Scott

thanks for posting this. It's very helpful when one can see the specific steps.

You noted:

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The problem with RGB colour spaces is that the brightness and saturation are not separate values, so when something gets darkened up, saturation also increases and looks wrong.

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Given that, why not do step 2 with a luminosity blend mode? Wouldn't that obviate the need for step 6, unless the original saturation is problematic? I often do curves adjustments with a luminosity blend mode to avoid changing saturation.

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Originally Posted by DanK

thanks for posting this. It's very helpful when one can see the specific steps.

You noted:



Given that, why not do step 2 with a luminosity blend mode? Wouldn't that obviate the need for step 6, unless the original saturation is problematic? I often do curves adjustments with a luminosity blend mode to avoid changing saturation.

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I use both approaches Dan, but I find using normal blending mode with with a separate adjustment saturation layer gives me a bit better control over the final look, especially in situations where the amount I darken the area is significant.

The person I learned the underlying technique from uses another approach. He limits the amount of "burning" in any one layer to half the height of the grid shown when using the 10 x 10 grid (not the default 4 x 4 grid) on a curves adjustment layer using a normal blending mode. He then just duplicates the layer until he gets the look he wants. He can end up with 0 to around 5 or 6 duplicate layers.

I know of some people who will (for very specific reasons) flip to either CMYK or Lab colour spaces to tweak the K or L channel independently, using a destructive workflow and then flipping back to the working colour space.

As we know, Photoshop allows many different approached to tackle the same problem.

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The person I learned the underlying technique from uses another approach. He limits the amount of "burning" in any one layer to half the height of the grid shown when using the 10 x 10 grid (not the default 4 x 4 grid) on a curves adjustment layer using a normal blending mode. He then just duplicates the layer until he gets the look he wants. He can end up with 0 to around 5 or 6 duplicate layers.

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Interesting. It's not obvious why that would have a different effect than doing it in one layer, but I don't know what the math is.

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I know of some people who will (for very specific reasons) flip to either CMYK or Lab colour spaces to tweak the K or L channel independently,

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I did that a number of times but gave it up because using a luminosity blend mode is so much easier and faster.

I think where I end up with this is that I would use a luminosity blend mode and then add the saturation adjustment if it is still necessary. In the worst case--if it is necessary--it would be the same amount of work as your workflow. In the best case, it would be easier.

One more thought / suggestion Mike, and this involves the capture stage.

I don't know how well your Godox Witstro AD600's modeling light works (i.e. how bright it is) but if you are working in an area that is dark enough and you have it turned up all the way, it might be good enough to work with. The studio lights I shoot with (other than my Godox Witstro AD360) all have 250W halogen modeling lights, so these are very useful to see where the light is falling when I set up my shots. This works well in a studio setting where I can plug the lights in, but not a feature I use when shooting from a battery as it kills the battery very quickly.

I will adjust where I am aiming the light, based on what I see under modeling lights and will use black foam core "flags" to block the light when it falls in places I don't want it to.

The other thing you might want to start adding to your shooting kit is either a commercial reflector or a white piece of styrofoam, foam core or coreplast to act as a relector. If you are shooting alone, then a stand and holder are useful (even leaning it on a chair can work) and use these as a fill light.

I've used a piece of light modeling software (Elixxer Set.a.light 3D) to demonstrate.

This first shot is more or how you shot the image; single octabox.

http://i66.tinypic.com/105xiir.jpg


If I bring a white reflector in close to the subject, it acts as a fill light and cuts down the harsh shadows. A second active flash can be used for fill, but that is an expensive solution. I generally have the reflector just barely out of frame.

https://i65.tinypic.com/2qxug42.jpg

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Originally Posted by DanK

I think where I end up with this is that I would use a luminosity blend mode and then add the saturation adjustment if it is still necessary. In the worst case--if it is necessary--it would be the same amount of work as your workflow. In the best case, it would be easier.

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That is often what I do as well, but in this case, I did not get the result I wanted, so I went the extra step. I could have used the luminosity blend mode, but just did not to show that using the normal blend mode works as well.

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Originally Posted by Evertking

I don't know of anyone around my area that has even the smallest interest in photography.

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I don't know where you live, but let me suggest four places where you might look to improve your photographic skills.

1. Local photo clubs - if there are some in the area where you live, look at joining one. That can certainly get you into contact with like-minded people.

2. See if there are any local Meetup groups in your area. I signed up on the Meetup website based on a suggestion made by one of the members here and have been able to connect with a couple of local photographic meetup groups that organize shoots. One of the ones I've joined does a lot of studio work.

3. Look at joining the Photographic Society of America (PSA) and see if they can offer anything of interest to you. They do have some on-line mentoring.

4. If you live near any colleges or community colleges, some of these have photography programs and may offer evening and weekends courses and workshops. That is how I got into studio lighting at the one in town does offer a studio lighting course as well as courses in using Lightroom and Photoshop. I'm lucky that there is a small photographic school in town that takes more of a photographic art perspective and has some excellent courses not offered by the community college.

A lot of information in here, which i will go through when I get time to try and get better at PP work.

This is exactly what photo forums are all about.

Thanks Manfred

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Originally Posted by pschlute

A lot of information in here, which i will go through when I get time to try and get better at PP work.

This is exactly what photo forums are all about.

Thanks Manfred

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I totally agree with you and add my thanks to Manfred. I had just printed out the thread to guide me!:)

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Originally Posted by Manfred M

Let me start with your request and post the layers that I used to edit this image. I got rid of a couple of layers so there are a total of 14 layers in this image. Virtually all the work I do uses a curves adjustment layer plus a layer mask. I also had one saturation adjustment layer and one colour balance adjustment layer.
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Dan - I have learned a new burn and dodge technique that is a lot faster than the one I showed you some time ago. The same principles apply, but it takes a lot less time.

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Manfred, I want to join others in thanking you for the time you put into producing some very helpful and detailed posts in this thread.

I’m going to practice the process you’ve outlined in this thread but I’m curious about the process you showed Dan “some time ago.” I’ve tried searching for it with CiC’s search tool but so far haven’t found it. Is a link to the thread perhaps ready at hand?

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Originally Posted by Cantab

Manfred, I want to join others in thanking you for the time you put into producing some very helpful and detailed posts in this thread.

I’m going to practice the process you’ve outlined in this thread but I’m curious about the process you showed Dan “some time ago.” I’ve tried searching for it with CiC’s search tool but so far haven’t found it. Is a link to the thread perhaps ready at hand?

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The process is very similar to what I show here, a curves adjustment layer with the centre point pulled up for dodging and pulled down for burning. The only difference is that instead of using a selection tool to select the area to be dodged / burned I painted on the layer mask freehand, with a soft brush with flow set to around 4%; opacity is left at 100%, to achieve the effect. Using a tablet, rather than a mouse, is generally more effective with this technique as pen pressure controls the rate that the mask is built up. By setting flow rather than opacity means that material is built up every time the mouse passes over an area. With opacity, the amount laid down is limited to the set value and the left mouse button has to be pressed again to build up more opacity,

The benefits and drawbacks are similar to the methods shown here except that the control was different. I can achieve far more subtlety with this technique that is a lot closer to traditional "wet darkroom" dodging and burning. The main downside is that it is a lot slower than the method I show here.

I will sometimes combine the two methods in my work by starting with a mask to make the initial effect and then work it a bit more to tune it by brushing the mask with black or white to enhance or reduce the effect.