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Thread: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

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    epmi314's Avatar
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    DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    If you haven't checked out www.stuckincustoms.com then you are missing something especially on the subject of HDR. Trey Ratcliff has created some wonderful images but his comments on the DSLR being a dying breed of camera and the prediction of sorts that there will be some push back from togs is interesting.

    Check out the video and the site. It is all pretty intersesting but his comments at 35:25 of the video ( http://www.stuckincustoms.com/2012/0...re-the-future/ ) are most specific to the title.

    Cheers!

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    I knew the site from looking at he did his HDR.
    The way he talks about 3rd generation cameras makes sense in itself. They will evolve and we probably can expect quality comparable to that found in DSLRs from them in a couple of years (or shorter).
    For the moment I think there are still too many restrictions, so I keep using the DSLR, but although I really love using it now I remember a time when I still used the old analogue SLRs and hated all that weight I had to carry around.

    Back then the solution (at least partly) was to carry a Nikon 35TI, which in terms of quality was comparable to what the SLR produced.
    So far I haven't been able to find a similar digital replacement for the DSLR.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Peter

    up to ISO 800 the micro 4/3 cameras are capable of acting as a dSLR. I actually prefer the Panny GF1 with a 20f1.7 lens to a Nikon D80 (which I ought to sell as I never use it). You do get used to compoisng via a screen. if you want to add an EVF they get a little pricey.

    cheers

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Since the introduction of the Sony Nex 7 I'm seriously considering to replace my DSLR stuff for this one.
    It has EVF build in and a hot shoe. there are M adapters available to use high-end lenses like Zeiss or Leica.
    Sensor size is APSC.
    The fact reduce the huge amount of weight around because of the bulky DSLR's and lenses is a main reason for me. (Suffering with Back issues :-( )

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    I think his point is interesting that he won't be investing any more money in his current Nikon lineup. He likely has every part of the Nikon kit anyone would dream about so I'm sure he can wait a few years for the 3'rd Generation of cameras to mature and the prices to settle.

    Many photographers refused for years to embrace digital and when you have TLC (time, labor & cash) invested in your current kit, you're not likely to be too quick to dump it and head off for an immature product. On the other hand, it's not wise to bury your head in the sand and not keep tabs on the product changes either.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Over the last five weeks (the busy Christmas period in other words) my store sold 1 more DSLR than we did Compact System Cameras. That is quite a statement on the way the public is turning against the traditional upgrade path from a compact camera....and a good idea at how many DSLR shooters are adding a CSC to their kit.

    Our biggest sellers are not the NEX range with their APSC sensors meaning that sensor size isn't important to most people. In fact the vast majority of the sales went to people who couldn't give two hoots about the sensor size they just wanted better quality than their current compacts and a smaller camera than the DSLR's their friends have bought in the past.

    I know people on here who are into the pixel level quality and those who understand the relationship between sensor size and depth of field will want a NEX but to be fair most the CSC's aren't really aimed at you. What really caught the imagination of people coming in to look at what was on offer the most was the Panasonic GF3 and the Nikon 1 as these are truly tiny system cameras. Neither have a viewfinder but the customers involved were used to using the rear screens on their current compacts and their phones so didn't even care. What wowed them was the amazing performance - the Nikon J1 can rock along at 10fps or shoot full HD while taking 10mp pictures at the same time, my Pro Nikon body can't come close to that - the beautiful design, they look nice whereas most DSLR's are pretty ugly if we are honest and the fact that they are designed to be simple - another down point to most DSLR's that have been driven by a magazine/internet want for thousand of buttons. Buttons that, if we're honest again, very few people actually need or even understand once they have them.

    Take the entry point into a DSLR system of about 400.

    You could get a Canon EOS1100D - 12mp - 720 Movies - 2.7" LCD - 3fps...2 if you shoot RAW
    or
    You could get a Panasonic DMCG3 - 16mp - Full HD 1080P Movies - 3" Multi Angle Touch Screen - 4fps

    The Panny is smaller, lighter has an Intelligent Auto button on the top to make taking a grab shot faster, the 'kit' lens is better quality, you get I.S. as standard, it will focus anywhere on the screen not just at 9 tiny points. I could go on but you get the picture. What do you think most people buy?

    Ps. Before you start - you can't buy a Nikon D3100 for love-nor-money at the moment as the factory was wiped out in the floods but even that, which wipes the floor with the 1100D, loses out to the G3 when shown side-by-side.


    Like it or not the days of the entry even and a range or two above DSLR's are numbered.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by black pearl View Post
    Over the last five weeks (the busy Christmas period in other words) my store sold 1 more DSLR than we did Compact System Cameras.
    That is a fascinating analysis and commentary, Robin. Thank you for taking the time to set it out.

    Where will be in 10 - 15 years time?

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Hi Robin

    interesting piece

    the problem with the NEX is to me the lens. The body looks svelte but the lenses are too big. the new zeiss 24 1.8 may be amazing but too big for most people.

    The beauty of the m4/3 cameras to me are the small pancake primes. then again you can get a 100-300 with the g3 and have a compact lightweight telephoto option.

    I appreciate that the 16mp sensor isn't as good as say that in a k-5 or a d7000 but for most people its good enough.

    the nikon v1 produces similar image quality to the 12mp sensor in the e-p3 or GF1/3. what is amazing is that tiny telephoto! again for most people its good enough.

    you can walk around with the camera in your hand or jacket pocket and have a telephoto option as well. you can't do that with a dSLR!

    the new fuji system might be interesting tho. the lenses look interesting

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    I remember when there was really no choice in 35mm film cameras between the fairly high-grade rangefinder and single lens reflex cameras; and total junk. If you wanted decent quality you spent your money and purchased one of these more expensive and larger units. Otherwise, you used either a box-type camera or a disposable camera. Then fairly decent P&S cameras came on the market and people who wanted decent quality, but did not demand or need the utmost quality, selected and used these. They became the standard of 35mm photography because they were small, had completely automatic systems and had automated film advance and rewind However, serious photographers who shot 35mm film still used either rangefinder or SLR cameras.

    However, the general tendency in photography has been to reduce the size of equipment as technology allowed the use of smaller equipment and film sizes. I remember when professional photographers (with the exception of Leica toting photojournalists) considered 35mm as a hobby format, not a serious professional tool. "SERIOUS PHOTOGRAPHERS" shot with 8x10", 4x5" and medium formats. However as time progressed, 35mm evolved into a very competent tool in the hands of a good photographer.

    I think that we are at that stage in the evolution of digital photography wherein a person who desires very good quality imagery but, doesn't need the optimal quality of crop and full-frame DSLR cameras now has a choice between the larger DSLR cameras and the smaller 4/3 systems.

    I am sure that the 4/3 systems will continue to develop at least I think they will! I remember numerous formats in film which made a spash and then withered on the vine. However, I sincerely doubt that we will see a total demise of DSLR cameras. Perhaps, we will see folks purchasing 4/3 cameras who would now purchase entry level DSLR cameras such as the Rebels.

    I am sure that Canon has their eye on that portion of the market and I expect Canon to put its foot into the water soon...

    BTW: IMO, there is a point of diminishing return when it comes to camera size. The tiny cameras cannot be held as steady as the larger DSLR cameras which usually have the advantage of being pressed against ones forehead as well as being held by both hands. How often do we see a P&S photographer shooting with one hand like this? IMO, people will also casually handle the 4/3 system in much the same way...

    DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    I also do not expect the cell phone cameras to suppland the DSLR for serious photographers.
    Last edited by rpcrowe; 5th January 2012 at 07:18 PM.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    How often do we see a P&S photographer shooting with one hand like this? IMO, people will also casually handle the 4/3 system in much the same way...
    you can handle a m4/3 in the same way as you can a dSLR if you attach an EVF. with the V1 built in EVF you gravitate to using the EVF.

    HOWEVER recently I watched a group of young Japanese tourists. even those with dSLR's were using the screen and liveview. Perhaps viewfinders are a film hangover....

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by thequacksoflife View Post
    Hi Robin

    interesting piece

    the problem with the NEX is to me the lens. The body looks svelte but the lenses are too big. the new zeiss 24 1.8 may be amazing but too big for most people.
    Thats exactly Sony's problem in a 'compact' market. It has a larger sensor and therefore needs larger lenses, their new 55-200mm is as big as a Canon 55-200mm....whats the point in that.

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    Black Pearl's Avatar
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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    BTW: IMO, there is a point of diminishing return when it comes to camera size. The tiny cameras cannot be held as steady as the larger DSLR cameras which usually have the advantage of being pressed against ones forehead as well as being held by both hands. How often do we see a P&S photographer shooting with one hand like this? IMO, people will also casually handle the 4/3 system in much the same way...

    I also do not expect the cell phone cameras to suppland the DSLR for serious photographers.
    1. The vast majority of people who take pictures don't care - no that that makes it right but it is the way we are going so DSLR's will become less mainstream. To go further the DSLR market is lead by the top end Pro models.
    How long do you think the likes of press photographers will lug a ruddy great camera kit about when a smaller one that gives 'good enough' quality exists?

    2. A casually held CSC will still take a better picture than a tripod mounted, manually set, prime lensed, RAW set DSLR if the photographer is better. Gear and shooting style is not the most important factor.

    2. Not so long ago the 'serious amateur' swore that film was the only way to get a quality picture, digital was the devil and turned their noses up at early up takers in digital capture.........care to go back to shooting at a fixed ISO for 36 shots.....God...care to be limited to 36 shots full stop for that matter, wait a week to get your negs back, not be able to alter white balance......?

    The future has yet to be written and I would hate to predict its limits.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by black pearl View Post
    The future has yet to be written and I would hate to predict its limits.
    This looks like a camera from the future.

    Disclaimer: I do not work for Lytro.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Looks like Samsung have found a way of creating a shallow depth of field with small sensors by using two lenses. Hasn't been commercially applied yet but link to the article is here.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    I don't mind the size and weight of a pair of 1.6x cameras (I usually carry two) but, I can see how a lot of folks might be hesitant to carry the weight.

    My daughter thinks that even carrying a tiny P&S camera is too much gear. Instead she shoots her travel photos with her cell phone (although it amazes me that she can get it away from her ear long enough to shoot an image).
    Last edited by rpcrowe; 6th January 2012 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    My daughter thinks that even carrying a tiny P&S camera is too much gear. Instead she shoots her travel photos with her cell phone (although it amazes me that she can get it away from her ear long enough to shoot an image).
    Hands-free set

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    What an informative thread. Thanks! Robin, you're knowledge of the different models is really appreciated. I'm thinking that by the time I can afford a 70-200 f2.8 for my dslr, it may be redundant for my needs.

  18. #18
    rob marshall

    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Quote Originally Posted by black pearl View Post
    You could get a Panasonic DMCG3 - 16mp - Full HD 1080P Movies - 3" Multi Angle Touch Screen - 4fps

    The Panny is smaller, lighter has an Intelligent Auto button on the top to make taking a grab shot faster, the 'kit' lens is better quality, you get I.S. as standard, it will focus anywhere on the screen not just at 9 tiny points. I could go on but you get the picture. What do you think most people buy?

    Ps. Before you start - you can't buy a Nikon D3100 for love-nor-money at the moment as the factory was wiped out in the floods but even that, which wipes the floor with the 1100D, loses out to the G3 when shown side-by-side.


    Like it or not the days of the entry even and a range or two above DSLR's are numbered.
    I have a Panasonic G1 4/3 camera in addition to my Canon 5D Mk2. In terms of just holding it and using it, the G1 wins hands down. I don't want to get too carried away here, but it's a joy to use - it actually makes you feel more like a true photographer. There is just something so pleasing about its compact solid feel. I love the fact that you can switch on the rule-of-thirds grid to compose and shoot and to get the horizon/vertical level straight. I love the fact you can bend down to shoot a low-level flower using the flip screen. The 5D is equivalent to a 1950's Soviet tank rumbling through Red Square with the politburo of the old photography world standing on the balcony. Yes, it takes great pictures of very fine quality, but how often do you need that? If you are a press photographer, for example, why strangle yourself with all that heavy gear just to get a shot that will be printed on toilet paper?

    This shot was taken last autumn using the G1. I just had it printed to A3, and it looks superb. The thing about technology is that new technology is never quite trusted, while old technology has an aura of sentimental-memory attachment that in practice never lives up to what the new technology can do.

    DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff
    oiling the train by rob marshall images, on Flickr

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Wonderful shot Rob. I am glad this thread got some juices flowing. One thing that will never change is the fact that it takes a brain on the other side of the camera whatever camera technology might exist.

    It is stange as you mention the hold we have on old technology. Having just entered the DSLR world within the last year I don't want to see it go and am already wondering if I could be retro before mastering many aspects of the DSLR and PP skills.

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    Re: DSLRs a dying breed? Interesting video with Trey Ratcliff

    Funny no-one has mentioned 3D.

    Surely this is the next frontier in cameras.

    Fast forward to 50 years down the track, I'm sure photos of any description will seem an antiquated throwback to previous years.

    Then again, I think B&W photos have a resurgence of appeal with digital. Perhaps what we will see is the casual photographer moving to 3D pictures relegating photography back to an art from practiced by the few!

    Who knows? I am however looking forward to it.

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