Upgrade to a Canon

[Cindi]

I am a photography student. Began taking classes with a fujifilm compact digital. Images were OK, as you know. Bought a Canon Rebel XS about a year ago and looking to buy an upgrade. The Rebel T3i is getting good reviews from students and prosumers alike. I like the size of it, and all of my lenses will work with it. But is it too close to the Rebel XS or should I go for the 60D or 7D. Really confused. Currently I'm collecting L lenses. 100 mm macro and a 24-70. Any suggestions/advice would be appreciated.

[herbert]

Hi Cindi,

You have been using your camera long enough to know how it performs. I suggest you try and make a list of where it does not perform well for you. Then go through the specifications of the potential cameras and see the features they offer in addition to the camera you have. You can then make up your mind on what camera is right for you.

For example the 7d has a better focus system and viewfinder than the 60d but it does not have a programable limit on auto ISO and no tilting LCD screen. This is just a quick example of differences that may lead to a decision.

If you post up some more info on the type of photography you do and how you feel your camera limits you then people will be happy to give some advice. We have users of all sorts of cameras on this site and people will be happy to help.

As a final word, just be sure you need an upgrade and do not just want one. A new camera may not improve your photography. It may cost you a lot of money to find that out. However a new camera may deliver a significant improvement in usability and performance that is worth spending twice as much as it actually costs.

Regards,

Alex

[enaiman]

I guess it depends of "how serious" you want to get involved in photography and if you really need some features found in the expensive models.
From this comparison: http://www.dpreview.com/products/com...ts=canon_eos7d you can see that the 3 models are pretty close im many aspects but the price difference between them is striking: $4-500 for T3i, $1000-1200 for D60 and $1500+ for 7D.
You need to consider if you really need the 19 AF points of 70D or 9AF is enough. Also, the continuous drive (is 3 FPS enough or you need better?) Maximum shutter speed: is 1/4000 enough or you think you'll need 1/8000? There are also some other aspects - you'll need to have a close look and to decide in the end how much you want to pay.

To sum it up: The Rebel 3Ti gives a very good ratio of price/performance. Given the low price, you might very well go for the T3i and replace it in one year or two with a better model.

But that's only my opinion

[Cindi]

Thanks, Alex. You are absolutely correct. . . do I NEED an upgrade or do I WANT one? Perhaps I'll just stay with my xs until I get through the photoshop class. Honestly, I'm really big on the images I take without all the fanfare of photoshop. Am I being unreasonable do you think? Younger students seem to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE photoshop. I'm a little bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my images and if my shoot is properly in the camera, what do I need photoshop for??? I can enhance and do minor adjustments in iPhoto if that is necessary. I wrestle with myself about this all the time. The camera I am using is definitely an entry-level camera (15 years old and up). I am way beyond that age, but still an intermediate photographer. Maybe I should stop looking at all the websites and reviews and just continue shooting????
Thanks again.
Cindi

[Poljazz]

Another choice is to buy a used 5D. Full frame, great image quality. Some of your lenses might not fit though.

[russellsnr]

Hi, I second what Poljazz says. I went from a 40D to a used 1Ds Mark II (full frame heavy camera) but the way I looked at it when they first came out they cost in the 5 to 6 thousand dollar region you can get one second hand with a low shutter count in the $1000 mark if you search around or the 5D mk II. I may be wrong but I believe Canon are bringing out a new 5D Mk ?? so people will (human nature) want to upgrade and this is a great time for you to upgrade to FF. I for one will not go back to the 1.6 crop.
Good luck
Russ

[herbert]

Hi Cindi,

Photoshop is a powerful tool. You do not have to use it all. However it does help to know how an image can be altered after image capture. See it as a means to develop your vision of how the scene looked to you.

There is an argument for not over processing an image. The usual suspects are removing and moving objects, changing colours, changing backgrounds. If you want to represent the scene perfectly then these tools are not allowed. However if used well it will only be you that know they have been used. It is like creating a painting, do you want to show everything in the scene, only the best parts of the scene or just use the scene as an inspiration for your own imagination.

Note that when you change to black and white in your camera, alter the exposure for extreme effect and adjust sharpening you are making changes in camera that others are happy to defer to later in photoshop. Also note that the raw data that is captured by the camera always needs some alteration. Learning how to do a raw conversion is perhaps the compromise between extreme photoshopping and no photoshopping.

Trying for the best picture in camera is a good principle to work on. Pro shooters often shoot jpeg so that the images can be used immediately by their clients. However this does not mean that they don't also save the raw image too so they can tweak it later.

As to your camera upgrade know that you do not have to rush into this. Speak to others on your course and what they like about their camera. Perhaps borrow a new model or rent one for the weekend. Go to the local camera store and try the feel of the camera in your hands and the control layout. You may find that the differences eventually give you enough reasons to upgrade.

Alex

[Cindi]

I guess it depends of "how serious" you want to get involved in photography and if you really need some features found in the expensive models.
From this comparison: http://www.dpreview.com/products/com...ts=canon_eos7d you can see that the 3 models are pretty close im many aspects but the price difference between them is striking: $4-500 for T3i, $1000-1200 for D60 and $1500+ for 7D.
You need to consider if you really need the 19 AF points of 70D or 9AF is enough. Also, the continuous drive (is 3 FPS enough or you need better?) Maximum shutter speed: is 1/4000 enough or you think you'll need 1/8000? There are also some other aspects - you'll need to have a close look and to decide in the end how much you want to pay.

To sum it up: The Rebel 3Ti gives a very good ratio of price/performance. Given the low price, you might very well go for the T3i and replace it in one year or two with a better model.

But that's only my opinion

[Cindi]

Thanks for your help. Kind of like the minimalist approach with the T3i. Lots of students use it and their images are fantastic. Something more to think about.
Regards,
Cindi

[Librarian]

Hi Cindi,

Photoshop is a powerful tool. You do not have to use it all. However it does help to know how an image can be altered after image capture. See it as a means to develop your vision of how the scene looked to you.

Alex

Hi Cindi - a cheaper mac based alternative is Pixelmator you can do a fair amount of manipulation with it.


Interesting to see the comments on Canon. I've always been snap happy - even more so with the advent of digital but the family have decreed that I need to learn a bit about 'Photography' - to that end I am purchasing an used 500D kit - basic & 55-250 lenses. I've just signed up here and hope to gain from both the tutorials and the forums. Good luck with your studies!

Ook

[Geoff F]

Firstly, Cindi, exactly what sort of photography do you do, and what lenses do you have/need in the near future. Do you have or need a longer zoom for example?

Providing you aren't experiencing any restrictions which are caused by your current camera body I would regard purchasing lenses as the priority. Good lenses, particularly L series will work with any future body. And, basically, a camera body is just a box which holds the lens and a sensor.

However, with regard to camera bodies, the next question is, have you tried the larger and heavier range, like the 40D to 7D for example. Let's forget the really expensive stuff for now.

If so, did you find them more difficult to hold, particularly with a heavy lens; which gets heavier as the day progresses.

Personally, I prefer a solid chunky camera but I know that some people, particularly those with small hands find them too excessive to be comfortable.

However, when my 40D stopped working I had to make a decision. I wasn't keen on the 60D which, for me, just didn't seem like a natural successor to the 40D. An 'unused' 50D was the front runner, even though it was out of production.

But finally, I found an excellent price on a 7D and went for that.

Speaking personally, the smaller 000D models just don't handle or operate as comfortably and simply as their chunkier cousins. But, and it is a big but, I am happy with their size and weight while, as I mentioned, they can be too big and feel uncomfortable for some people.

Incidentally, I eventually sent my old 40D away for a repair estimate; then spent £140 to have it as a second camera, which I thought was worth while.

[Cindi]

Thanks, Geoff. I have been purchasing lenses, rather than looking at new bodies. "Don't worry so much about the body; pay more attention to the glass", is my mantra of late. Ever so carefully I have been choosing lenses which will also work well with whatever body comes next, so I do agree with you wholeheartedly on that notion. My little rebel xs has no stopped working, not even close, takes a great shot with my 24-70, 100 mm macro (both L lenses). Even the kit lens has come in handy with a cheapy polaroid fisheye extension ($42 usa). Worked real well in an experimental photography class I recently completed. Ridiculously, I'm sure you'll agree, other people's opinions of the xs (it's old, it's outdated, they don't even make it anymore) leave me wavering on my decisions to purchase a new body even though there's nothing wrong with the one I have!! Am I being silly? I'm wondering how different the t3i is compared to what I have. And, with my lack of experience, would I even notice if it was different? And then there's the question of moving on up to a FF body. Do I jump from the xs to a FF body? Or do I slowly upgrade by moving to the t3i as the next step in my assumed career? Confusing to say the least. I am sure of one thing: all the thousands of American dollars I am spending on carefully chosen lenses is not going to waste. It's the next level for a camera body that has me baffled. I like the size of the xs, I'm not a big person, so it feels comfortable to me. Knowing that Canon doesn't make the xs any longer makes me want to keep it anyway. I kind of like having electronics that are obsolete. But. . . . what next? A friend of mine bought the 7D and later admitted that he'd wished he'd gone for the 60D instead. I don't want to make that mistake again, as I bought the xs just as the t3i was hitting the shelves, unbeknownst to me. Duhhhhhhh. . . . . .
Thanks for your input. Again, I agree 100% about the glass.
Cindi

[Cindi]

Hi Herbert. Taking a photoshop class right now. Have already taken two levels of Corel Painter, which was a royal pain and a very sensitive piece of software. Those classes were prerequisites for taking photoshop. Because of my prior knowledge of Corel, photoshop seems a little less difficult but I doubt I'll learn everything in 15 weeks. Changing things up in photoshop, including backgrounds and such, doesn't really interest me but this is part of my photography course and I am having fun with it, even though I'm not sure, yet, that the quicker, easier, iPhoto tweaking of my images to enhance, increase saturation, etc. isn't more of what I'd use on a regular basis. I don't want to do graphic design, after all, I just want to shoot as near to perfect images as I can. Will let you know how this class goes. I already know that graphics comes into play here as several of our assignments include movie posters, dvd covers, book covers, t-shirt design, etc.

[Cindi]

Already have photoshop installed on the mac. There's lots of software out there that can be used in lieu of photoshop but that is the one that we students are learning, along with Corel Painter XII.

Everyone here is very helpful. This is my favorite photography site of all. . . . and there are many of them as well!!! You will love it here. There's no judgement at all, even if you are new to photography. And plenty of talented and well qualified people hang out here.

Good luck to you. Let me know how you are doing.

Cindi

[enaiman]

You know, Cindy, sometime being too 'rational' is not so good.
Indeed, many old cameras perform very well today - an 8 MP camera will take very good photos and a 2 inch LCD screen is still good but if you wait for dramatic improvements before buying the new one, it might be several years because the progress is quite slow.
So, I would say - do as you feel like but don't wait too long

[Geoff F]

You say, Cindi, that a friend purchased a 7D then thought the 60D would be better.

In my case it was the other way around. While still shooting with my 40D a friend purchased the 60D. He is happy with it but I thought it was actually a step backwards from the 40D.

After getting a 7D I found, like many people, that it was needlessly complicated for the way I work. However, after a bit of reading, I realised that I could disable most of what I didn't like and in effect convert it into a 'supercharged 40D' which now works fine for me.

But in your case, if you are determined to get an upgraded body, I repeat my thoughts about trying before purchase, if possible, and going mostly by the feel of the camera in your hands. Including whether the extra weight would prove a disadvantage.

I would certainly recommend a 7D or even a secondhand 40/50D for ease of operation and quick adjustments.

A full frame camera can also be a step backwards, depending on your photographic style. In my case, for example, I am always trying to push a zoom a little bit further, particularly for wildlife, so the crop sensor suits me perfectly.

However, some portrait or landscape people will see things differently.

[Cindi]

Thanks, Geoff. Appreciate your input. You would think this decision will determine the outcome of the USA economy!!!

[anita]

If it's not too late, here is my opinion.

1. FIRST and most important you should play with them a little bit, try them to see how they work.
2. I'm not recommending you to upgrade :'(. Why? Simply, I had a Canon 30D. I bought it wanting to have a good camera when i start taking photos. After a while i realised my photos weren't as gorgeous as you've seen on magazines or ....offff...
It's the CAMERA!!!! So i sell my camera and got another one, "BETTER", 5dmII. Same results, maybe a little bit better in terms of image resolution and details. SO!!!! MY ADVICE, don't upgrade until you've not "understood" fully your old camera. I've seen super great PHOTOS made with iphone or point and shoot cameras.

3. MOST of all beautigul pictures/ALL OF them are post-processed, that means that after you take your shot, come home, process it with Photoshop/Corel/Software to arrive at a satisfactory result.

Hope it helps anybody.

[rpcrowe]

Cindi,

You have received some excellent advice above...

Here is just something to add to the above all the comments are my own opinion so I won't puntuate each of them with "IMO"....

An editing program of some type is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for the best quality digital imagery. Photoshop CS5, Lightroom3 or Photoshop Elements PSE-10 are not crutches to bail out lazy photographers; they are part and parcel of the digital workflow. You simply cannot get the best imagery out of a DSLR without sharpening. In camera sharpening just doesn't work as well as does custom sharpening using CS5, PSE-10 or Lightroom 3. If you are shooting JPEG and letting your camera do the required sharpening, you simply are not getting the best quality imagery - even though you are extremely careful and competent about taking the picture. I like the Adobe products because they are the standard of the industry and if you learn to use one product, such as the realtively inexpensive PSE-10 (I got mine for $50 USD at COSTCO on sale) it is very easy to use either of the other two adobe products. Additionally many photographers use one of the three products and can provide feedback if you have problems.

I personally like the x0D and 7D cameras better than the Rebel series cameras because I consider the control systems on these cameras superior and easier to use. I also liked shooting with the slightly larger cameras when using a 24-70L lens. They just balanced beter for me.

Finally, when you get around to selecting your new camera, I suggest that if at all possible, you retain your present camera. Shooting with two cameras is great and the second camera is a great insurance policy against camera malfunction.

Have fun and keep shooting!