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Thread: The Red Feather Duster

  1. #1
    FrankMi's Avatar
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    The Red Feather Duster

    I'm trying to work more in Lightroom for the post processing before doing the final layering work in Photoshop.

    I'm seeing any annoying issue that has just cropped up. When I post an image like this one that has bright reds and oranges to CiC using Tinypic, the image comes out brownish and muddy! I had to cancel a post to the Mini this morning for the same reason. The image looks normal on my screen until I do the upload, then it looks like the following. I checked PS and the Mode is set to RGB Color, 16 bit. Not sure what else could be causing this. Any ideas?

    The Red Feather Duster

    Celosia Plumosa

  2. #2

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Lovely image, like the vignette

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Frank, why not set a virtual copy in LR, and set your image to 8-bit sRGB when you upload it to the web? I'm not so sure how tinypic handle images but in Flickr I had issues when I accidentally kept a file in 16-bit and upload it. Just an idea though I am not so sure if this has some similar effect to your case with tinypic. All the images I'm sending here at CiC all converted files to 8-bit sRGB.

  4. #4
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Quote Originally Posted by jiro View Post
    Frank, why not set a virtual copy in LR, and set your image to 8-bit sRGB when you upload it to the web? I'm not so sure how tinypic handle images but in Flickr I had issues when I accidentally kept a file in 16-bit and upload it. Just an idea though I am not so sure if this has some similar effect to your case with tinypic. All the images I'm sending here at CiC all converted files to 8-bit sRGB.
    Hi Willie, I just ran several tests. although I've always used Tinypic at CiC, now, even reloading images that previously uploaded are looking muddy and dull. This is even happening on images that had not been touched since uploading to CiC last time. It appears that there may be a problem with my PC or with Tinypic. The images look perfect on the PC until I do the upload in Tinypic, then, the thumbnail in the Tinypic window is muddy even before I copy the link to the post.

    I changed the PS Image/Mode from 16 bits/channel to 8 bits/channel but it didn't make any difference, and it shouldn't have made a difference for previously loaded images.

    I found the sRGB setting under Edit/Preferences/External Editing/Edit in Adobe Photoshop CS5 and the settings here were Tiff, ProPhotoRGB, 16 bits/component. I just started using Photo/Edit in Adobe Photoshop CS5 so that explains why the PS settings had changed to 16 bit. I took the new file and exported it from PS as an 8 bit image but it still uploads in Tinypic as muddy. I don't use Flickr or any other web based hosting so for now I'm stuck with Tinypic. Any other thoughts?

  5. #5
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Why not try using flickr? it's free and it's simple to use. if you have two servers to upload your image to the web you can compare if it is really on the Tinypic side that is causing the problem or it is an isolated case concerning your PC. Just an idea, Frank. Or, upload a sample of your muddy image to mediafire.com then I will upload it to flickr for you to test.

  6. #6
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    OK, I loaded the file to mediafire.com and when it displayed the file it was muddy there as well so It looks like something has changed on my computer. Here is the link in case you want to look at it. http://www.mediafire.com/i/?x9nud7p9h66mwm7

    I'm not seeing anything in the file attributes that gives me any clues. I'll see if I can find a reason on the web why the images look normal on my monitor but won't upload correctly. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

  7. #7
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Here's the direct upload from flickr, Frank:

    The Red Feather Duster

  8. #8
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Yes, same thing. The weird part is I tried to download from CiC to my PC and it downloaded as a BMP file! A few minutes later, it downloaded again as a JPG. Now here is the really wierd stuff. The downloaded BMP file is muddy but the downloaded JPG copy of exactly the same file is normal, as is the downloaded copy of the one you posted on Flikr!

    OK, time to reboot and pray over the PC. Be back in a bit. Thanks, Willie.

  9. #9
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Well willie, the reboot didn't change anything. Tried various settings for the video card and monitor, couldn't find a setting that made any difference. Something changed between last night and this morning and until I can find and fix it I'm out of pocket for posting images on CiC.

    I can get the files looking great on the PC but they go muddy when I post to CiC or Mediafire (and I suspect anywhere else on the web). <sigh>

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Change the default program that handles your image file. Try to use windows default program and see if you'll have the same issue. It may be software dependent. If the issue is still the same, then it could be a hardware issue. Disable your video card (take it out of your PC) and reboot. Let windows OS set the video processing to its on-board video processor and see if you have the same issue. Try to isolate where the problem originates so you can find out if you need to change your video card or something. I believe you did not do any major change on your settings, right?
    Last edited by jiro; 23rd July 2011 at 01:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    I experimented with the file associations and discovered that if I open the JPG files in Windows Picture Viewer (or PD or LR), the picture looks normal, but if I use Apple Picture Viewer OR Internet Explorer 8, I get the muddy look. I reset all the IE8 settings but I don't see any difference.

    It makes me wonder if perhaps others see the files correctly and only I have the problem when looking at the files on the web. One time my file was downloaded from CiC as a BMP and it had the problem when I viewed it on my PC. I just uploaded that BMP. How do the colors on the picture below compare to what I previously posted?

    The Red Feather Duster

    On my PC all copies of the files as I see them on CiC have the same dull red tone.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    It looks dull red to me, Frank.

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Quote Originally Posted by jiro View Post
    It looks dull red to me, Frank.
    To me too, Frank. In fact, the one from your original post looks much more vibrant than this one.

  14. #14
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Thank you so much Willie and Abhi! That means that only I see the muddy (dull red) colors when I post the images to the web! In fact, all the images on this thread look identical on my PC! What is more confusing is why my previously posted images still look normal!

    They are constantly updating IE and now I am wondering if IE is screwed up on my PC or if IE is somehow using Apple Picture Viewer which gives me the same coloring. Getting closer but man-o-man, this is NOT what I wanted to spend my day doing! Thanks guys!
    Last edited by FrankMi; 23rd July 2011 at 01:27 AM.

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Hi Folks,

    I downloaded the image in your first post, and immediately noted that it's using ProPhoto colourspace; in a nutshell, that's your problem (it's also a pretty common one). You need to convert to sRGB for correct display on the internet.

    Note that RGB mode and sRGB colourspace are two entirely different things. So not a problem with TinyPIC; whether or not it displayed correctly is simply a case of whether or not the program that you use to view it is colourmanaged or not (photoshop / LR etc are, most aren't).

    In Photoshop, the solution is simple - just click on EDIT -> CONVERT TO PROFILE, and then ensure that the destination space is set to sRGB (there's a similar way to do it in LR, but as I don't use it, I'll let someone else chip in with that procedure).

    Viola ...

    The Red Feather Duster
    Last edited by Colin Southern; 23rd July 2011 at 01:32 AM.

  16. #16
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Why not try using Firefox or Chrome? I'm using Firefox, Frank. Just a thought.

  17. #17

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Quote Originally Posted by jiro View Post
    Why not try using Firefox or Chrome? I'm using Firefox, Frank. Just a thought.
    Some further clarification needed here ...

    1. If you publish to the net - using ProPhoto (like in the original post) - then MOST people will see grossly under-saturated and shifted colours becaue most people don't use colour-managed browsers.

    2. Many will say "well you should be using a colour-managed browser then", but it doesn't get you much (if any further) because colour-managed or not, most monitors are basically still sRGB devices, so in essence, all that's happening with colour-managed browsers is that the colour-management is simply converting the ProPhoto RGB or Adobe RGB image to an sRGB one for the purposes of display -- although ProPhoto and Adobe RGB are capable of representing more of the colours that your camera may have captured, it's still a moot point because the monitor is still physically incapable of displaying them ... so far easier to just publish using an sRGB colourspace in the first place.

  18. #18
    FrankMi's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    In Photoshop, the solution is simple - just click on EDIT -> CONVERT TO PROFILE, and then ensure that the destination space is set to sRGB (there's a similar way to do it in LR, but as I don't use it, I'll let someone else chip in with that procedure).

    Viola ...

    The Red Feather Duster
    Ah-HA! Now I see the shot the way I orginally posted it!

    OK, I think I now know what happened. I started doing more of the post processing in Lightroom and unlike previously, I used "Photo/Edit in Adobe Photoshop CS5" to open Photoshop, which changed settings in Photoshop as well. Looks like the image got tagged as ProPhoto which isn't listed under the file's properties. Thank you Colin, Willie, and Abhi!

  19. #19

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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankMi View Post
    Ah-HA! Now I see the shot the way I orginally posted it!

    OK, I think I now know what happened. I started doing more of the post processing in Lightroom and unlike previously, I used "Photo/Edit in Adobe Photoshop CS5" to open Photoshop, which changed settings in Photoshop as well. Looks like the image got tagged as ProPhoto which isn't listed under the file's properties. Thank you Colin, Willie, and Abhi!
    No worries!

    Easiest way to cure the "problem" in CS5 is to write a simple action that flicks the file to 8 bit and sRGB, and save it as a button - then literally 1 click and you're good to go.

  20. #20
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    Re: The Red Feather Duster

    Just seen this thread Frank - thanks for the message.
    Boy you did have some fun and games, I should have included details of how to assign a profile in my original message. I am no expert but I edit my images in the ProPhoto colour space (it has the widest colour range and so any graduations in tones should be smoother). After completing my editing I save the image as a 16 bit, unsharpened .tiff file.

    FOR PRINT
    When I need the image for print I open the .tiff file, apply 1 level of sharpening, resize, apply 2nd sharpening and assign the Adobe RGB profile before printing.

    FOR WEB
    I do exactly as 'For Print' except apply the sRGB profile before saving as .jpg.

    I hope that helps and isn't teaching you to 'suck eggs'.
    It seems Colin is more knowledgable than me, hopefully he will correct me if my workflow is not the most appropriate way of doing things.

    Chris

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