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Thread: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

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    DeKa77's Avatar
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    How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    We would like to have Max DoF, especially, Portrait but get stuck at this. It is to deem that it is often apply for flowers or still objects ... Would like to have help anh share from CIC members.
    Is it Max DoF only for still objects ?
    Still Object

    How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    FYI : 1/500s @ F/19.0 @ 50mm @ ISO 640
    Last edited by DeKa77; 4th June 2012 at 11:20 AM.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Are you familiar with Hyperfocal tables?

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Thank Colin Southern.
    I have a little knowledge on hyperfocal tables but almost no experience use it in portrait !
    Would like to have CiC members share on this.
    Only flowers

    How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa77 View Post
    I have a little knowledge on hyperfocal tables but almost no experience use it in portrait !
    It's easy enough ... you just need to set (and lock) your focus at the hyperfocal distance, and then ensure that your subject is beyond the minimum in-focus distance.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    http://www.dofmaster.com/doftable.html
    You will find like anything else there is more to DOF than FL and distance .
    Light fall off is a big concern when doing a distance shot - like a flower that is across a ditch in shade .
    I have quite a few shots of catus fruit that suck . Any close enough for a good picture have been picked .
    The lens you use changes the shot to .
    At 17 mm my 17-55 is better than the 10-22 at 17 mm . The 10-22 is better at 22 mm than the 17-55 . This is at 3 and 5 feet from flower [ both lens in manual at f 5.6 , 1/250 - hand held ] [ maybe me ]
    Most of the time the hyper focal distance is just to far for me - for flowers I don't go over f 11 and prefer F 5.6 .
    Read the DOF chart above - bookmark above . 1st pick your camera , then lens . Now go down to the distance - look across to your F stop .
    You will notice a smaller FL gives more DOF . This mean you can shoot a flower at 20 mm , crop it and get better DOF than the same shot at 40 mm .
    Hopefully someone can explain better than me .

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    @ Thank Colin Southern . I'll try and have the result soon.
    @ Thank Tonyjr. FYI, the above flower is my shot.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    I like both shots but single flower better .
    I want all the DOF I can get .
    If I seem to be talking down to you , I am not . To many times I have wished for more info than was posted .
    I would rather people say " I knew that - than nobody told me "

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyjr View Post
    If I seem to be talking down to you , I am not . To many times I have wished for more info than was posted .
    I would rather people say " I knew that - than nobody told me "
    In that vein Roy, I feel the need to point out that there's no need to put a space before a full stop (or a comma, or inside of speech marks).

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    It's easy enough ... you just need to set (and lock) your focus at the hyperfocal distance, and then ensure that your subject is beyond the minimum in-focus distance.
    I have some doubts here. I've taken my camera with my lens (24-70 with distance scale (Let me know if i'm wrong).

    Set the exposure to f/11 search the table of HFD for the focal length of 24 let's say.
    Obtained the number.
    Set on that number manually and SURPRISE!!!!! Not in focus...neither the object at 5 m, nore the objects at 20.
    I've been observing that the maximum DOF is achieved between 3-infinite (lately i've read that at Canon's lens, the inifinte point is a little behind the infinity sign.

    So, I'm not so convinced about HFD.
    Last edited by Dave Humphries; 6th June 2012 at 06:15 PM.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    anita
    1st - I am glad I am not the only one with double posting problems .
    2nd - I am glad I am not the only one with Hyper focal chart problems .
    Most of my shots are of either flowers / parties or group shots . I use the 10-22 for landscapes where I want infinity and parties or group shots where the 17-55 is not wide enough .
    http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/calc.htm
    I finally ended up using the DOF charts .
    http://www.dofmaster.com/doftable.html
    Both of these charts / table / estimators are general purpose not for zooms , wide angle or macro lenses . They are mainly for the older primes . Lenses have changed a bunch since these charts were made from formulas .
    Since I use canon , little things like IS , Focus limiters , Manual - AF and even the number of glass elements all come into play . For anyone familiar with canon lenses - I have the Ef lens works from the 1st [ I think black one ] lens work II and 2 of the III versions - most of the books don't help me but there is some info in them I can and do use .
    It would be nice if there was a chart thing where I could plug in different settings for a canon lens and get correct info .
    Colin Southern -
    I know my grammar is really bad , I rely a lot on spell and grammar check . They both put a period to close to last letter for me . The hyphens , back slashes , quotation marks - I put mainly for other languages , they break up the statements so they are easier to translate . I get facebook messages from Mexico , Spain and Italy at least once a month . Translation sometimes is not very good .

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Thank Colin. Following are what we've deemed to know about hyperfocal distance -Agreed with Tonny, hyperfocal distance is only manually check with old lenses and we could apply this for latest lenses.
    1/ Checking with 50mm@f1.4 (AI) : If the object is at 5m ( your focus ) and our camera is set at f/16 , the hyperfocal distance is from near 3m to infinity.
    2/ Checking with 35mm@f2.8 : If the object is also at 5 m and f/5.6, the hyperfocal distance is from about 2.5m to infinity.
    And If the object is at 5m and f/16, the hyperfocal distance is from about 1.2m to behind infinity = infinity.
    Thank all for share, once again.
    FYI : I used to have my first Canon camera since 1970.
    Last edited by DeKa77; 6th June 2012 at 05:17 PM.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Quote Originally Posted by anita View Post
    I have some doubts here. I've taken my camera with my lens (24-70 with distance scale (Let me know if I'm wrong).

    Set the exposure to f/11 search the table of HFD for the focal length of 24 let's say.
    Obtained the number.
    Set on that number manually and SURPRISE!!!!! Not in focus...neither the object at 5 m, nore the objects at 20.
    I've been observing that the maximum DOF is achieved between 3-infinite (lately i've read that at Canon's lens, the inifinte point is a little behind the infinity sign.

    So, I'm not so convinced about HFD.
    Hi Ana,

    At 24mm and f/11, almost everything ought to be sharp!

    There has to be another explanation here; two possibilities come to mind;
    a) you might be accidentally setting the focus distance at 3 feet (about 1m) on lens, when 3m was intended, or
    b) the blurring is due to some other reason like camera shake because of too low a shutter speed at f/11 in low light

    Perhaps if you could post an example shot, with EXIF data intact, we could help narrow things down.

    Hope that helps,

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    It would be nice to figure out for me to. I don't remember what the problem was, just that the HPD thing did not work. This was taking shots of Cactus fruit in high desert country anywhere from 10 feet to maybe 30 feet in a moving car. Most of time the things I want are in very hard to reach places that that people / animals cannot reach. People pick the fruit / flower and either eat or sell.
    Last edited by Colin Southern; 8th June 2012 at 04:42 AM.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Setting and Locking the Lens at the Hyperfocal Distance, or at any particular Distance for Zone Focussing, does NOT necessarily mean that the Photographer uses the Distance Scales on the Lens.

    Especially for modern Lenses and DLSR cameras and also especially for Zoom Lenses, using the Distance Scale on the Lens is quite difficult and also not accurate: because, firstly the numerals on the scale have a thickness and secondly the compass of the focus turret is usually quite small and as such it is very difficult to ascertain from the Distance Scale where any distance exactly lays, as it approaches ∞. Also, perculiar to Zoom Lenses - very few keep Focus throughout the zoom range.


    A good methodology for setting the lens at any exact focus distance:
    Is to switch the lens to Manual Focus and to use Manual Focus with Conformation and lock focus on a contrast edge at the pre determined distance.


    A good method for Locking the lens at that predetermined distance:
    Is to use a small piece of GAF tape on the Focus Turret, locking it to the Lens Barrel: alternatively on some Lenses the Lens Hood can be reverse mounted such that the Focus Turret cannot be easily accessed or bumped.


    For Zone Focussing:
    AFTER using the manual focussing technique described above, a good method is to use clear Cellotape as an overlay on the Focus Turret Window and use Back Market pen to make the necessary alignment marks where an easily discernible numeral should position.

    For example, below: this 35mm Lens is set with three different Zone Focus Ranges. All that is required is to align the white numeral “1” (which is easily seen), directly under one of the three black lines depending upon which Zone Focus required.

    How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    WW

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Quote Originally Posted by William W View Post
    Setting and Locking the Lens at the Hyperfocal Distance, or at any particular Distance for Zone Focussing, does NOT necessarily mean that the Photographer uses the Distance Scales on the Lens.
    Thanks Bill.

    Sorry folks, I'm letting a few assumptions creep in here.

    When I said "you just need to set (and lock) your focus at the hyperfocal distance" I was meaning to AF something at that distance, and then switch the lens to MF (being careful not to move the focus ring).

    Personally, I use distance scales to tell me approx how far away something is - I never EVER use it for focusing (shuddering at the thought!)

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    You're welcome: I knew exactly what you meant and I knew that you would not use the Distance Scale on the Lens for Focussing.

    I just noticed the way the comments were being interpreted, before you did - that's unusual: and while I was at it I chose to add Zone Focussing Technique for those who might be interested.

    Have a great day, regards

    Bill

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    double post - my server went haywire . . . urhg!

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Thanks, kind of says I was not doing something wrong.
    HFD is one of those things that kind of went to the section of brain where flash cubes are stored.
    I used to try to use it for flash back in film days. Never had much luck with it.
    From experience, I know with the 17-55 - if I focus on earring, the nose should be aright. [this works on my 28, 35 and 50 mm primes also but not on the 180.]
    I do appreciate the posts trying to help and if I do get it some day, it will probably be a sum of everything I have read.
    The things posted do help - if for nothing more than the added web sites for info and reference.
    If it means anything, when I post, sometimes it is not posted till after I go away and come back, sometimes it is double posted - so I copy to clip board go away and come back to check before I post to a different one.
    Last edited by Colin Southern; 8th June 2012 at 04:41 AM.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    DKA77:

    I don't know if this is worth mentioning but, your terminology is a bit skewed. As in:

    "Checking with 50mm@f1.4 (AI) : If the object is at 5m ( your focus ) and our camera is set at f/16 , the hyperfocal distance is from near 3m to infinity"

    The hyperfocal distance is not a "from - to" distance. The hyperfocal distance is one set distance for any focal length; f/stop and format size combination in which, when this distance is focused on, you are within acceptable focus from half of that distance focused on to infinity.

    When you mentoned, "the hyperfocal distance is from near 3m to infinity", you are actually referring to depth of field.

    Hyperfocal Distance was once used frequently in shooting, especially when we shot with press cameras which had a pretty unbelieveably poor rangefinder setup. The old story of f/11 at the hyperfocal distance was the common way to pre set the camera.

    If was also used with non-rangefinder cameras of any type, including 35mm cameras.

    As mentioned, older prime lenses with manual focus often had the main focus point as a line or an arrow which coincided with the distance scale. There were then usually additional lines with a double set of f/stops. Place one of these f/stops (which of course would coincide with the f/stop you were using) on the infinity mark, you would be within acceptable focus from infinity to where the second f/number coinsided with the distance scale. This was often used to prefocus lenses to catch moving subjects.

    When you shot with fixed lens cameras, the distance mark and the sets of f/stop markings were sometimes on the camera body and the distance scale on the lens rotated as you focused. The principle of placing on f/stop mark on infinity and then reading the closest point of focus from the second f/marking was the same.

    However, when through the lens reflex cameras became popular and expecially since zoom lenses became popular, the use of hyperfocal distance in focusing your camera has greatly lessened to a point in which I never use it.

    Note: I do occasionally use the focus preview button which stops down the lens to allow viewing of what is in actual focus. However, I find the viewing to be very dim when I am shooting at smaller f/stops.

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    Re: How to create Max DoF pics especially for Portrait

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyjr View Post
    Colin Southern -
    I know my grammar is really bad , I rely a lot on spell and grammar check . They both put a period to close to last letter for me . The hyphens , back slashes , quotation marks - I put mainly for other languages , they break up the statements so they are easier to translate . I get facebook messages from Mexico , Spain and Italy at least once a month . Translation sometimes is not very good .
    Hi Roy,

    I think your grammar is fine

    Interesting that you mention that spell & grammar checkers "put the period too close to the last letter for me" ...

    ... that's how periods (and commas) are used in the English language. I'm afraid that putting a space before them (and commas too) just looks "strange".

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