don't go to a minor league game. It is far cheaper than a major league game, the players are more approachable and are always willing to sign autographs for the kids. The entertainment between innings is top notch, and the baseball is really good.

    I have plans of going to Albuquerque to an Isotopes game some time this summer, and my vacation for next year includes San Antonio for a Missions game, Round Rock for an Express game, Frisco for a Rough Riders game, Oklahoma City and back to Midland.

    When I mentioned kids getting autographs, here's one that my son is most proud of. A couple of years ago we went to Midland to watch the Rockhounds play the Little Rock Travelers. The Travelers are the Double A club for the L.A. Angels. The first autograph he go was Mike Trout, two weeks before he was called up to the Majors when Torii Hunter went down with an injury.

    Mike Trout before he was a star. This is just a snap shot I took. My son, in the blue jersey, is waiting for an autograph.
    Another attempt at some baseball
    263110_1440172261565_3303552_n by KHarmon1971, on Flickr

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •