Hi Graham,
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I'm sorry to have to disagree with Robert regarding some of his statements and I apologise to Lex for going OT here. Having done a fair amount of research into the history of the photo - optical industry of the FSU and after having collected FSU manufactured cameras for some time, I have found that there is more urban legend and folklore accepted as fact when it comes to the manufacture of cameras in the FSU than the real facts. The Soviets never built anything "under licence". The fact is that the Soviet camera manufacturing industry was limited to a small selection of fairly unsophisticated cameras before the 2nd world war.
That's incorrect. The Soviets "bought" the licence for initially, importing, then producing Leica copies in the FSU since any proper trade agreement with German companies was banned under the sanctions imposed by the Allies after WWI. Some collectors will tell you that the Leica l+ll were the results of industrial espionage on the Germans part as they were given access tae the secret VOOMP factory in Leningrad, where prototypes of the FED/Zorki were under construction. This, of course, produces apoplexy in Leica fanboys... Barnack and Leitz had famously reached a stand-off, with Barnack almost leaving Leitz. They had what was, actually, a tinkered with, nearly 20 yo camera design (once described as an exposure meter with a lens).Then the Leica 1 appeared... The Pioneer 1 was about tae be introduced by the Soviets,when Leica 1 appeared on the scene.This led tae the abrupt break in co-operation around 1934/5 and the banning of foreign imports, which in turn led tae the Soviets gearing up FED/Zorki.
The Soviets had been co-operating with German optical companies since the mid 1920s as they had been producing better, more sophisticated cameras than the Germans (the Pioneer and FAG) but needed greater expertise in optical technology as the infamous Soviet "Plans" of that era meant slow technological evolution and not, ironically, revolution :cool:. As an aside - MiT, in the early Seventies, did an in-depth study of Soviet,German and Japanese glass. This study went as far as investigating the type of sand used!. They concluded that the Soviet glass was superior in both the constituents and the finished product but that it was let down by the inconsistencies of production and available capital for tooling, development. research etc.This report was largely ignored by the photographic press, probably due tae the Cold War and the fact that anything superior tae Western standards would be anathema tae the USA..
For a country which only produced "fairly unsophisticated cameras", the introduction of the FED1 and then FED2, with a removable back, slow shutter speeds, improved shutter, and ditching the 1000th second speed which was causing untold problems with Leicas was a fairly significant achievement. These cameras were produced in parallel with, not following Leica. The FED1/2 was the best rangefinder built up until (probably) the M series Leica, 20+ years later. 7 iterations of the FED and nearly 7 million cameras produced from a standing start is not bad going. Meanwhile, as Leica were struggling tae adapt their camera body - the Soviets were introducing their prototype Zenit C (S) AND B (V) SLRs in 1938/39.
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At the end of the 2nd world war the Soviets had a great windfall - they discovered that the Zeiss manufacturing plant at Dresden was in their zone of control and promptly claimed it as reparations, packed up all of the manufacturing plant and equipment, as well as all of the design drawings and parts stock and shipped it off to a railroad yard in the Ukraine, where it languished for some time before being unpacked and installed in the Kiyev Zavod Arsenal in Kiev. This can in no way be described as "manufacturing under licence" as that implies the goodwill and co-operation of the original manufacturer.
As you can see,in my first post and this one, ah made no reference tae Kiev/Contax and licences, ah was referring tae pre-war agreements for FED/Zorki. Postwar, the Allies gave away all German patents (even tae the Japanese) which was how they had such a surge in their photographic industry
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The Zeiss Contax II had been in production at Dresden before and during WW2 and in 1947 a quantity of Contax II cameras were assembled at the Kiev plant using parts appropriated in Dresden. These cameras had no name branding on the faceplate above the lens, but if the plate is removed the "ghost" of the word "Contax" can be seen from the rear. These cameras are now highly collectable. The original design of the Contax II was modified by the Soviets to make it less costly and easier to assemble. Materials were substituted, for example some of the stainless steel parts became brass and some of the machined parts were stamp formed. The original Zeiss camera was fitted with Zeiss lenses from the Jena factory, where a production facility had also been created from virtually nothing for the manufacture of the Contax camera. Eventually this facility was also shipped to the Ukraine and installed in the Kiev factory. The Zeiss lenses were copied and manufactures in the Ukraine. These optics we made to a high standard as the Soviets had some experience with optical manufacture.
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The original design of the Contax II was modified by the Soviets to make it less costly and easier to assemble.
Incorrect, the Kiev is an exact replica of the Contax.
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the Soviets had some experience with optical manufacture.
Damning with faint praise...;)
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The factory had to strictly adhere to a quota system, regardless of quality. Cameras were tested after final assembly, and those that didn't obviously work were simply scrapped, but they were never deducted from the production quota total but if the quota had not been reached these rejected cameras were included in the factory production.
Depending on the luck of the draw, a camera could be of sufficiently close tolerances to be of good quality and would be very reliable. The opposite was also true. Production quality slowly deteriorated until, in 1981, a delegation from the Soviet industrial authority arrived at the factory and condemned the entire production of the last two months, which was scrapped.
Peter Henning, the Zeiss historian, reports: " In the Soviet Union a network of specialised workshops was developed in order to handle problems of this kind. First you bought your camera at a low socialistic price. Then you realised that the camera did not function fully - you had to visit the specialised workshop. After paying this part of the affair as well, the total cost was about the same as a similar type of camera in the west."
Production of the Kiev / Contax derivatives was finally halted in 1986.
It's well documented the huge problems that later Kiev production experienced but up until the mid-seveties they were producing many more good than bad copies of an extremely complex camera (even by today's standards). As ye rightly say, the drive for quantity over quality had severe effects on the Kievs. Contax made around 5000 cameras a year,(at a price between 7-10 times the Kiev), so could afford stainless steel. Not that brass was a poor substitute - most quality cameras/lenses had many brass parts. Kiev tried tae make around 25,000. With an (almost) totally inexperienced workforce it's an achievement they made/sold any. Ah have a '73 Kiev/J8m,cost me £10, been CLA'd by an expert. It's now, as a Kiev should be, whisper quiet and purrs through its adjustments. This was probably amongst the last of the well-made Kievs.The point being, that if it was badly built, initially - no CLA or expert could have made it what it is now - ergo it was well-built initially. From '74 the real problems began - and only in the FSU could that factory have survived another 12 years.
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Fed cameras were a reverse engineered copy of the original Leica camera. Named after the founder of the Soviet Secret Police, Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky, the Fed I appeared in 1934 and was a copy of the Leica II 35mm rangefinder film camera, fitted with a FED f/3.5, 50mm uncoated lens. The factory used indigent children or orphaned children for the assembly labour force and fell under the direct control of the "Cheka" or secret police. Vast numbers of FED cameras were produced between 1937 and 1997. They are of "agricultural" quality, very robust and a good one will last a lifetime. Again, no formal agreement was ever entered into with Ernst Leitz A.G. and the FED was simply a reverse engeneered copy of the Leica, simplified to allow economic production quotas to be met. Apart from the similar shape of the body and layout of the controls,
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the FED was simply a reverse engeneered copy of the Leica, simplified to allow economic production quotas to be met.
again, that's mostly incorrect. Apart fae 2/3 minor cosmetic differences (shape of windows etc.) The only difference between the FED and Leica is the rangefinder cam. The Leica's a better design than the FED. Otherwise, exactly the same.
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Fed cameras were a reverse engineered copy of the original Leica camera
or vice versa?
a FED does not feel like, or perform like a real Leica camera.
That is, of course, an opinion. Ah believe that the FED2 is superior tae its equivalent Leica of that period and for several years afterwards.(That is, of course, an opinion, as well...) and certainly not agricultural.
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Other cameras were also produced in the FSU, such as the Kiev copy of the Hasselblad and the Zenit made copy of the Pentacon 35mm SLR but generally the story is the same - poor quality designed for simple assembly to meet the production quota. Of them all, the Zenit probably has the best quality control due to the requirements of it's West German distributors. The Zenit is a very reliable camera and while it does not have the fine finish and quality feel of a Pentacon or Praktica, many were sold into the UK market when importation of more expensive cameras was restricted in the 1950's and 1960's.
That's incorrect, again. The Zenit is not a copy of a Pentacon SLR. It can be traced in a direct line, back tae the Zorki. The Zorki body was extended tae accept the longer register of SLRs and it became the Zenit, Zenit C, 3, 3M, E, B. The only thing in common was the switch tae Praktica (M42) thread. As mentioned above, Zenit produced prototype SLRs, pre-war. TOE were the UK importers for Zenit and Lubitel, amongst others. Ah'd venture that they, rather than the Germans, were instrumental in improving QC. The UK is still the place tae get a good, cheap Zenit... £5-10. So many were sold here.
Zenit...
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Zenit3 + 3M...
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