Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

Doesn't this seem somewhat like "Photo Contests" in which the sponsors charge an entry fee and the photos entered become the "property" of the contest sponsors.

That IMO is a lose-lose proposition for the photographers entering those contests (except for the few winners) and a win-win for the sponsors.

That said, I am reluctantly (very reluctantly) evolving into the 21st Century Cyber World because so much dog adoption business is carried out on FaceBook...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rpcrowe

Doesn't this seem somewhat like "Photo Contests" in which the sponsors charge an entry fee and the photos entered become the "property" of the contest sponsors.

---

Not quite -- they're not asking folks to give them the images -- just asking folks to agree that they can use them for targeted advertising.

I thing folks need to remember the other side of the equation ... do they have any idea of the costs involved in setting up / using data centers all over the world and employing tens of thousands of people to create a product that they then GIVE AWAY. At the end of the day, it's a business that needs to make money somehow -- and this is one of the ways they do it. It can't just be a one-sided transaction -- there has to be something in it for them.

Finally some more rational thinking on the "scandal of 2012" ;)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/di...ise-user-rules

I only wish that my images were good enough for someone to want to try and sell (or even steal) them :(

I use Facebook to keep in touch with family all round the world and I participate in a number of Groups and put my photos up - but they are low res and have a watermark (yes I know they can be removed) but I never put up any image that I think might be of value.

I suppose on the upside of this is at least they tell you they are going to do it - there are a lot of people / corporations etc out there that are happy just to take any image they wish from any website and not even tell you to use for their own purpose :mad:

Karl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

At the end of the day, it's a business that needs to make money somehow... there has to be something in it for them.

---

I think a lot of users of social media and other 'free' online services fail to recognise (or just plain forget) that Facebook, Google, Yahoo etc. are businesses with responsibilities to owners/shareholders, creditors, the tax man etc... all of which come BEFORE their responsibilities to their non-paying user base. Without finding ways to commercialise their customer base all such services would need to be paid for at the point of use. The most common model seems to involve making you (or more specifically the commercially valuable user data you generate) the product, while the advertisers (and anyone else who is prepared to pay for the data) become the clients.

Personally I prefer to be the client and to pay up front for services, in return I expect transparent charging and a clear and binding contract. I know such contracts are often not worth the paper they are written on, but you only have to look at the past and present behaviour of providers of online services to recognise that they are considerably more circumspect with their treatment of contracted, paying customers than they are with their 'free to use' users.

While the advertising on CinC is the least intrusive of all the forums and tutorial sites that I've come across I would be happy to pay a subscription for the excellent service that CinC provides, not only to cover the infrastructure and data costs but also to provide some recompense for the efforts that the admins, mods and tutorial authors put in, without which CinC would not be the place it is.

Many thanks and a happy holiday to all of those who give their time to make this pleasant and considerate place work as well as it does.

Cheers,
A

Thank you for having a logical, realistic approach to the world, Colin.

"No publicity is bad publicity". That said "misinterpretation" is a poor excuse for making a cock-up in the first place especially when it is made by a supposedly intelligent person.
The thing that upsets me is that they can, or are trying to take someones work without any compensation at all. Yes Instagram is a business but surely they could have the good maners to ask before taking and inform the owner of the intended use for the photo and at least give the owner the option to say no. I would be proud to have a photo used but I want to be credited with that photo.
To me it yet another example of mega-businesses trying to control and worse, removing the right of choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mito

"No publicity is bad publicity". That said "misinterpretation" is a poor excuse for making a cock-up in the first place especially when it is made by a supposedly intelligent person.

---

It's pretty much the same wording that every other similar site uses -- it's probably just the first time that anybody has actually read it. Perhaps you should be concerned about CiC because our code of conduct says that moderators and administrators can edit any post for any reason ... aren't folks concerned that we're not changing things willy nilly and mis-stating peoples intentions on a regular basis?

Quote:

---

The thing that upsets me is that they can, or are trying to take someones work without any compensation at all. Yes Instagram is a business but surely they could have the good maners to ask before taking and inform the owner of the intended use for the photo and at least give the owner the option to say no.

---

They're not "taking it" (I'm quite sure you'll still have it) - and I don't think what they're doing is "rude" because they have been quite up-front about it. If they gave people the option then the internet posse would leap into action with a zillion campaigns to "just say no".

Quote:

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To me it yet another example of mega-businesses trying to control and worse, removing the right of choice.

---

Hang on a minute ... it's a FREE service and you very much still have a choice; if you don't like the terms and conditions then don't use the service. Yes - it is a BUSINESS - they have bills to pay and shareholders to satisfy -- BIG bills. I would suggest that it's bloomin hard to pay those bills when you give your services away for free.

If you ask me, what not fair about all of this is the public general's demands; all take and no give. They're happy to use the service for free, but additionally they also want to set the rules. And even when they're quite up-front about what they intend to do, people's imaginations run wild with a ridiculous mis-interpretation and they get publicly flogged / stoned by the vocal minority.

They just can't win.

Anything in here folks aren't happy with?
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PERSONAL INJURY OR FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY OF CARE, OR CLAIMS BY A THIRD PARTY, EVEN
IF AN ADOBE REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSS, DAMAGES,
CLAIMS, OR COSTS. IN ANY EVENT, ADOBE’S AGGREGATE LIABILITY AND THAT OF ITS AFFILIATES,
SUPPLIERS, AND CERTIFICATE AUTHORITIES UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT
WILL BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE, IF ANY. THIS LIMITATION WILL APPLY
EVEN IN THE EVENT OF A FUNDAMENTAL OR MATERIAL BREACH OR A BREACH OF THE
FUNDAMENTAL OR MATERIAL TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. Nothing contained in this agreement
limits Adobe’s liability to Customer in the event of death or personal injury resulting from Adobe’s
negligence or for the tort of deceit (fraud). Adobe is acting on behalf of its affiliates, suppliers, and
Certificate Authorities for the purpose of disclaiming, excluding and limiting obligations, warranties, and
liability, but in no other respects and for no other purpose.
THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS APPLY TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE
LAW IN CUSTOMER’S JURISDICTION. THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY MAY NOT BE VALID IN SOME
JURISDICTIONS. CUSTOMER MAY HAVE RIGHTS THAT CANNOT BE WAIVED UNDER CONSUMER
PROTECTION AND OTHER LAWS. ADOBE DOES NOT SEEK TO LIMIT ITS WARRANTY OR REMEDIES TO
ANY EXTENT NOT PERMITTED BY LAW. SEE SECTION 16 FOR JURISDICTION-SPECIFIC STATEMENTS.
9. Export Rules.
Customer acknowledges that the Software is subject to the U.S. Export Administration Regulations (the
“EAR”) and that Customer will comply with the EAR. Customer will not export or re-export the Software,
directly or indirectly, to: (a) any countries that are subject to U.S. export restrictions (including, but not
limited to, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria), (b) any end user whom Customer knows or has
reason to know will utilize them in the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or
biological weapons, or rocket systems, space launch vehicles, and sounding rockets, or unmanned air
vehicle systems, or (c) any end user who has been prohibited from participating in the U.S. export
transactions by any federal agency of the U.S. government. In addition, Customer is responsible for
complying with any local laws in Customer’s jurisdiction which may impact its right to import, export or
use the Software. If Adobe has knowledge that a violation has occurred, Adobe may be prohibited from
providing maintenance and support for the Software.
10. Governing Law.
If Customer is a consumer who uses the Software for only personal non-business purposes, then this
agreement will be governed by the laws of the jurisdiction which Customer purchased the license to use
the Software. If Customer is not such a consumer, this agreement will be governed by and construed in
accordance with the substantive laws in force in: (a) the State of California, if a license to the Software is
obtained when Customer is in the United States, Canada, or Mexico; (b) Japan, if a license to the
Software is obtained when Customer is in Japan; (c) Singapore, if a license to the Software is obtained
when Customer is in a member state of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, Mainland China,
Hong Kong S.A.R., Macau S.A.R., Taiwan, or the Republic of Korea; or (d) England and Wales, if a license
to the Software is obtained when Customer is in any jurisdiction not described above. The respective
courts of Santa Clara County, California when California law applies, Tokyo District Court in Japan, when
Japanese law applies, and the competent courts of London, England, when the law of England and
Wales applies, shall each have non-exclusive jurisdiction over all disputes relating to this agreement.
When Singapore law applies, any dispute arising out of or in connection with this agreement, including
any question regarding its existence, validity, or termination, shall be referred to and finally resolved by
arbitration in Singapore in accordance with the Arbitration Rules of the Singapore International
Arbitration Centre (“SIAC”) for the time being in force, which rules are deemed to be incorporated by
reference into this section. There shall be one arbitrator, selected jointly by the parties. If the arbitrator is
not selected within thirty (30) days of the written demand by a party to submit to arbitration, the
Chairman of the SIAC shall make the selection. The language of the arbitration shall be English.
Notwithstanding any provision in this agreement, Adobe or Customer may request any judicial,
administrative, or other authority to order any provisional or conservatory measure, including injunctive
relief, specific performance, or other equitable relief, prior to the institution of legal or arbitration
proceedings, or during the proceedings, for the preservation of its rights and interests or to enforce
specific terms that are suitable for provisional remedies. This agreement will not be governed by the
following, the application of which is hereby expressly excluded: (x) the conflict of law rules of any
jurisdiction, (y) the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods, and
(z) the Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act, as enacted in any jurisdiction.
11. General Provisions.
If any part of this agreement is found void and unenforceable, it will not affect the validity of the balance
of this agreement, which will remain valid and enforceable according to its terms. This agreement may
only be modified in writing, signed by an authorized officer of Adobe. The English version of this
agreement will be the version used when interpreting or construing this agreement. This is the entire
agreement between Adobe and Customer relating to the Software and it supersedes any prior
representations, discussions, undertakings, communications, or advertising relating to the Software.
12. Notice to U.S. Government End Users.
12.1 U.S. Government Licensing of Adobe Technology. Customer agrees that when licensing Adobe
Software for acquisition by the U.S. Government, or any contractor therefore, Customer will license
consistent with the policies set forth in 48 C.F.R. Section 12.212 (for civilian agencies) and 48 C.F.R.
Sections 227.7202-1 and 227.7202-4 (for the Department of Defense). For U.S. Government End Users,
Adobe agrees to comply with all applicable equal opportunity laws including, if appropriate, the
provisions of Executive Order 11246, as amended, Section 402 of the Vietnam Era Veterans
Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 (38 USC 4212), and Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973,
as amended, and the regulations at 41 CFR Parts 60-1 through 60-60, 60-250, and 60-741. The
affirmative action clause and regulations contained in the preceding sentence will be incorporated by
reference into this agreement.

12.2 Commercial Items. For U.S. Government End Users, Software is a “Commercial Item(s),” as that
term is defined at 48 C.F.R. Section 2.101, consisting of “Commercial Computer Software” and
“Commercial Computer Software Documentation,” as such terms are used in 48 C.F.R. Section 12.212
or 48 C.F.R. Section 227.7202, as applicable. Consistent with 48 C.F.R. Section 12.212 or 48 C.F.R.
Sections 227.7202-1 through 227.7202-4, as applicable, the Commercial Computer Software and
Commercial Computer Software Documentation are being licensed to U.S. Government end users
(a) only as Commercial Items and (b) with only those rights as are granted to all other end users
pursuant to the terms and conditions herein. Unpublished-rights reserved under the copyright laws of
the United States.
13. Compliance with Licenses.
If Customer is a business, company, or organization, Customer agrees that, in addition to any license
compliance checking performed by the Software, Adobe or its authorized representative have the right,
no more than once every twelve (12) months, upon seven (7) business days’ prior notice to Customer,
to inspect Customer’s records, systems, and facilities to verify that its use of any and all Adobe software
or service is in conformity with its valid licenses from Adobe. For example, Adobe has the right to those
of Customer’s records useful to determine whether installations of the Software have been serialized,
and Customer shall provide such records to Adobe promptly upon request by Adobe. Additionally,
Customer shall provide Adobe with all records and information requested by Adobe in order to verify
that its use of any and all Adobe software is in conformity with its valid licenses from Adobe within
thirty (30) days of Adobe’s request. Additional information on serialization is available at
http://www.adobe.com/go/elicensing.
14. Internet Connectivity and Privacy.
14.1 Automatic Connections to the Internet. The Software may cause Customer’s Computer, without
notice, to automatically connect to the Internet and to communicate with an Adobe website or Adobe
domain for purposes such as license validation and providing Customer with additional information,
features, or functionality. Unless otherwise specified in Sections 14.2 through 14.7, the following
provisions apply to all automatic Internet connections by the Software:
14.1.1 Whenever the Software makes an Internet connection and communicates with an Adobe
website, whether automatically or due to explicit user request, the Privacy Policy shall apply. Adobe
Privacy Policy allows tracking of website visits and it addresses in detail the topic of tracking and use of
cookies, web beacons, and similar devices.
14.1.2 Whenever the Software connects to Adobe over the Internet, certain Customer information is
collected and transmitted by the Software to Adobe pursuant to the Adobe Online Privacy Policy
available at http://www.adobe.com/go/privacy (“Privacy Policy”).
14.1.3 If Customer accesses an Adobe Online Service (as defined in Section 16.4 below) or activates or
registers the Software, then additional information such as Customer’s Adobe ID, user name, and
password may be transmitted to and stored by Adobe pursuant to the Privacy Policy and additional
terms of use related to such Adobe Online Service (collectively with the Adobe.com terms of use and
any applicable terms, the “Additional Terms of Use”).
14.1.4 As permitted by applicable law or as consented to by Customer, Adobe may (a) send Customer
transactional messages to facilitate the Adobe Online Service or the activation or registration of the
Software or Adobe Online Service, or (b) deliver in-product marketing to provide information about the
Software and other Adobe products and Services using information including but not limited to platform
version, version of the Software, license status, and language.
14.2 Updating. The Software may cause Customer’s Computer, without additional notice, to
automatically connect to the Internet (intermittently or on a regular basis) to (a) check for Updates that
are available for download to and installation on the Computer and (b) notify Adobe of the results of
installation attempts.
14.3 Activation. The Software may require Customer to (a) obtain an Adobe ID, (b) activate or reactivate
the Software, (c) register the software, or (d) validate the Membership. Such requirement may cause
Customer’s Computer to connect to the Internet without notice on install, on launch, and on a regular
basis thereafter. Once connected, the Software will collect and transmit information to Adobe as further
described at http://www.adobe.com/go/activation (“Activation Terms”). Software or Customer may also
receive information from Adobe related to Customer’s license, subscription, or Membership. Adobe
may use such information to detect or prevent fraudulent or unauthorized use not in accordance with a
valid license, subscription, or Membership. Failure to activate or register the Software, validate the
subscription or Membership, or a determination by Adobe of fraudulent or unauthorized use of the
Software may result in reduced functionality, inoperability of the Software, or a termination or
suspension of the subscription or Membership.
14.4 Deactivation. Customer may deactivate and uninstall the Software from its Computer in order to
install and activate the Software on another Computer in accordance with this agreement
(“Deactivation”) and as further described in http://www.adobe.com/go/activation. Deactivation requires
Internet connectivity.
14.5 Use of Online Services. The Software may cause Customer’s Computer, without additional notice
and on an intermittent or regular basis, to automatically connect to the Internet to facilitate Customer’s
access to content and services that are provided by Adobe or third parties as further described in
Section 16.4 (Online Services). In addition, the Software may, without additional notice, automatically
connect to the Internet to update downloadable materials from these online services so as to provide
immediate availability of these services even when Customer is offline.
14.6 Digital Certificates. The Software uses digital certificates (as described in Section 16.5) to help
Customer identify downloaded files (e.g., applications and content) and the publishers of those files. For
example, Adobe AIR uses digital certificates to help Customer identify the publisher of Adobe AIR
applications. The Adobe Acrobat family of products also uses digital certificates to sign and validate
signatures within Portable Document Format (“PDF”) documents and to validate certified PDF
documents. Customer’s Computer may connect to the Internet at the time of validation of a digital
certificate.
14.7 Settings Manager. The Software may include Flash Player. Flash Player may save certain user
settings by storing them on Customer’s Computer as a local shared object. They are associated with the
instance of Flash Player on the Computer, allowing Customer to customize runtime features. The Flash
Player Settings Manager permits Customer to modify such settings, including the ability to limit third
parties from storing local shared objects or grant third party content the right to access the computer’s
microphone and camera. Additional information on how to configure settings in its version of Flash
Player, including information on how to disable local shared objects using the Flash Player Settings
Manager, is available at http://www.adobe.com/go/settingsmanager. Additional information on local
shared objects is available at http://www.adobe.com/go/flashplayer_security.
15. Peer-to-Peer Communications.
The Software may use Customer’s connection to a local area network, without additional notice, to
automatically connect to other Adobe software and, in doing so, may indicate on the local area network
that it is available for communication with other Adobe software. These connections may transmit the
IP Address of Customer’s connection to the local network.
16. Specific Provisions and Exceptions.
This section sets forth specific provisions related to certain products and components of the Software as
well as limited exceptions to the above terms and conditions. To the extent that any provision in this
section is in conflict with any other term or condition in this agreement, the terms stated in this section
will supersede such other term or condition.
16.1 No Prejudice; European Economic Area Provisions; Australia Mandatory Notice.
16.1.1 This agreement will not prejudice the statutory rights of any party, including those dealing as
consumers. For example, for consumers in New Zealand who obtain the Software for personal,
domestic, or household use (not business purposes), this agreement is subject to the Consumer
Guarantees Act.
16.1.2 If Customer obtained the Software in the European Economic Area (EEA), Customer usually
resides in the EEA and Customer is a consumer (that is its use of the Software is for personal, nonbusiness related purposes), then Section 6 (Limited Warranty) does not apply to Customer’s purchase
and use of the Software. Instead, Adobe warrants for a period of 2 years from purchase that the Software
provides the functionalities set forth in the applicable user manual (the “agreed upon functionalities”)
when used on the Compatible Computer. Non-substantial variation from the agreed upon
functionalities will not establish any warranty rights. THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT APPLY TO
SOFTWARE THAT CUSTOMER USES ON A PRE-RELEASE, TRYOUT, STARTER, OR PRODUCT SAMPLER
BASIS, OR TO FONT SOFTWARE, OR TO THE EXTENT THE SOFTWARE FAILS TO PERFORM BECAUSE IT
HAS BEEN ALTERED BY CUSTOMER. To make a warranty claim, Customer must notify the Adobe
Customer Support Department during this 2 year period, providing details of proof of purchase of the
Software. Adobe will verify with Customer whether there is a defect in the Software or advise Customer
that the error arises because Customer has not installed the Software correctly (in which case, Adobe
shall assist Customer). If there is a defect in the Software, Customer may request from Adobe either a
refund or a repaired or replacement copy of the Software. Requests must be accompanied by proof of
purchase. In the event Customer’s warranty details are substantiated, Adobe will meet Customer’s
request for repaired or replacement Software, unless it is not reasonable for Adobe to do so, in which
case Adobe will provide Customer with a refund. For warranty assistance, please contact the Adobe
Customer Support Department.
Please note that the provisions of Section 8 (Limitation of Liability) will continue to apply to any
damages claims Customer makes in respect of its use of the Software. Nonetheless, Adobe shall be
liable for direct losses that are reasonably foreseeable in the event of a breach by Adobe of this
agreement. Customer is advised to take all reasonable measures to avoid and reduce damages, in
particular by making back-up copies of the Software and its computer data.
This agreement, and in particular this Section 16.1.2, is intended to describe Customer’s rights (including
its statutory rights) in the event there should be problems with its use of the Software. If Customer’s
statutory rights are greater than this description, its statutory rights shall apply.
16.1.3 Nothing included in this agreement (including Section 4.4) shall limit any non-waivable right to
decompile the Software that Customer may enjoy under applicable law. For example, if Customer is
located in the European Union (EU), Customer may have the right upon certain conditions specified in
the applicable law to decompile the Software if it is necessary to do so in order to achieve
interoperability of the Software with another software program, and Customer has first asked Adobe in
writing to provide the information necessary to achieve such operability and Adobe has not made such
information available. In addition, such decompilation may only be performed by Customer or someone
else entitled to use a copy of the Software on Customer’s behalf. Adobe has the right to impose
reasonable conditions before providing such information. Any information supplied by Adobe or
obtained by Customer, as permitted hereunder, may only be used by Customer for the purpose
described herein and may not be disclosed to any third party or used to create any software that is
substantially similar to the expression of the Software or used for any other act that infringes the
copyright of Adobe or its licensors.
16.1.4 If Customer obtains the Software in Australia, then the following provision shall apply,
notwithstanding anything stated to the contrary in this Agreement:
NOTICE TO CONSUMERS IN AUSTRALIA:
Our goods come with guarantees that cannot be excluded under the Australian Consumer Law. You are
entitled to a replacement or refund for a major failure and for compensation for any other reasonably
foreseeable loss or damage. You are also entitled to have the goods repaired or replaced if the goods
fail to be of acceptable quality and the failure does not amount to a major failure. Our software products
also come with a 90-day limited warranty given by Adobe Systems Software Ireland Limited, with an
office at 4-6 Riverwalk, Citywest Business Campus, Dublin, Ireland, as set out in the Agreement. If your
products do not provide the general features and functions described in the User Documentation in the
90-day period after delivery to you, please call the Adobe Customer Support Department at
1800 614 863 with details of your product, serial number, and proof of purchase. You may be required
to return the software product to the address we provide to you at the time, in which case such return
will be at your own cost. The benefits under this warranty are in addition to other rights and remedies
that you may have at law.


property of their respective owners.

16.2 Pre-release Software Additional Terms. If the Software is pre-commercial release or beta software
(“Pre-release Software”), then this section applies. The Pre-release Software does not represent final
product from Adobe, and may contain bugs, errors, and other problems that could cause system or
other failures and data loss. Adobe may never commercially release the Pre-release Software. If
Customer received the Pre-release Software pursuant to a separate written agreement, such as the
Adobe Systems Incorporated License Agreement for Pre-release Software, then Customer’s use of the
Software is also governed by such agreement. Customer will promptly return or destroy all copies of
Pre-release Software upon the earlier of Adobe’s request or upon Adobe’s commercial release of such
Software. CUSTOMER’S USE OF PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE IS AT ITS OWN RISK. SEE SECTIONS 6 AND 8
FOR LIMITED WARRANTY AND LIABILITY LIMITATIONS RELATED TO PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE.
16.3 Educational Software Product. If the Software is Educational Software Product (Software
manufactured and distributed for use only by Educational End Users), Customer is not entitled to use
the Software unless Customer qualify in its jurisdiction as an Educational End User. Please visit
http://www.adobe.com/go/edu_purchasing to learn about eligibility. Please visit
http://www.adobe.com/go/store and look for the link for Buying Adobe Products Worldwide to find an
Adobe Authorized Academic Reseller.
16.4 Online Services.
16.4.1 Provided by Adobe. The Software facilitates Customer’s access to content and various services
that are hosted on websites maintained by Adobe or its affiliates (“Adobe Online Services”). Examples of
such Adobe Online Services might include, but are not limited to: Adobe BrowserLab, Adobe CS
Review, Business Catalyst, Digital Publishing Suite, Acrobat.com, Search for Help, and product Welcome
Screens. In some cases an Adobe Online Service might appear as a feature or extension within the
Software even though it is hosted on a website. Access to an Adobe Online Service may require
Customer to activate the Software, obtain an Adobe ID, consent to Additional Terms of Use, or require a
separate fee in order to access such Adobe Online Services. Adobe Online Services might not be
available in all languages or to residents of all countries and Adobe may, at any time and for any reason,
modify or discontinue the availability of any Adobe Online Service. Adobe also reserves the right to
begin charging a fee for access to or use of an Adobe Online Service that was previously offered at no
charge. Section 14 states important information regarding Internet connectivity and Customer’s privacy.
As stated in Section 14, when the Software accesses an Adobe Online Service, Customer’s use of such
Adobe Online Service is governed by the Adobe Privacy Policy (http://www.adobe.com/go/privacy), by
the Adobe.com Terms of Use (http://www.adobe.com/go/terms), and by any Additional Terms of Use
that might be presented to Customer at that time.
16.4.2 Provided by Third Parties. The Software may facilitate Customer’s access to websites maintained
by third parties offering goods, information, software, and services (“Third Party Online Services”).
Examples of such Third Party Online Services might include, but are not limited to, the Kodak EasyShare
Gallery service. Customer’s access to and use of any Third Party Online Services is governed by the
terms, conditions, disclaimers, and notices found on such site or otherwise associated with such Third
Party Online Services. Adobe does not control, endorse, or accept responsibility for Third Party Online
Services. Any dealings between Customer and any third party in connection with a Third Party Online
Service, including such party’s privacy policies and use of Customer’s personal information, delivery of
and payment for goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations
associated with such dealings, are solely between Customer and such third party. Third Party Online
Services might not be available in all languages or to residents of all countries and Adobe may, at any
time and for any reason, modify or discontinue the availability of any Third Party Online Service.
16.4.3 EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY AGREED BY ADOBE OR ITS AFFILIATES OR A THIRD PARTY IN A
SEPARATE AGREEMENT, CUSTOMER’S USE OF ADOBE ONLINE SERVICES AND THIRD PARTY ONLINE
SERVICES IS AT ITS OWN RISK UNDER THE WARRANTY AND LIABILITY LIMITATIONS OF SECTIONS 7
AND 8.
16.5 Digital Certificates.
16.5.1 Use. Digital certificates are issued by third party certificate authorities, including Adobe Certified
Document Services (CDS) vendors listed at http://www.adobe.com/go/partners_cds and Adobe
Approved Trust List vendors (“AATL”) listed at http://www.adobe.com/go/aatl (collectively “Certificate
Authorities”), or can be self-signed.
16.5.2 Terms and Conditions. Purchase, use, and reliance upon digital certificates is the responsibility of
Customer and a Certificate Authority. Before Customer relies upon any certified document, digital
signature, or Certificate Authority services, Customer should review the applicable terms and conditions
under which the relevant Certificate Authority provides services, including, for example, any subscriber
agreements, relying party agreements, certificate policies, and practice statements. See the links on
http://www.adobe.com/go/partners_cds for information about Adobe’s CDS vendors and
http://www.adobe.com/go/aatl for information about AATL vendors.
16.5.3 Acknowledgement. Customer agrees that (a) the Software, due to configuration or external
issues, might show a signature as valid despite the fact a digital certificate may have been revoked or
expired prior to the time of verification; (b) the security or integrity of a digital certificate may be
compromised due to an act or omission by the signer of the document, the applicable Certificate
Authority, or any other third party; and (c) a certificate may be a self-signed certificate not provided by a
Certificate Authority. CUSTOMER IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO RELY
ON A CERTIFICATE. UNLESS A SEPARATE WRITTEN WARRANTY IS PROVIDED TO CUSTOMER BY A
CERTIFICATE AUTHORITY, CUSTOMER'S USE OF DIGITAL CERTIFICATES IS AT ITS SOLE RISK.
16.5.4 Third-Party Beneficiaries. Customer agrees that any Certificate Authority which the Customer
relies upon is a third-party beneficiary of this agreement and shall have the right to enforce this
agreement in its own name as if it were Adobe.
16.5.5 Indemnity. Customer agrees to hold Adobe and any applicable Certificate Authority (except as
expressly provided in its terms and conditions) harmless from any and all liabilities, losses, actions,
damages, or claims (including all reasonable expenses, costs, and attorneys’ fees) arising out of or
relating to Customer’s use of, or any reliance on, any service of such authority, including, without
limitation: (a) reliance on an expired or revoked certificate; (b) improper verification of a certificate,
(c) use of a certificate other than as permitted by any applicable terms and conditions, this agreement or
applicable law; (d) failure to exercise reasonable judgment under the circumstances in relying on issuer
services or certificates; or (e) failure to perform any of the obligations as required in the terms and
conditions related to the services.
16.6 Font Software. If the Software includes font software:
16.6.1 Customer may use the font software with the Software on Computers as described in Section 2
and output the font software to any output device(s) connected to such Computer(s).
16.6.2 If the Permitted Number of Computers is five (5) or fewer, Customer may download the font
software to the memory (hard disk or RAM) of one output device connected to at least one of such
Computers for the purpose of having the font software remain resident in such output device, and of
one more such output device for every multiple of five represented by the Permitted Number of
Computers.
16.6.3 Customer may take a copy of the font(s) Customer has used for a particular file to a commercial
printer or other service bureau, and such service bureau may use the font(s) to process its file, provided
such service bureau has a valid license to use that particular font software.
16.6.4 Customer may embed copies of the font software into its electronic documents for the purpose of
printing, viewing, and editing the document. No other embedding rights are implied or permitted under
this license.
16.6.5 As an exception to the above, the fonts listed at http://www.adobe.com/go/restricted_fonts are
included with the Software only for purposes of operation of the Software user interface and not for
inclusion within any Output Files. Such listed fonts are not licensed under this Section 16.6. Customer
agrees that it will not copy, move, activate or use, or allow any font management tool to copy, move,
activate or use, such listed fonts in or with any software application, program, or file other than the
Software.
16.7 After Effects Render Engine. If the Software includes the full version of Adobe After Effects, then
Customer may install an unlimited number of Render Engines on Computers within its Internal Network
which includes at least one Computer on which the full version of the Adobe After Effects software is
installed. The term “Render Engine” means an installable portion of the Software that allows After
Effects projects to be rendered but which cannot be used to create or modify projects and does not
include the complete After Effects user interface.
16.8 Acrobat Standard, Acrobat Pro, and Adobe Acrobat Suite Features. If the Software includes Acrobat
Standard, Acrobat Pro, Acrobat Suite, or certain features within the above software, then this
Section 16.8 shall apply.
16.8.1 Additional Definitions.
16.8.1.1 “Deploy” means to deliver or otherwise make available, directly or indirectly, by any means
including but not limited to a network or Internet, an Extended Document to one or more recipients.
16.8.1.2 “Extended Document” means a PDF file manipulated by the Software to enable the ability to
locally save documents with filled-in PDF forms.
16.8.2 The Software may include enabling technology that allows Customer to enable PDF documents
with certain features through the use of a digital credential located within the Software (“Key”).
Customer agrees not to access, attempt to access, control, disable, remove, use, or distribute the Key for
any purpose.
16.8.3 For any unique Extended Document Customer may only either (a) Deploy such Extended
Document to an unlimited number of unique recipients, but Customer shall not extract information or
cause the information to be extracted from more than five hundred (500) unique instances of such
Extended Document or any hardcopy representation of such Extended Document containing filled form
fields; or (b) Deploy such Extended Document to no more than five hundred (500) unique recipients
without limits on the number of times Customer may extract information from such Extended
Document returned to Customer filled-in by such recipients. Notwithstanding anything herein to the
contrary, obtaining additional licenses to use Acrobat Standard, Acrobat Pro, or Adobe Acrobat Suite
shall not increase the foregoing limits (that is, the foregoing limits are the aggregate total limits
regardless of how many additional licenses to use Acrobat Standard, Acrobat Pro, or Adobe Acrobat
Suite Customer may have obtained).
16.9 Flash Player Projectors and Runtime. Customer’s rights to use any Flash player, projector,
standalone player, plug-in, runtime, or ActiveX control provided to Customer as part of or with the
Software, or in an Output File shall be governed by terms available at
http://www.adobe.com/go/flashplayer_usage. Unless and except as provided therein, Customer shall
have no rights to use or distribute such software.
16.10 Contribute Publishing Services. Subject to the Contribute Publishing Services software end user
license agreement accompanying such software, Customer shall not connect to the Contribute
Publishing Services software unless Customer has purchased a license to connect to such Contribute
Publishing Services software for each individual who may connect to such Contribute Publishing
Services software; provided, however, that trial versions of Adobe Contribute software may install and
connect to the Contribute Publishing Services software in accordance with the Contribute Publishing
Services software end user license agreement.
16.11 Adobe Presenter. If the Software includes Adobe Presenter and Customer installs or uses the
Adobe Connect Add-in in connection with the use of the Software, Customer agrees that it will install
and use such add-in only on a desktop Computer and not on any non-PC product, including, but not
limited to, a web appliance, set top box, handheld, phone, or web pad device. Further, the portion of the
Software that is embedded in a presentation, information, or content created and generated using the
Software (the “Adobe Presenter Run-Time”) may only be used together with the presentation,
information, or content in which it is embedded. Customer shall not use, and shall cause all licensees of
such presentation, information, or content not to use, the Adobe Presenter Run-Time other than as
embedded in such presentation, information or content. In addition, Customer shall not use, and shall
cause all licensees of such presentation, information, or content not to, modify, reverse engineer, or
disassemble the Adobe Presenter Run-Time.
16.12 Flash Builder with LiveCycle Data Services (LCDS) Data Management Library. Adobe Flash Builder
may include the fds.swc library. Customer may use fds.swc only to provide client-side data management
capabilities and as an output file within software Customer develops, subject to the following: Customer
may not (a) use fds.swc to enable associations or offline capabilities within software or (b) incorporate
fds.swc into any software that is similar to Adobe LiveCycle Data Services or BlazeDS. If Customer would
like to do any of the foregoing, Customer will need to request a separate license from Adobe.
16.13 Digital Publishing Suite. The following terms apply if Software includes certain components or
features designed to work with or access Digital Publishing Suite, subject to the Additional Terms of Use
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And that was just ONE EULA for ONE of the products we use daily!

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Originally Posted by DeepWater

Some questions from a non Facebook user
Pardon my ignorance but it would seem to me that the way to circumvent the issue is to use Facebook as social network tool but have it link to your images on another site, such as SmugMug. Then there is nothing for them to steal, and to me what they are doing is theft, pure, plain and simple. As has been pointed out they are integrated into everything so to quit using them if they are beneficial might not be the way to go. I have intentionally avoided all the social media hype for years so I am not really knowledgeable in this area, but am looking into marketing my services now and the social media is where everyone is at, so it seems. Thus my thoughts about using them but not having pictures posted. Am I wet behind the ears?? What do you think? There has to be a way to beat them at their own game.

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Also, don't provide a high quality image that can be easily downloaded for free.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeepWater

Some questions from a non Facebook user
Pardon my ignorance but it would seem to me that the way to circumvent the issue is to use Facebook as social network tool but have it link to your images on another site, such as SmugMug.

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There really isn't any "issue" that needs circumventing, but none-the-less, you may be interested to read a snip of SmugMugs T&C:

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You retain the copyright in any User Content you post on the Site. SmugMug neither has nor wants any ownership of your Content. However, by uploading and/or posting any User Content to the Site, you grant SmugMug a perpetual, nonexclusive and royalty-free right to use the User Content and the name that is submitted in connection with such User Content, as is reasonably necessary to display the User Content, provide the Services and to facilitate, at Content Owner's direction, the license of Photos or the sale of Products on the Site.

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Quote:

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Then there is nothing for them to steal, and to me what they are doing is theft, pure, plain and simple.

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They're not stealing anything.

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As has been pointed out they are integrated into everything so to quit using them if they are beneficial might not be the way to go. I have intentionally avoided all the social media hype for years so I am not really knowledgeable in this area, but am looking into marketing my services now and the social media is where everyone is at, so it seems. Thus my thoughts about using them but not having pictures posted. Am I wet behind the ears?? What do you think?

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I think folks need to take a step back and stop giving the sh*t-stirring publications the attention they're getting with their grand-standing. If these services are good enough for practically ALL of the world's top photographers (who make a zillion times more than I ever will), then it's good enough for me.

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There has to be a way to beat them at their own game.

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James, they're not "the enemy" - they're a business who has to try and make money from a valuable product that they give away for free - and in a nutshell that requires targeted advertising. It's not realistic to expect a free service without the end user being asked to "give a little back". They're not stealing anything - they're not being sneaky about anything - they're simply saying that if you want to use our free services then you need to let us use thumbnail-sized copies of a tiny fraction of the users stored image base to assist with targeted advertising.

Having advertised on Facebook I think folks will find that additional demographics such as age / sex / location / interests will be worth a zillion times more to them as advertising tools than the photos.

Blog entry from Instagram's co-founder:

http://blog.instagram.com/post/38421...-your-feedback

I especially liked the bit "You also had deep concerns about whether under our new terms, Instagram had any plans to sell your content. I want to be really clear: Instagram has no intention of selling your photos, and we never did. We don’t own your photos – you do."

@Colin:
There's at least one big difference between the license users grant smugmug, compared to the license for Facebook/Instagram:
for smugmug, the license is limited to what is needed for the service they provide, not quite what FB/instagram wants as rights.

and your last quote considers current situation and past situation, nothing about the future, and the new ToS aren't in effect yet...
As instagram is now part of facebook, how much clout does the con-founder still have?

Finally, I never thought I'd have to say this, but I find your posting of FOUR maximum-sized posts offensive, especially for a forum
administrator. (such an integral copy and publication might be a copyright violation?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by revi

@Colin:
There's at least one big difference between the license users grant smugmug, compared to the license for Facebook/Instagram:
for smugmug, the license is limited to what is needed for the service they provide, not quite what FB/instagram wants as rights.

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Maybe ... but what it SAYS is "as is reasonably necessary" ... and I'll bet that in the event of a dispute then their definition of "reasonably necessary" would be different to the other parties definition.That's not the point though ... the point is that no matter what T&C / EULA you read you're going to find things that can be taken one way when that way was never intended. The Instagram thing was a perfect example of this - never once did they ever have the slightest intention of selling users photos (just stop and think of the absurdity of the thought of that for just a moment) -- I'm pretty sure the folks who turned the mountain into a molehill probably knew that too - and yet millions of "sheeple" got on their "high-horses" - "totally outraged" etc. Do people just believe everything they read on the internet these days without stopping to actually think for themselves?

Quote:

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and your last quote considers current situation and past situation, nothing about the future, and the new ToS aren't in effect yet...
As instagram is now part of facebook, how much clout does the con-founder still have?

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*bangs head against wall*. Trust me - they're not going to be selling users photos. Why? Because it would be commercial suicide and they're not stupid enough to commit commercial suicide.

Quote:

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Finally, I never thought I'd have to say this, but I find your posting of FOUR maximum-sized posts offensive, especially for a forum
administrator. (such an integral copy and publication might be a copyright violation?)

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Why is it "offensive"? - if you don't want to read it (and I assume that most wouldn't) - then spend 2 seconds rolling your mouse wheel to scroll past it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by revi

@Colin:
There's at least one big difference between the license users grant smugmug, compared to the license for Facebook/Instagram:
for smugmug, the license is limited to what is needed for the service they provide, not quite what FB/instagram wants as rights.

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Maybe ... but what it SAYS is "as is reasonably necessary" ... and I'll bet that in the event of a dispute then their definition of "reasonably necessary" would be different to the other parties definition.That's not the point though ... the point is that no matter what T&C / EULA you read you're going to find things that can be taken one way when that way was never intended. The Instagram thing was a perfect example of this - never once did they ever have the slightest intention of selling users photos (just stop and think of the absurdity of the thought of that for just a moment) -- I'm pretty sure the folks who turned the mountain into a molehill probably knew that too - and yet millions of "sheeple" got on their "high-horses" - "totally outraged" etc. Do people just believe everything they read on the internet these days without stopping to actually think for themselves? Apparently not!

Quote:

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and your last quote considers current situation and past situation, nothing about the future, and the new ToS aren't in effect yet...
As instagram is now part of facebook, how much clout does the con-founder still have?

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*bangs head against wall*. Trust me - they're not going to be selling users photos. Why? Because it would be commercial suicide and they're not stupid enough to commit commercial suicide.

Quote:

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Finally, I never thought I'd have to say this, but I find your posting of FOUR maximum-sized posts offensive, especially for a forum
administrator. (such an integral copy and publication might be a copyright violation?)

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Why is it "offensive"? - if you don't want to read it (and I assume that most wouldn't) - then spend 2 seconds rolling your mouse wheel to scroll past it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

Maybe ... but what it SAYS is "as is reasonably necessary" ... and I'll bet that in the event of a dispute then their definition of "reasonably necessary" would be different to the other parties definition.That's not the point though ... the point is that no matter what T&C / EULA you read you're going to find things that can be taken one way when that way was never intended. The Instagram thing was a perfect example of this - never once did they ever have the slightest intention of selling users photos (just stop and think of the absurdity of the thought of that for just a moment) -- I'm pretty sure the folks who turned the mountain into a molehill probably knew that too - and yet millions of "sheeple" got on their "high-horses" - "totally outraged" etc. Do people just believe everything they read on the internet these days without stopping to actually think for themselves?

*bangs head against wall*. Trust me - they're not going to be selling users photos. Why? Because it would be commercial suicide and they're not stupid enough to commit commercial suicide.

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Ok, lets postulate for now that they cannot sell users' photos without committing 'commercial suicide'*. Do they know that, and if they do,
why do they insist on having such a broad clause?

The clause from smugmug has at least a limitation to uses related to smugmug, the facebook clause doesn't have such a limitation.

*) I'm not convinced that it would be commercial suicide, as all the noise about this and other privacy concerns doesn't seem to have had much effect. I'm not even sure that more than 5% of the users knows what is going on.

An exemple of why I don't like such a broad clause: a rather extremist political party in NZ (views opposite to yours) likes your photo of the bridge, and offers to license it from facebook. They get it and post it with your name under it... You gave a license to sub-license the photo w/o limitation, and no release needed, as no recognisable persons on it. But now your name is linked to that party.

Quote:

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Why is it "offensive"? - if you don't want to read it (and I assume that most wouldn't) - then spend 2 seconds rolling your mouse wheel to scroll past it.

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Spam?