Color Change from tiff to jpg

[Gerry]

I use PS-CS3 and recently converted a file from Raw then edited and saved as tiff. In PS I saturated the sky a bit and added cyan to counteract the red in it. After saving in tiff I converted to jpg using the image processor and the cyan-ish sky changes back to blue with the red in it. When the thumbnail shows up after being saved as jpg it has the new cyan-ish sky but when I click on it, it changes back to blue sky with red in it. I have never had this happen before and I convert from tiff to jpg all the time. I re-saved and re-converted a zillion times with all kinds of different configurations, etc., re-set my preferences in both bridge and PS, etc. Does anyone know why this is happening? I save all with Adobe RGB color space. Thanks for any help.

Gerry

[Colin Southern]

Hi Gerry,

Are you trying to save the converted file in CMYK format by any chance?

[Gerry]

No. The original tiff is saved in RGB and the resulting jpg is in RGB. When converting from tiff, the image processor does not give the option of changing the color mode.

[Colin Southern]

If you added the cyan via a layer, are you flattening the *.TIFF image prior to saving as a *.JPG (if not then I'm thinking that the layer may be getting discarded).

[Gerry]

Yes, I tried that but just in case, I tried it again just now with a newly saved copy. No luck. I can't help thinking it is not completely saving the tiff file, but it shows up as saved properly with the cyan sky in bridge, so that can't be it. I can't think of any setting in my preferences that would cause this but I re-set all my preferences to default anyway. Very strange. I really don't like this lack of control over my edits. Any other thoughts?

[Raycer]

sounds totally weird.
have you try to save the pics in sRGB? maybe the picture viewer can't display aRGB correctly.

also, do you have the soft proof in PS on or off?

[Gerry]

Thanks a lot, Raycer. That worked! Now, that spawns a lot of questions on my part! If I ask too many, please let me know and I will research all on my own.

1) Since, as I understand it, sRBG is meant for web publication use only, my online stock agencies require RGB mode uploads. Is sRGB usable for multiple use applications, i.e. print, etc.? When I look at the saved jpg, it still reads as a RGB file in the exif. 2) My PROOF SETTINGS is set to WORKING CMYK. If I change that to the only other option that makes sense, MONITOR RGB, it changes the cyan-ish sky back to the blue-ish red sky on the image in the work space before it is saved. If I save it with the setting left at MONITOR RGB, the cyan-ish sky is lost forever. 3) My COLOR SETTINGS work space setting was set at sRGB throughout all this. I changed it to Adobe RGB (1998) just because that seemed "more right" although this setting doesn't seem to have an impact upon the original problem that started this prolonged agony. 4) Since It seems I had not saved the original colors as set in my workflow, do I have to check each image following saving it to see if it saved the color correctly and, if not, go back and re-save changing the color mode to sRGB or do I leave that box checked (save as sRGB) forever? This doesn't seem right at all considering what sRGB is meant for. I don't ever remember this problem. 5) What is "picture viewer" vs. Bridge/PS/Browser software? Is something improperly set in another program/viewer?

I really appreciate the help with this. Thanks.

[Raycer]

Hi Gerry,

Seems like a colour management day here at CiC. Please see Sean’s tutorial.

I use sRGB for my final product as many programs (which I referred to as picture viewer earlier) doesn’t display aRGB properly - for example, MS Picture manager, and Internet Explorer. And if I include digital files as part of my product, I warn my client that their monitors need to be calibrated to see the pictures properly.

Just wondering, when’s the last time the monitor that you are using got calibrated?

Ray

[Colin Southern]

1) Since, as I understand it, sRBG is meant for web publication use only, my online stock agencies require RGB mode uploads. Is sRGB usable for multiple use applications, i.e. print, etc.? When I look at the saved jpg, it still reads as a RGB file in the exif.

Hi Gerry,

Different devices (monitors, printers etc) have different output gamuts - sRGB can be more or less throught of as being the lowest common denominator - so by sticking to sRGB your unlikely to have any "surprises" come print time.

The downside of sRGB is that you MAY end up clipping some colours that would otherwise be printable, although in reality, most people aren't used to looking for these colours anyway (and thus don't miss them) and - on a side note - unless you have the likes of a $4000 Eizo monitor, your existing monitor is unlikely to be able to display most of these extra colours anyway (so to a degree your "working blind").

2) My PROOF SETTINGS is set to WORKING CMYK. If I change that to the only other option that makes sense, MONITOR RGB, it changes the cyan-ish sky back to the blue-ish red sky on the image in the work space before it is saved. If I save it with the setting left at MONITOR RGB, the cyan-ish sky is lost forever.

Soft-proofing is only applicable if your trying to get an idea of what your image may look like when printed - and to do that you need to specify the printer profile for the device and paper you intend using. Even then it's only an approximation as your still going to be limited to your monitors sRGB gamut. Your probably better off not using it.

Having your set to CMYK is totally inappropriate, unless your outputting to commercial offset type printers; Setting it to your monitor profile is also incorrect as Photoshop does this anyway, so in essence you'd be doing a double-conversion.

3) My COLOR SETTINGS work space setting was set at sRGB throughout all this. I changed it to Adobe RGB (1998) just because that seemed "more right" although this setting doesn't seem to have an impact upon the original problem that started this prolonged agony.

Yours is a common thought - unfortunately, the practice usually doesn't fit the theory in this respect. Another way of looking at it is to remember that "the bigger the colourspace, the bigger the scope for going out of gamut unintentionally".

4) Since It seems I had not saved the original colors as set in my workflow, do I have to check each image following saving it to see if it saved the color correctly and, if not, go back and re-save changing the color mode to sRGB or do I leave that box checked (save as sRGB) forever? This doesn't seem right at all considering what sRGB is meant for. I don't ever remember this problem.

If the images are captured as JPGs with Adobe RGB profile then you'd need to click EDIT -> CONVERT TO PROFILE. If your shooting RAW then it's just as easy to tell the RAW converter to spit them out in sRGB right from the start, although it's safer to use 16 bit mode if your doing any large corrections in Photoshop "proper" (ie outside of the RAW converter) ... then you'll need to change back to 8 bit before you can save as a JPEG.

5) What is "picture viewer" vs. Bridge/PS/Browser software? Is something improperly set in another program/viewer?

Picture Viewer is a Microsoft image viewing utility - bit it's not Colour Management aware - so your better off using Bridge / Photoshop / LightRoom etc for viewing in a colour managed environment (mandatory if your in anything other than sRGB). If you stick to sRGB and your monitor has correctly calibrated (as opposed to profiled) black and white points then you won't see much of a change between colour-managed and non-colour-managed environments with sRGB.

A couple of things that might help ...

1. You REALLY need to get this book - get it - work through it - and when your finished you'll be the one answering these types of questions instead of asking them

2. We discussed the sRGB thing a while ago here - you might find this interesting.

Hope this helps!

[Gerry]

Thanks, again, Raycer. I will check out Sean's tutorial. I'm pretty confused at the moment. I do a DIY calibration of my monitor every blue moon...don't know when since I did it. Will have to check that out, however, my current problem can't be that since the image displays one color then changes to another. Very wierd, I've got some homework to do. Thx., again.

[Gerry]

Whew, thanks a lot, Colin. I really appreciate your in-depth reply. That spawns even more questions, but I will hit THE BOOK and read the thread and work it all out for myself. Thanks again for all the expertise.

[Colin Southern]

Whew, thanks a lot, Colin. I really appreciate your in-depth reply. That spawns even more questions, but I will hit THE BOOK and read the thread and work it all out for myself. Thanks again for all the expertise.

Hi Gerry,

No worries

Feel free to ask any questions you like - but to be honest, it'll all fall into place a lot easier if you go through "the book" (it's a far more structured way of learning).

[Raycer]

wow, thanks Colin,

Gerry,
I have tried DIY monitor calibration before. Sometime I have wasted an entire morning and still can't get it right. Maybe you are better at it than I'm... which I'm sure isn't hard.

I got an eye-one since then. It makes a huge difference. It actually write down an ICC file for your monitor on your computer so Photoshop knows what it is showing. And with the correct ICC profile from the printer, the picture shown on the monitor is almost the same as the print.

Keep in mind that LCD or CRT monitors drift in colour and may show colour differently under different light conditions. Depending on how exact you want, you may want to re-calibrate the monitor before you start your project.

Cheers
Ray